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The next Alpha technology - electronics will be the next frontier for alpha glass

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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 02:30   #26
NDhunter
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Sancho, you speak for many that are regular posters and experienced binocular users. I have a sense
and can tell this is a veteran crowd that post on here, many are happy with quality optics at all price ranges
and just like things the way they are.
I tried a Canon IS binocular some months ago, I did not comment on it, as I did not want to condemn it,
but it was not anything I was going to want or use. It was very unwieldy and I can see why Canon has not had
any traction or sales in binoculars.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 08:16   #27
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Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, a push with your pinky to capture a 172 mp hyper-resolution image, and an instant read-out available across the bottom of your view telling you the sub-species and sex of the bird the on-board software just scanned, all the while your image is glassed, or viewed in such a high resolution electronic viewfinderday.
And a one year warranty for electronic parts?
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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 08:34   #28
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And a one year warranty for electronic parts?

And with a 5 year (maximum) availability of said electronic parts

Cheers.
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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 13:56   #29
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Huh? How many boomers are in the workforce? 64-74 years old? 1945-1955.
It's not their world, it's subsequent generation's world. Do what you want.
You've got the baby boom generation off a bit. It's 1946-1964...
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Baby_boomers


As a boomer, I'm still in the workforce. I don't want electronics in my bins. Laser rangefinding technology has long been available in Leica binoculars. I've avoided owning a pair, and carry a separate Leica rangefinder if I need it.
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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 19:37   #30
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You've got the baby boom generation off a bit. It's 1946-1964...
I guess I stand corrected. My understanding for all these years was that Boomers were born in the first decade after WWII.

Still, "Boomers" who missed the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, didn't experience the JFK assassination, or Martin Luther King and RFK assassinations, weren't given drills to dive under your desk in school for when the A Bomb goes off, the Sunday casualty reports from the Vietnam War, didn't have to register for the draft, the Woodstock period, Love Ins, Watergate, weren't driving during the Iran oil embargo, and came of age during disco just doesn't sound like the same generation. At all.
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Old Tuesday 12th November 2019, 19:59   #31
Sancho
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Originally Posted by NDhunter View Post
Sancho, you speak for many that are regular posters and experienced binocular users. I have a sense
and can tell this is a veteran crowd that post on here, many are happy with quality optics at all price ranges
and just like things the way they are.
I tried a Canon IS binocular some months ago, I did not comment on it, as I did not want to condemn it,
but it was not anything I was going to want or use. It was very unwieldy and I can see why Canon has not had
any traction or sales in binoculars.

Jerry
Hi Jerry!
I actually have a pair if IS (I've owned them all except 18x50 at some stage). But they are a speciality item, I use them for seawatching. On a more general note, I've been haunting this forum for the best part of two decades, and the advent of amazing digital optics has been oft-heralded, but never really happened. Not even general-use IS, never mind digitally-enhanced viewing with embedded ID and recording. Any attempts to combine a viewing device with digi-recording have been laughable cheap junk, or one Zeiss scope that flopped miserably. How many birders of any generation have bought it?
And the technology is definitely available to do it, to combine all three in one device (emhanced viewing, recording, ID). It's just that there's no demand, or even requirement. ID-ing with one's own cerebral capabilities is the whole point of the exercise...with, occasionally, a Little Help From One's Friends, and a camera.
I think we have reached Peak Binocular, and just because something can be done with more complicated technology, it doesn't make the job simpler or represent any meaningful improvement. Like the guy's self-lacing shoes in the movie 'Back to the Future'. It can be done, but no-one needs or wants it.
It would be interesting to do a search here and on CN to see how many times in the last twenty years the Coming of digi-binos has been predicted.

P.S.- I dislike the whole marketing segregation of currently-surviving humanity into categories like 'Boomers', 'Millenials' etc. I was born in 1962, I teach kids aged 12 to 18, we're pretty much the same species, and future archaeologists will dig up our fossilised thumb bones or whatever and give us all the same scientific name. Meanwhile, because I look at BF and an Irish bird-sighting website, the Internet has been sending me adverts for Talking Caged Parrots. So much for clever technology.

