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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

WO 22.5-7.5mm Zoom II on PF65 EDA II (1 Viewer)

Ya, mine is the v II. That plastic piece will just pop right out. As you tighen the ring it pushes it down and compresses it but it also sticks up out a little ways thus not allowing the ep to contact the ring. Or even get very close. The other thing that happens is the plastic ring does not allow the metal ring to screw down very far thus, the ep can only go in so far. With a modified or replacement plastic ring the ep can drop in further AND sit closer on top of the ring. So, you pick up some extra travel in two areas.
 
Well, I am now the high bidder on that one you pointed out on eBay! Wish me luck!

I just can't help with the eyepiece experimentation, now to figure out what to tell the wife when she finds out I bought another one! (fingers crossed)
 
I won it at $205. I couldn't do a last-minute swoop-in because the item ended at like 5AM my time! So I stuck in my max bid of $205 before I went to bed and woke up the next morning to find out that it had taken every dollar!

Anyway, the fact that you are now selling the XF 8.5 gives me confidence that I made a good decision. Thanks for all the input Snyd!

I'll go ahead and update the forum on my findings with the zoom once it arrives. I only have a XL 14 right now, so I have nothing to compare it to on the long end, but in the past I've tried the XF 12, XL 10.5, Vixen Zoom (8-24), Scopetronix Zoom (7-21), and Celestron Deluxe Zoom (6.5-19), all of which lost to the XL 14 in one respect or another.
 
All right, that's a good price, congrats. Ya, the XL/XW14 is really nice. It will be interesting to hear what you think of it compared to your previous zooms. My replacement zoom should be here next week. I will keep my XW 14 for a while or may try and trade it for an XW10. If I decide to just use the zoom then I may sell the XW or try and trade it for some high quality 10x25 or 8x25 pocket binos like some zeiss or something.

Ya, what did it for me as far as the 8.5 was when I was looking at some signs a little over a mile away. There was some lettering that I could not read with the 8.5 but it was crisp and legible with the zoom at 7.5 and the fov is about the same. I went back and forth between the two eyepieces a few times to rule out atmosphere, user error, etc. the zoom at 52x definitely had the advantage and I could find no disadvantage with it. the 8.5 is an excellent ep, I think the 52x compare to the 46x gave it the edge in this instance though. For me, it's what I want. It could save me some serious walking!

Later
Perry
 
So, it's here -- what a beautiful eyepiece! I've heard such great things about the UWAN's build quality, and this zoom is extremely nice.

Unfortunately, way too busy with guests/family over Thanksgiving to get any serious testing done. However, I took it out for a brief test drive and I can confirm that this zoom does NOT reach infinity focus on the PF65 version I (Snyd has the v.II).

However, as Snyd found, when I remove the little compression collar and tighten the thing all the way down, then set the eyepiece in, it does reach infinity focus no problem. It needs that extra few mm of focal travel. The Baader Hyperion zoom did NOT reach focus even with this workaround, it seems like it needs a full cm of extra travel.

In my brief test, I was extremely impressed. VERY SHARP even at max power, good sharpness almost all the way to the edge, very bright and crisp. It's too bad that I had to physically hold the thing in with the compression collar removed or it would fall out!!

Also, easy viewing, plenty of eye relief for me (I don't wear glasses). With the eyecup extended all the way out it was easy to view at lowest mag, and while eye relief decreases as you zoom in, it's still viewable easily at highest magnification even with the eyecup extended out (though you do have to shove it into your eye socket a little at higher mags).

I will say that the zoom action felt a little loose -- Snyd, have you experienced this at all? It's not too loose, but much looser than the solid smooth feel I remember from the Baader Hyperion.

I will say that, while this eyepiece feels much wider than, say, a Vixen zoom, from what I remember the Baader Zoom was even brighter and "wider" feeling. Haven't yet done an extensive A-B comparison with the XL 14.

Anyway, a fantastic eyepiece from what I can tell. If I can engineer a good solution to the compression ring issue I will keep it.

