My new Orion Stratus 8mm (1 Viewer)

Sout Fork · Mar 10, 2006

As I said in a previous post I sent back my Pentax 10mm for refund.

I still needed a high power ep so when my $300 refund was comfirmed for the Pentax I ordered the Orion Stratus 8mm. I figured what do I have to lose for $100 and Orion is very easy to deal with as far as returns are concerned?

Gave it a good work out the other day. Was observing 2 pairs of Peregrine Falcons apparently fighting it out for nesting territory on a river bluff about .5 miles away.

CONCLUSION: Easy view, good light (for 65x), excellent contrast, wide field, sharp and all this at 65x. I compared it directly to the XW zoom at 65x (8mm) and there simply was no comparision.

In fact, if memory serves, I think the Orion is superior to the Pentax in both light and contrast in spite of Orion being more powerful and having 8 elements compared to the Pentax's 7 not to mention it cost 3 times as much. I know this goes against the conventional wisdom but there you are. I can only tell you what my eyes tell me. Perhaps it's some peculiarity of my eyes but my wife made the same observation when she looked through it.

The Orion Stratus 8mm is a keeper.

Good Birding.

mmdnje · Mar 10, 2006

I also have an orion stratus 13mm and I love it. Do you use it for digiscoping and if so how do you attach the camera to it??
Jose

willemjacobusse · Mar 10, 2006

Hi guys, from reading through these posts it seems that you two are the eyepieces guru's. I am in the process of buying my first scope and its quite a challenge. The PF65 seems a good choice and i love the idea of nonproprietry eyepieces.
I live in Aruba, which has quite a warm, salty and humid climate, unforgiving to just about any material. I am also an eyeglass wearer.
This leads me to the following criteria: waterproof scope and eyepieces and long eyerelief. I have no clear idea abt whether to go for fixed or zoom eyepieces.
Purists seem to prefer fixed, but i tend towards zoom.
Adding all this up, this leads to only one zoom eyepiece it seems. So much for all the available options!
Question to you guru's: is there a mistake in my reasoning? Is waterproof really that important? Should i forget about zoom? Wld it make sense to start off with an el cheapo zoom and take it from there? If so, which one, keeping in mind the long eye relief requirement?
I noticed that Sout Fork mentions a Leupold Gold Ring scope. Looks like an impressive piece of equipment! Have you had a chance to evaluate for birding?

Sout Fork · Mar 11, 2006

mmdnje said:
I also have an orion stratus 13mm and I love it. Do you use it for digiscoping and if so how do you attach the camera to it??
Jose

No. My field kit is already complicated enough with 6 ep's, a 80mm scope and a heavy bogen tripod. Throw in food, a thermos of coffee, my Zeiss 42mm binos, rain gear etc etc and that's more than enough.

I have both the Stratus 17mm and 13mm. In my opinion one or the other, or both, of these is all that is needed for general nature study.

Sout Fork · Mar 11, 2006

willemjacobusse said:
I live in Aruba, which has quite a warm, salty and humid climate, unforgiving to just about any material. I am also an eyeglass wearer.
This leads me to the following criteria: waterproof scope and eyepieces and long eyerelief.

Off the top of my head I would say you really don't have much choice other than the Pentax 65mm with the XW14mm fixed ep.

I wouldn't worry too much about so-called waterproofness but in a humid climate such as yours the overall optical system should be well sealed and fog proof. The Pentax XW series of ep's give you that.

Speaking only for myself I would start with a really first rate general purpose fixed ep and follow up with an inexpensive throwaway Zoom if I really felt the need for a zoom. If your 50 buck zoom starts fogging up from mold and fungus after 5 years no big deal.