Last edited by Sancho : Tuesday 12th November 2019 at 23:23.
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 00:04   #32
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I don't think you are wrong about the binocular device that you are describing. All the technology you list exists in one form or another. It's just about improving and putting the pieces together now. I mean, Swarovski did debut a prototype of a monocular with a built-in camera just a few months ago. Who knows if it will ever go into production, but I bet there would be a market for it - especially if the camera were incorporated into binoculars instead. And range finders and image stabilization have been around for a long time. And image recognition software is getting pretty good now. And Bluetooth is already good. And it is hard to imagine how binoculars could be improved significantly over the current alpha class.

As far as the glasses/scope combo, again the technology exists already it would just be about putting it together.

An example of this type of thing already exists in rifle scopes. Check out the Swarovski dS scope. With a single click of a button, the scope ranges the target, then places illuminated crosshairs at the correct position accounting for the ballistics of the gun that it is mounted to and the ammunition that gun is shooting. All that's missing is the wind calculation.

I just don't think these electronic viewers will take over the market. If anything they will exist in parallel with traditional optics. I think I will always want something that resembles modern binoculars and scopes over what you describe, and I'm a millennial. Who knows though, maybe you're right.

Also, your timeline strikes me as unrealistically aggressive.
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 04:26   #33
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I don't think you are wrong about the binocular device that you are describing. All the technology you list exists in one form or another. It's just about improving and putting the pieces together now. I mean, Swarovski did debut a prototype of a monocular with a built-in camera just a few months ago. Who knows if it will ever go into production, but I bet there would be a market for it - especially if the camera were incorporated into binoculars instead. And range finders and image stabilization have been around for a long time. And image recognition software is getting pretty good now. And Bluetooth is already good. And it is hard to imagine how binoculars could be improved significantly over the current alpha class.

As far as the glasses/scope combo, again the technology exists already it would just be about putting it together.

An example of this type of thing already exists in rifle scopes. Check out the Swarovski dS scope. With a single click of a button, the scope ranges the target, then places illuminated crosshairs at the correct position accounting for the ballistics of the gun that it is mounted to and the ammunition that gun is shooting. All that's missing is the wind calculation.

I just don't think these electronic viewers will take over the market. If anything they will exist in parallel with traditional optics. I think I will always want something that resembles modern binoculars and scopes over what you describe, and I'm a millennial. Who knows though, maybe you're right.

Also, your timeline strikes me as unrealistically aggressive.
Technology may easily get beyond physiology. But what then? So much of what is touted these days as making a binocular ... better is demonstrably beyond what the average observer can see or even cares about. Thus, we push reason into the realm of the nitnoid.

Today's world is full of knowledge but is running on empty when it comes to wisdom.

Knowledge teaches us that a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. But it is wisdom that teaches us not to put it into a fruit salad.

Bill
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 07:53   #34
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Knowledge teaches us that a tomato is a fruit, not a vegetable. But it is wisdom that teaches us not to put it into a fruit salad.

Bill
If only that same wisdom would keep pineapple off pizza.........

Lee

PS Nice line Bill!
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 08:50   #35
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As others have said bridge cameras (super zooms) already get used as spotting scopes that take pictures and video. They're image stabilised, some aren't too heavy and some pack quite small. The optics are very good on some.

I too would like to see duel EVFs built into one to get an enhanced emersive view. That one step with ergonomic design is all that's needed. The result wouldn't compete with regular binoculars, but would just allow enhanced viewing through the camera and be more comfy than 1 EVF. Good for open areas especially shorelines where spotting scopes are traditionally used.

So leave binoculars alone, but enhance already tech-heavy cameras to allow binocular viewing.
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 12:29   #36
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If only that same wisdom would keep pineapple off pizza.........
Blasphemer !!!
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 12:31   #37
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Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, a push with your pinky to capture a 172 mp hyper-resolution image, and an instant read-out available across the bottom of your view telling you the sub-species and sex of the bird the on-board software just scanned, all the while your image is glassed, or viewed in such a high resolution electronic viewfinder human eyes have long lost the ability to tell the difference. And for the really high magnifications, you’re just wearing an 8 oz. pair of glasses or goggles while the glass itself is on a silent motorized tripod next to you tracking everywhere you look and transmitting wirelessly real-time breathtaking imagery to your glasses.