Snyd, can you please keep us updated with photos and exact descriptions as to what you used to solve the compression ring problem? Right now I can't actually use the zoom because, like I said, it will fall out of the scope without the little collar! I'm pretty handy but I've never done anything like this before, so any tips you can share you be very helpful.
 
Hi Snyd,

Can you help me out? I've scoured all my local DIY stores and can't for the life of me find:

It's a ring used to seal fittings with pvc pipe. Just a beveled piece of plastic.

I too have posted further up on the Pentax thread for help with the WO Zoom EP on a PF-80 but to no avail!

If you could be more specific about this ring and/or even negotiate one I'd sing your praises like a Lark!
 
I need to stop in at the hardware store today and pick up another one or two. I've butchered up a few trying to get them just right, but. Go to any hardware store that has plumbing supplies like Home Depot. Go to the area where they have bathroom plumbing parts. You can buy plastic the beveled rings in two sizes. Inner diameter of 1.25 or 1.5 I think. The 1.5 one works better. Just cut a section out so it will be able to crimp around the ep. When you stick it in the scope it sort of expands and then when you turn the compression ring it pushes it down into the bevel in the scope thus tightening around the ep.

I've been trying to get a hold of the parts department at Pentax to see if I can order a couple of the Pentax plastic rings. I think a guy could modify one of those and have a little better setup. I couldn't speak with anyone last week and will try again this week.

I'll try and post an actual part number and some more pics of my current mod though.
 
Hi Snyd - I went into Home Depot at lunch today and couldn't find a thing, I brought in my compression ring and described what I wanted, a flat beveled rubber or plastic ring, and three people were unable to find what I needed.

If you happen to buy yours at Home Depot, do you mind writing down the SKU or item # so I can have them look it up or even buy it online? My poor zoom is sitting there unused :)

I'll check a few more hardware stores, maybe a plumbing-specific place.
 
My replacement ep showed up today. Looks great. Today I went to Ace Hardware to the plumbing section and I found an orange bushing with a good bevel to it. It works perfect. Cost 40 cents. I bought 2. I'll post a pic of it tomorrow. The orange one works much better than the white/clear plastic ones. I also put a small O ring on the eyepiece barrel itself. This 1 dollar modification holds the eyepiece in nice and snug and gives full focus. I'll post pics of it all tomorrow. I don't feel like it's a hack job modification which is what I didn't want.

It looks like I found my setup. Might even sell the XW14 instead of trying to trade it for an XW10. Sold the XF 8.5.

Perry
 
Snyd - do you happen to still have the receipt or packaging and could scare up a SKU or item number from Ace Hardware? If your mod is clean and works well, I'd love to get the exact same item, and Home Depot was a no-go.

Did you put the o-ring on the eyepiece barrel so it would fit soft-and-snug up on top of the modified compression ring? I'm definitely curious to see the photos!

I'll cruise by an Ace today and see if I can find something. Thanks again for your pioneering work in this field :)
 
OK, went by Ace and found something! Not the orange bushing that you describe Snyd, but a clear beveled plastic washer. Maybe that's the first one that you described?

It's called a "Poly Washer":

The SKU for the 1 1/4 inch plastic washer is #45219
The SKU for the 1 1/2 inch plastic washer is #45220

It's not on the main website but a google search of "Ace SKU 45219" turned up this:
http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1wfdklrapjvvdh45e0noe445)/ProductDetails.aspx?SKU=45219


I found that the 1 1/2 inch one gave a nicer fit, but the problem was the thickness of the plastic didn't allow the eyepiece to drop all the way in, left maybe a millimeter or two gap above the compression ring that made it just BARELY reach infinity focus. The 1 1/4 inch washer, however, was just thin enough that I gained that extra mm back and I have a tiny bit of leeway at infinity focus.

Snyd, if you can find the SKU for that orange bushing that you say works better that would be nice, just to try something else.

Thanks again, this is fun! Can't wait to take the scope out now and put the new zoom through its paces with a morning of sea-watching...
 
