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warbler ID form Jeddah

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Old Wednesday 16th September 2020, 17:55   #1
ammadoux
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warbler ID form Jeddah

Help please, thanks so much.
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Old Wednesday 16th September 2020, 18:59   #2
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Upcher's?
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Old Wednesday 16th September 2020, 19:12   #3
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Looks a bit like a Blyth’s Reed Warbler to me but without checking any references/images etc I could be
wrong

I am wrong Jeddah is out of range according to maps and it doesn’t look right so I agree with Upcher’s!
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Old Wednesday 16th September 2020, 19:14   #4
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mummymonkey View Post
Upcher's?
that explain the up and down tail movement.
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Old Wednesday 16th September 2020, 20:31   #5
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I am pretty confident this isn't Blyth's Reed due to head and bill shape - it looks very Iduna-like, what means that I will see myself out because I have not the faintest clue how to tell those apart other than by song.
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Old Thursday 17th September 2020, 00:20   #6
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This warbler is strangely so familiar and yet I have to keep coming back! ....Large feet, sturdy legs, pp about half tertial length, no visible emarginations - pumping tail - Eastern Olivaceous maybe? (Would Upcher’s not show a dark centered alula contrasting with the coverts and obvious pale wing panel?)
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Old Thursday 17th September 2020, 01:07   #7
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Upcher's for me as well due to uneven tertial spacing, rather long pp (to me it seems like about 3/4 of tertials) and straight, not particularly long bill. In Eastern Olivaceus the bill is slightly down curved
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Old Thursday 17th September 2020, 06:06   #8
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(After a rash a false start!) I did agree with Upcher’s but then being so contrary, changed my mind again as general pale sandy tones made me then consider EOW - The lack of a pale panel also threw me (this is generally quite noticeable on Upcher’s) as did the uneven spacing of the primaries (larger gap between p4-5?) also the very pale centered alula (usually darker/contrasting with coverts and mantle in Upcher’s). Agree though, the pointed tip of the bill and tertial spacing is better for Upcher’s (I find the pp hard to judge from this angle but also agree it’s probably nearer to 75% than 50%).
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 15:38   #9
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Any more photos of this bird?
The pale brown iris, rounded tail shape, slightly curved shape of outer primaries, and raised tail suggest an Acrocephalus much rather than Iduna.
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 16:23   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiths View Post
Any more photos of this bird?
The pale brown iris, rounded tail shape, slightly curved shape of outer primaries, and raised tail suggest an Acrocephalus much rather than Iduna.
hmm that’s where I was going originally before being quickly talked down off the ledge ...and deleting my post,
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 17:52   #11
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiths View Post
Any more photos of this bird?
The pale brown iris, rounded tail shape, slightly curved shape of outer primaries, and raised tail suggest an Acrocephalus much rather than Iduna.
no sorry, he just briefly came to the water, he did not even take a sip.
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 17:56   #12
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could it be Basra reed, Acrocephalus griseldis ?
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 18:17   #13
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It looks mainly like a Blyth's Reed Warbler to me.
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 18:23   #14
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiths View Post
It looks mainly like a Blyth's Reed Warbler to me.
ok the next day i got some shot for what i think is Blyth reed, will upload them tomorrow i am very sleepy now.
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 18:26   #15
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Quote:
Originally Posted by smiths View Post
It looks mainly like a Blyth's Reed Warbler to me.
I’m beginning to wish I hadn’t deleted my first post (was #3) on this thread saying it looked like a Blyth’s !

(It does have a banana stance I thought but p3,4 & 5 are supposed to be emarginated - unless the feather position is obscuring the shape of the wing)
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 18:29   #16
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I might be able to reinstate the post Deb so let me know. I'll check back in a bit.
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Old Thursday 24th September 2020, 18:31   #17
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Quote:
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I might be able to reinstate the post Deb so let me know. I'll check back in a bit.
lol!
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Old Friday 25th September 2020, 00:37   #18
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A really puzzling bird and I wish there were more images. It looks at first glance like an Acro with that heavy bill, rather broad tail with slightly pointed tips and even an apparent contrasting pale iris. However, on closer examination, the undertail coverts don't look particularly long or full and the wing looks more like that of an Iduna with those tatty-looking tertials of uneven width and ragged edges to the secondaries. BRW in particular has a sleek look with very even, neat-looking rows on the wing and it's hard to imagine one looking as ragged as this. The apparent lack of emargination is puzzling - emarginated P3, 4 & 5 would be a feature of all Iduna species as well as BRW, wouldn't it?

Certainly not Basra - that's the only thing I'm sure about!
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Old Friday 25th September 2020, 04:39   #19
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another angle for the same one before it was on the 16th. the other images are for one i saw early on the 19th.
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Old Friday 25th September 2020, 08:29   #20
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ammadoux View Post
another angle for the same one before it was on the 16th.
Does this help?

It appears to me have shallow emarginations to p3 and p4 from this angle - re. the utcs, probably not the best angle to judge them, from the side at eye level or from below is better.
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Old Saturday 26th September 2020, 06:03   #21
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Does this help?

It appears to me have shallow emarginations to p3 and p4 from this angle - re. the utcs, probably not the best angle to judge them, from the side at eye level or from below is better.
There are emarginations visible, yes. Nothing much on P5 as far as I can see but BRW doesn't always have an emarginated P5 as per Grahame. Is it my imagination, or can we see a tiny P1 sticking out (I think it's missing a primary covert)? Maybe it is a Blyth's Reed after all and its tatty appearance could be due to moult. It definitely has a paler brown iris, which should rule out an Iduna.

I must say the warbler from the 19th also looks good for Blyth's.

I don't know about movements of this species in the western half of the Arabian Peninsula but a few years back my colleagues and I in the UAE discovered that BRW does pass through the UAE in small numbers between mid-August and late September. I think there have been 4-5 sightings this autumn.

Duha, could you send these images to Greg Askew?
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Old Saturday 26th September 2020, 16:45   #22
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Quote:
Originally Posted by andyb39 View Post
There are emarginations visible, yes. Nothing much on P5 as far as I can see but BRW doesn't always have an emarginated P5 as per Grahame. Is it my imagination, or can we see a tiny P1 sticking out (I think it's missing a primary covert)? Maybe it is a Blyth's Reed after all and its tatty appearance could be due to moult. It definitely has a paler brown iris, which should rule out an Iduna.

I must say the warbler from the 19th also looks good for Blyth's.

I don't know about movements of this species in the western half of the Arabian Peninsula but a few years back my colleagues and I in the UAE discovered that BRW does pass through the UAE in small numbers between mid-August and late September. I think there have been 4-5 sightings this autumn.

Duha, could you send these images to Greg Askew?
both Blyth's and Basra pass by my garden. Blyth more regular in Spring, they do appear this time not always. BRW was very very regular between Aug and Sep, but lately it became very rare.
form what i saw its a bit larger than Blyth, i mean the one on the water plate, the other one is Blyth.
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