Because of Boomer’s reluctance to adopt new technology, Boomer’s in the labor force are tamping down the economy’s overall productivity, according to a study by Moody's Analytics.. Published 11-7-19, reported by USA Today. Arguably we evidenced this a little in a discussion about future Duovid design when the cry went out twice for no electronics in future Duovid designs. But that’s incidental and not the,point.

Electronics must be and will eventually be the next frontier for alpha glass, when there is a market and when the technology is more than novel and truly revolutionizes the experience, most will never look back. This might be a part of drawing in the next generation of birders.
I have seen an article seven years ago, that the next big thing with optics will be to incorporate electronics, IS, etc. in the next five years. :-) Nothing happened. The explanation is quite easy, that is my opinion: those equipments are too expensive to spread widely. Just check, what is about new Zeiss scopes, Nikon IS scopes, older Zeiss photoscope model, or how many SF will you see while birding out, etc.
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 13:10   #38
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The whole digital binocular thing has already been and gone
https://www.sony.com.au/electronics/...specifications

Sensors in the latest mobile phones are about 3 times larger than this. Really you would be looking at two lenses around the size of that on the Sony RX 10 IV for 0.5x to 12x zoom. A little bit unwieldy to hold.
The top spec EVF's now offer twice the resolution (or somewhat less than that if you want a decent more relaxing framerate). There is still further to go.
You could put together quite a reasonable outfit with today's tech. Would make Alpha's seem cheap though .....

With Phablets now around 6" in height I'm waiting for some smart cookie to put 3 or 4 lenses at either end for some pretty nifty 3D effect binocular vision on a 4K display screen.

That should bring the horse and buggy drivers out of the woodwork again !






Chosun
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 14:38   #39
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I guess I stand corrected. My understanding for all these years was that Boomers were born in the first decade after WWII.

Still, "Boomers" who missed the Beatles on Ed Sullivan, didn't experience the JFK assassination, or Martin Luther King and RFK assassinations, weren't given drills to dive under your desk in school for when the A Bomb goes off, the Sunday casualty reports from the Vietnam War, didn't have to register for the draft, the Woodstock period, Love Ins, Watergate, weren't driving during the Iran oil embargo, and came of age during disco just doesn't sound like the same generation. At all.
Boomers are the generation born to the WW2 generation, pure and simple. It has nothing to do with sentimental cultural touchstones.
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 16:06   #40
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snipped------

That should bring the horse and buggy drivers out of the woodwork again !






Chosun
Aaaaaw nobody loves us anymore
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 16:18   #41
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If only that same wisdom would keep pineapple off pizza.........

Lee

PS Nice line Bill!
Thanks, Lee:

I saw my first pizza with pineapple shortly after moving to the “left” coast. I thought, “What idiot wants pineapple on his pizza?” Not long after that, I was helping a friend move and his wife had bought boxes on Hawaiian pizza. I was hungry, so I decided to choke one down. Humm? ‘Interesting combination of flavors. Many times since, I’ve ordered one; I find it mild on the belly. At my age, that’s a good thing.

I went to a nice restaurant near the locks in Seattle and found they put glazed walnuts on their salad. once again, negative thoughts. After that, when I would go to a steakhouse I would ask the server if they served anything with glazed walnuts. if they replied “yes,” I would ask that they put some on my salad.

Sometimes, we should try new things—key word ... TRY.

Bill
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 16:33   #42
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Blasphemer !!!
Beware false prophets and false gods.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the pineapple-free pizza, and it was good.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 21:38   #43
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I can't deny I would love to put on a pair of goggles like the one described by the original poster. I wouldn't need or even really want the identification features, but being able to see, with the field of view of your own natural eyesight, a stabillized image of the same quality that current alphas give you, with selected targets zoomable even to say just 20x or so ... would be unbelievably amazing. It'd be the closest thing to seeing like a peregrine (except they have two foveas per eye, so can track more than one target!).