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Ya, I know what you mean. I have one that was in my junk drawer that is a little smaller that allowed it to drop in further but didn't allow the ring to tighten up very tight. But, the orange ones are perfect. You can turn the focuser and achieve focus and be able to keep turning and go back out of focus. It gives plenty of adjustment. The bevel is a full bevel as opposed to the little bit of vertical and then the bevel. It allows the compression ring to be screwed all the way down and also secure the ep. I just picked up the other one they had. They are in the little "bulk" bins along with lots of other o-rings. If you can't find one pm me your address and I'll mail you one of the ones I have.
 
Thx for the URL eitanaltman and congrats on your perseverance Snyd.

That's a pretty comprehensive selection of washers and 'o' rings ACE have in stock, an Alladins cave compared to anything I've seen this side 'o' the Atlantic.

That orange bushing has got to be in here somewhere:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1...px?CommodityGroupId=40&MerchandiseClassId=404

Could it be this one:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1...geImage.aspx?SKU=42417&Image=42417_061018.jpg

Uhmm, these look good:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1...age.aspx?SKU=4138988&Image=4138988_061019.jpg

Boggle!
 
Thx for the URL eitanaltman and congrats on your perseverance Snyd.


Could it be this one:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1...geImage.aspx?SKU=42417&Image=42417_061018.jpg

Uhmm, these look good:

http://www.acehardwareoutlet.com/(1...age.aspx?SKU=4138988&Image=4138988_061019.jpg

Boggle!

That orange one looks like it. I just measured the one I have. All dimensions are the same. It's a softer rubber as opposed to the harder plastic white/clear ones.

Those black ones are too thick. I saw them at the store.


Perry
 
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Some more reports:

After successfully creating a new compression ring to hold the WO Zoom in place, I did some extensive seawatching this weekend. My impression was very positive -- this is an excellent, sharp eyepiece. It doesn't give the wide, immersive feel of my XL 14, but was very comfortable when viewing at the wide end and easy to zoom in.

I mentioned before that the zoom action felt a little loose to me, at least looser than some other zooms I've tried. I actually really like this now -- while seawatching, it is really nice to be able to scan at the wide end and then lightly zoom with one finger while tracking a bird. Other zooms require you to grab firmly and rotate, which shakes the scope more. The WO Zoom is definitely still smooth, it just happens to require very little pressure to move the zoom ring.

I didn't do any A/B tests with the XL 14, that will come this week. I will say that the WO Zoom felt crisp and sharp, and very neutral in terms of color cast. Eye placement is very forgiving, more so than the XL. This is a comfortable eyepiece to use, I find it to be MUCH more comfortable than any other zoom I'm tried on this scope (though not as nice as the Zeiss/Swaro zooms or the new Kowa). Absolutely blows away the Pentax zoom I tried briefly a couple of weeks ago, which was massive, stiff to zoom, and not very fun to look through.

I tested edge sharpness by focusing on a distant bird or sign and moving the scope around -- sharpness stayed strong all the way to about 20% from the edge, where there is a little "halo" or "coma" effect at the very outer edge.

I did find that the "sweet spot" of the PF-65/WO Zoom combination seems to be from 20mm to 10mm (20x to 40x magnification). The most comfortable area for scanning/viewing -- the "sweet spot" of the "sweet spot" so to speak -- was around 16mm to 13mm (25x to 30x). This is consistent with my past eyepiece experience -- the Pentax PF-65mm is happiest right at 25x to 30x for overall use.

I actually found that 22.5 is too wide -- I could see the outline of the "notch" in the focuser tube barrel when pulled all the way out! A tiny tweak of the zoom to 20mm or so cured that, but I found I never used the zoom at the widest setting.

I would also do tests where I would zoom all the way to 7.5mm (max zoom) on a bird, and then back it out slowly until I felt the image was comfortable and crisp. Then, I would look and see what zoom setting I ended up at -- it was always a little bit to the right of the "12" on the barrel, meaning about 10mm or so (i.e. 35x to 40x).

I did a similar test starting at the wide end, and then slowly zooming until I thought that I was losing brightness/clarity. Here I usually ended up at the "12" or a little bit to the left (i.e. 30x to 35x). Again, this seems to confirm my overall experience that it's when you approach 40x and above that things start to break down a bit.