Good birding.

willemjacobusse · Mar 11, 2006

Thanks Sout, for your common sense approach.
Any input on the Leupold?

henry link · Mar 11, 2006

The pentax XW eyepieces are only "weather proof" to JIS 4, essentially only splash resistant, not fog proof. In a wet climate humidity will probably eventually work its way inside but might not cause any problems for a long time. The only zoom eyepiece I know about that is completely sealed so that it remains waterproof even when removed from its scope body is the current Swarovski. Both it and the Swarovski scope bodies are completely submersible. As Sout suggested, it might make sense to combine the Pentax scope body with cheap expendable eyepieces that could be replaced if moisture problems develope in them.

SUPPRESSOR · Mar 11, 2006

henry link said:
The pentax XW eyepieces are only "weather proof" to JIS 4, essentially only splash resistant, not fog proof. In a wet climate humidity will probably eventually work its way inside but might not cause any problems for a long time. The only zoom eyepiece I know about that is completely sealed so that it remains waterproof even when removed from its scope body is the current Swarovski. Both it and the Swarovski scope bodies are completely submersible. As Sout suggested, it might make sense to combine the Pentax scope body with cheap expendable eyepieces that could be replaced if moisture problems develope in them.

Henry,
The Pentax smc zoom is supposed to be waterproof and nitrogen purged.
......................................................................................peter.

henry link · Mar 11, 2006

Peter,

Yes, I see Pentax claim JIS Class 6 for the SMC Zoom. Then, curiously, they say submersible to 1 meter which would be Class 7. Class 6 is not submersible. The Swarovski is submersible to 4m which I think would be Class 8. Looking at the Pentax website just now I noticed that the XF eyepieces for the 65mm scopes are also "weather proof" to Class 4 like the XW's. These eyepieces look interesting to me. The 12 and 8.5mm have 60 degree fields and 18mm eye relief in a small, light package, somewhat similar to the TeleVue Radians.

Henry

SUPPRESSOR · Mar 11, 2006

henry link said:
Peter,

Yes, I see Pentax claim JIS Class 6 for the SMC Zoom. Then, curiously, they say submersible to 1 meter which would be Class 7. Class 6 is not submersible. The Swarovski is submersible to 4m which I think would be Class 8. Looking at the Pentax website just now I noticed that the XF eyepieces for the 65mm scopes are also "weather proof" to Class 4 like the XW's. These eyepieces look interesting to me. The 12 and 8.5mm have 60 degree fields and 18mm eye relief in a small, light package, somewhat similar to the TeleVue Radians.

Henry

Henry,
Pentax also say their scopes and eyepieces are not designed for underwater use,and should not be submerged.
As I understand it the XF eyepieces were designed with their 65mm scope in mind and amongst other things do not contain any ED elements.
........................................................................Peter.

Sout Fork · Mar 11, 2006

henry link said:
The pentax XW eyepieces are only "weather proof" to JIS 4, essentially only splash resistant, not fog proof. In a wet climate humidity will probably eventually work its way inside but might not cause any problems for a long time. The only zoom eyepiece I know about that is completely sealed so that it remains waterproof even when removed from its scope body is the current Swarovski. Both it and the Swarovski scope bodies are completely submersible. As Sout suggested, it might make sense to combine the Pentax scope body with cheap expendable eyepieces that could be replaced if moisture problems develope in them.

Weather proof, water proof, fog proof - these would seem to be rather slippery terms.

Years ago when I bought my Zeiss 7x42s Zeiss made no claims whatsoever as to their weatherproofness.

Anyway I knocked them off my boat at the marina one night into 9 feet of water.

Part of the marina fee was recovery of valuable items within the marina basin when lost by patrons. Anyway it was late in the evening and everything was closed so I had to wait about 14 hours untill I could get someone to go down and get my binos.

After they were recovered I figured a repair trip to Zeiss was in order. But by the time I got home they had dried out and the optics showed no signs whatsoever of being submerged. I never sent them in and I still use them almost daily.

Sout Fork · Mar 12, 2006

willemjacobusse said:
Thanks Sout, for your common sense approach.
Any input on the Leupold?

Another thought...

The humidity issue:
Buy whatever ep's work for you without any reference to weatherproofness.