Unfortunately a lot of the tech has simply not reached that level of maturity. Even IS, which is relatively most advanced, has (arguably) not yet been packaged into something with the ergonomics, weather resistance and longevity that serious birders demand. The difficulties in create an integrated package such as dwever describes, that meets those requirements, are considerable - I'd hesitate to say they are insurmountable, but I'm not sure many of us will live to see something like that become reasonably affordable. I hope I'm wrong though!

I'd be happy just for IS to be improved in compactness and durability, and for the possibilities of technologies like plastics and metalenses to be properly explored. I personally think it would be great if there were breakthroughs in technology such that binoculars priced like today's Aculons or Kowa YFs could offer alpha or near alpha performance.

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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 22:29   #44
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Boomers are the generation born to the WW2 generation, pure and simple. It has nothing to do with sentimental cultural touchstones.
I'm completely confused. My parents were born in the twenties/early thirties. I was born in 1962. What am I? We didn't have a post-WWII 'Baby Boom', we had a continuous baby boom for hundreds of years (thanks to RC Church) until birth control became legal in the 1980's. And my kids are in their teens/early twenties. Is all the generational categorisation a scam to create fault lines where none existed, in order to distract us from the 'real' fault lines?
Like, divide/conquer, or set the indigenous tribes against each other?
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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 23:18   #45
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Sancho:
As mentioned above the US baby boom was from 1946-1964, and this was a post period of WWII.

There was a large population growth then, when servicemen returned from war. I was born in 1955
after the Korean war, my father was a veteran of that war.
So, not all countries have a similar baby boom as in the USA.

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Old Wednesday 13th November 2019, 23:54   #46
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Thank you very much for that clarification, Jerry...you are a gentleman. So, if I were Anerican, I would indeed be a late baby-boomer. And because our babies boomed constantly, many of them indeed became Americans (lots of my cousins ending up in Queens). Kids I teach now who I think are 'millennials' are far more tolerant and understanding than we were, but also seem far more anxious, or at least express their anxieties more. Things change so quickly nowadays, though, i fear they will be 'very old' by the time they're twenty-five!!!
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Old Thursday 14th November 2019, 04:47   #47
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I'm completely confused. My parents were born in the twenties/early thirties. I was born in 1962. What am I? We didn't have a post-WWII 'Baby Boom', we had a continuous baby boom for hundreds of years (thanks to RC Church) until birth control became legal in the 1980's. And my kids are in their teens/early twenties. Is all the generational categorisation a scam to create fault lines where none existed, in order to distract us from the 'real' fault lines?
Like, divide/conquer, or set the indigenous tribes against each other?

Hello Sancho,

I like your thought processes.

The general population has always been brainwashed and distracted from the real issues facing this world.

Independent thinking has always been discouraged , fear of non-acceptance is a very powerful driver.

Sorry for the off-topic thoughts.

Cheers.
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Old Thursday 14th November 2019, 07:54   #48
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[quote=dwever;3917514]Imagine in 2026 your Alpha Leica’s have instant hyper accurate AF, advanced multi-axis image stabilization, ...

For binos only two (rotational) axes of stabilisation (out of the six freedoms physics defines movement within space) are fully sufficient for their stabilisation. All other rotational or translatorial movements being irrelevant.

In Leicas museum at Wetzlar there is a prototype of a stabilised bino, the further development of which got stopped by the then top management. This gives an idea, how innovative this industry might be...

HW
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Old Thursday 14th November 2019, 08:18   #49
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Beware false prophets and false gods.

Mine eyes have seen the glory of the pineapple-free pizza, and it was good.

Lee
Lee,

You should take a leaf out of Bill's book (not literally ! that would be blasphemy ! :)

Believe only 1/10th of what you hear, half of what you see, but go to town with what your belly tells you !

For I have supped of the Holy pineapple - and yay verily it was good ! Thou shouldeth get off ye horse and buggy and get on board the pineapple express lest thou doth turn into a pillar of salt !




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Old Thursday 14th November 2019, 09:34   #50
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Lee,

Believe only 1/10th of what you hear, half of what you see

Chosun
Hmmm. I think I covered this with 'beware of false prophets'.

I like duck with orange or apple sauces. I like beef or lamb with mango sauce.
But pineapple on pizza does not light my bonfire, tickle my tonsils or send shivers of delight up and down my anything.

Lee
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