Overall I found little reduction in clarity/brightness between 20x and 40x, but above 40x you start to get into the problems of magnifying air distortion etc. (this occurs with any scope at distance I've found). Anything above 40x is too much power for panning/movement because it magnifies the vibrations so much.

However, when the scope was held still I could effectively zoom all the way to 7.5 to get full power. I had a nice little test where I was looking for a distant female Black Scoter in with some Surf Scoters, and was alongside a friend using a new Swaro 80mm HD. When we found the bird, he zoomed all the way in to 60x and I was able to compare the big Swaro at 60x to my little Pentax at 52x.

While the 80mm Swaro was obviously a little bit brighter and crisper looking at this little duck about 1 mile away, the difference was not huge. A tiny nudge back from 7.5mm (bumping magnification down to the high 40's from 52x) made a big difference in terms of sharpness and clarity -- 52x is definitely pushing the optical limits a bit. (Not that this scope can't handle the resolution -- if you zoom to 52x on an object that is only 25 feet away, it is perfectly clear. It's just that at this magnification you are really going to have trouble seeing through all the atmosphere between you and a distant bird.)

Tests like these make me happy and allay any "buyers remorse" or "scope envy" I may get. Again, the Swaro was a little better, but certainly not $2000+ better versus the $650 or so I spent on my PF-65ED + WO Zoom combo. If you have the money, and need a dedicated scope for sea-watching or real demanding conditions, the big guns Zeiss 85mm, Leica 78mm, or Swaro 80mm are still better to extract that last drop of brightness and resolution. But again, the difference is not THAT big at all. Honestly, I might take the Nikon 82ED with it's ability to zoom to 75x over any of them, having seen first-hand the difference it can make on a friend's scope looking at a very distant bird.

The only scope I've seen which really made me go "WOW" was the new Kowa 883. Wow. A birding pal just got one and it is unbelievable, but then again it's close to $3000 when all is said and done...
 
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Nice write up eitanaltman. I concur. The PF65 and WO zoom is a nice combo. My EDA II and this zoom set me back about $725.00. 1000 to 1500 less than a big 3 65mm scope. That's a HUGE price difference for comparable optics for most people in most situations.

With the ease of turning the zoom one can turn the zoom and focuser at the same time. I too can see the notch at 22.5 and yes, 12mm or so seems like the sweet spot, huh, no wonder PENTAX designed the XF12 and XF 8.5 for these scopes. but I honestly find the image at 52X pretty darn nice, crisp and detailed. Maybe the II makes a difference at higher power? Don't you have the first version? I'm not seeing any "halo" at the edges. Pentax claims less CA and better "performance" with version II. Maybe it's true?

Now for my next round fun....the XW 10! I just need to either trade my XW14 for one or sell it and buy an XW 10. Just to see..... :D
 
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Well, CA and other aberrations definitely get worse at higher mags, so maybe the improved ED II version does make a difference at high (i.e. more than 40x) mags. The "halo" I see is at the very edge of the field, not really a problem since I'm never really looking at the extreme edge, but it's definitely there.

It is a great combo though, I am very happy. I can't wait to do some A/B tests between the WO Zoom and my XL 14 -- chances are I'll be selling the XL however. My impression is that the WO Zoom may actually be a little sharper than the XL, but I'll see how the tests go.

Have you tried posting your XW 14 at astromart.com's classifieds? You should be able to work out a trade or at least sell it -- nice condition XW's go for $250 to $270 shipped there.

I have heard that the XW 10 is really tricky with eye placement. One of the guys on this board switched to Orion Stratus because of this issue, and I've heard it echoed over at astro forums as well.
 
Sorry to awaken a dormant thread, but I had a question for you, Perry or eitanaltman:

When you replace the original ring with your DIY compression ring, what happens to your ability to use other eyepieces (specifically interested in the Orion Stratus)? Do they focus properly with this new ring as well?

Thanks,
Vandit
 
The DIY compression ring works fine on other ep's also. You should be able to find something at a local hardware store, just look for a 1 1/4" or 1 1/2" plastic/rubber poly washer.
 
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