But for overnight and long term storage put ep in one of those wide mouth 28oz plastic peanut butter jars.

Put a half inch layer of baking soda in the jar and wrap the ep in a fresh paper towel without the caps on.

A colleague of mine, who does a lot of tropical research, says this is SOP for optics in humid areas. Apparently the baking soda in combination with the dry paper acts rather like silica gel and creates within the sealed jar a very dry environment for unprotected optics. So even if a little moisture is collected on and within the lens during use it is drawn off within the jar during storage.

Something to consider in your case.

Leupold:
I only mentioned it because I know shooters use this scope and it looked like it was something the poster should consider. I have no personal experience with this scope.

willemjacobusse · Mar 12, 2006

Great trick! Thanks once again, Sout Fork!
Now for the obvious next question: what eyepiece(s) to go for?
I was looking through your eyepieces round up and tempted to go with your Orions

SUPPRESSOR · Mar 12, 2006

Sout Fork said:
Weather proof, water proof, fog proof - these would seem to be rather slippery terms.

Years ago when I bought my Zeiss 7x42s Zeiss made no claims whatsoever as to their weatherproofness.

Anyway I knocked them off my boat at the marina one night into 9 feet of water.

Part of the marina fee was recovery of valuable items within the marina basin when lost by patrons. Anyway it was late in the evening and everything was closed so I had to wait about 14 hours untill I could get someone to go down and get my binos.

After they were recovered I figured a repair trip to Zeiss was in order. But by the time I got home they had dried out and the optics showed no signs whatsoever of being submerged. I never sent them in and I still use them almost daily.

One of the finest binoculars ever made,made when cost cutting was not an option.Zeiss did not have to boast about anything,if you wanted the best in optics you bought Zeiss.After all most things in optics came from Zeiss,look how many years it has taken most of the others to catch up.Sometimes when I look through a pair Zeiss 7x42 classic I wonder if most optic makers have caught up.....still!!
fiddler.

medinabrit · Mar 12, 2006

Sout fork , i just ordered the 8 mm 13 mm & 17mm stratus EP,S because of your good word on them ,the 8 mm wont be in till mid april tho. I sold my TV 3-6 zoom to pay for them so i hope you were right . The TVzoom was really to much for my 80 & 60 pf,s & the 78 tak .
Brian.

Sout Fork · Mar 13, 2006

willemjacobusse said:
Great trick! Thanks once again, Sout Fork!
Now for the obvious next question: what eyepiece(s) to go for?
I was looking through your eyepieces round up and tempted to go with your Orions

A quick check at the Pentax website-
65mm= f6, 390mm fl.

So... 390/13=30x

I would think the Orion Stratus 13mm would hit the sweet spot on a good quality moderatly fast 65mm perfectly- wide, bright, clear with little field distortion out on the edges.

You could also consider the cheaper Orion Expanse or one of it's clones. However be aware cheaper widefields are not as well corrected for fast scopes and your 65mm at f6 is just on the edge of being "fast". Try before you buy.

Considering what you actually need rather than what you want I think you would find a well corrected widefield 30x meeting most of your needs very nicely.

However this is just one man's opinion. Trust what your eyes tell you more than the opinion of any self-appointed anonymous guru on the net.

At the end of the day it's your eyes and brain that are the most important, and idiosyncratic elements in a optical system.

Good luck.

Sout Fork · Mar 13, 2006

FIDDLER said:
One of the finest binoculars ever made,made when cost cutting was not an option.Zeiss did not have to boast about anything,if you wanted the best in optics you bought Zeiss.After all most things in optics came from Zeiss,look how many years it has taken most of the others to catch up.Sometimes when I look through a pair Zeiss 7x42 classic I wonder if most optic makers have caught up.....still!!
fiddler.

Another Zeiss story...

Some teenage kid pinched a cheap 90 buck pair of Bushnells that were sitting right next to my Zeiss at a campground. As it turned out his folks found out and made him return them with apologies.

When asked why the Bushnells rather than my field worn Zeiss it was because he was taken by the two tone color scheme, the molded finger grips, the boldly proclaimed "Superduper Wide Field" somthing or the other stamped on the barrel and the fact that it looked like a real pair of binos (porros rather than roofs).

Anyway who ever heard of "Zeiss" and "Dialyt"? Obvously some cheapo asian import from nowhere as far as he was concerned. Any fool knows Bushnell stands for first rate stuff.

A triumph of American marketing over German optical excellence.

Sout Fork · Mar 13, 2006

medinabrit said:
Sout fork , i just ordered the 8 mm 13 mm & 17mm stratus EP,S because of your good word on them ,the 8 mm wont be in till mid april tho. I sold my TV 3-6 zoom to pay for them so i hope you were right . The TVzoom was really to much for my 80 & 60 pf,s & the 78 tak .
Brian.

I hope they work out as well for you as they have for me.
Let us know.

Good Birding and Good Luck.

willemjacobusse · Mar 13, 2006

Sout Fork said:
A quick check at the Pentax website-
65mm= f6, 390mm fl.

So... 390/13=30x

I would think the Orion Stratus 13mm would hit the sweet spot on a good quality moderatly fast 65mm perfectly- wide, bright, clear with little field distortion out on the edges.

You could also consider the cheaper Orion Expanse or one of it's clones. However be aware cheaper widefields are not as well corrected for fast scopes and your 65mm at f6 is just on the edge of being "fast". Try before you buy.

Considering what you actually need rather than what you want I think you would find a well corrected widefield 30x meeting most of your needs very nicely.

However this is just one man's opinion. Trust what your eyes tell you more than the opinion of any self-appointed anonymous guru on the net.

At the end of the day it's your eyes and brain that are the most important, and idiosyncratic elements in a optical system.

Good luck.

Again, thanks for the solid advice, Sout Fork. You are continuously reaffirming your guru status. Let me know if u ever feel like a field trip to Aruba.
Talking about waterproof: for years now i have two pairs of relatively cheap binoculars, Tasco 7 X 35, one here in Aruba, the other back in Holland, no claim of being waterproof whatsoever and they are still going strong.
BTW, they are the Infocus type, and i just love never having to focus!
So maybe being waterproof isnt such a big thing after all
BTW2: what constitutes a fast scope and how does that affect eyepieces?

Sout Fork · Mar 15, 2006

willemjacobusse said:
what constitutes a fast scope and how does that affect eyepieces?

I'm not competent to get too deep into this but briefly it is a question of Focal Ratio and I quote:

"Focal Ratio
The focal ratio of an optical system is defined as the focal length divided by the aperture. So, a telescope with a focal length of 600mm and a 60mm aperture has an f-ratio or f-number, of f/10.
Telescopes with smaller ("faster") f-ratios exhibit wider fields of view and lower magnifications for a given focal length of eyepiece. F/6 or lower is considered "fast"."

A less abstract way to look at it is to imagine a objective of some given size say 100mm. Imagine a 100mm objective designed to come to focus at 1000mm and one at 500mm:

thus
1000/100=f10
and
500/100=f5

The important practical effect of this, with respect to an eyepiece, is the more acute angle of light intersecting the focal plane in the f5 scope compared to the f10 scope.

This sharp angle between the light cone, created by the objective, and the focal plane can become problematic for a eyepiece to handle correctly. Thus well corrected eyepieces for a "fast" scope typically have more elements (7-8). These additional elements, in turn, create thier own problems of reduced light transmission and contrast if not designed and coated well.

So...
An extra element here an extra element there, better and often more complex designs that make it costly to maintain quality control, more complete and better coatings, easy view, long relief, a well designed eyecup, some degree of weatherproofness, a widefield of view and pretty soon you are talking heavy cash.

I hope this helps.

My new Orion Stratus 8mm (1 Viewer)

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