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ATX - ATS difference

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Old Saturday 9th March 2019, 21:14   #1
luckmurph
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ATX - ATS difference

Hi all, I'm still trying to choose a scope!!
Is the difference in quality worth the extra money between the ATX85 and ATS80?
I really can't see that i would change modules around so the only advantage to me unless there was a real difference in optical clarity!? is that it would be easier to carry around ie breaks down into 2 smaller parts!

Thanks
Andy

Last edited by luckmurph : Saturday 9th March 2019 at 21:33.
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Old Saturday 9th March 2019, 21:44   #2
Torview
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Hi Andy, as I understand it the ATX was designed for digiscoping, also it is a Swarovision flat field optic, you can add the BTX, use a 1.7x extender (you can stack these also), and it has better eye relief.

However the ATS is still a super clean design with great optics, love mine.
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Old Sunday 10th March 2019, 01:19   #3
John A Roberts
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While not directly addressing the OP’s quality concerns . . .

When the ATX and STX were introduced in 2012, the initial brochure contained information including:
description of features, tech data (including transmission figures) and digital connection options

Usefully, it also included the same info for the ATS and STS HD’s

It doesn't seem to be available on Swarovski’s current list of brochures
However, it can still be downloaded using this link - the connection directly opens the PDF which is 3.8 MB
https://aa.swarovskioptik.com/downlo...US/ATX_STX.pdf


John

Last edited by John A Roberts : Sunday 10th March 2019 at 03:39.
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Old Sunday 10th March 2019, 16:07   #4
Tringa45
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
Hi Andy, as I understand it the ATX was designed for digiscoping, also it is a Swarovision flat field optic, you can add the BTX, use a 1.7x extender (you can stack these also), and it has better eye relief.
Field flatness and eye relief are dependant on the eyepiece design. Scope eyepieces are less subject to the dimensional, weight, optical and cost restrictions of binocular yepieces. There are now only two zooms available for the ATS (and only one for the ATX) but the 30x W on my ATM 65HD has 20 mm eye relief, 65° Afov, and is effectively free of distotion, field curvature and astigmatism. I have not experienced its equal in any birding optics, although the 25-60x TE11-WZ zoom on my Kowa 883 gets close.

Is the aluminium alloy housing on the ATS 80 and the magnesim alloy housing on the ATX 85 a quality difference? The ATS 80 is still lighter though and a friend prefers his because he has doubts about the bayonet on the ATX, which caused problems on some early samples. He uses a 5 mm Vixen LVW with an astro adapter for 92x when he wants to read rings.

I don't see any reason why a good ATS 80 should be visibly inferior to an ATX 85. I measured the resolution of my ATM 65HD (the intermediate model with magnesium housing but optically identical to the ATS 65) at 1.78 arcseconds. That is diffraction limited and it doesn't (can't) get any better than that.

John
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Old Sunday 10th March 2019, 21:52   #5
John A Roberts
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Picking up on a couple of points in John’s post

I went looking for information on the 30x eyepiece, and found it in the 2005 catalogue
As I couldn’t reduce the dimensions of the table sufficiently to load as a JPEG, while retaining enough detail, I’ve loaded it as a PDF
And since I went the PDF route, I’ve also included the main page about the ATS/STS telescopes

Interestingly, the eyepieces produce the same magnification whether used on the CTS draw tube or the fixed body models, as all the telescopes have the same 460 mm focal length
And the S designation indicates that they are the later waterproof versions


In relation to ATS/STS and ATM/STM history and choices
Apart from cosmetic changes, the only known difference is the use of magnesium alloy rather than aluminium alloy for the main body shell,
and of course lens coatings would have been progressively updated as is Swarovski’s standard practice

All models are numbered in the same sequence, with the same prefix:
- the original ATS/STS series was from 2002 to 2009 (the earliest I’ve observed is #U7207 06132, with numbering having started at 6k; and the last #U7923 85182)
- the ATM/STM series was from 2009 to 2012 (observed from #U7904 82084 to #U8215 23737)
- then the ATS/STS series recommenced in late 2011 (first observed #U8147 20999)

The reason for the change from M back to S seems to have been to provide greater differentiation between the conventional ATS/STS line and the new modular ATX/STX line introduced in 2012,
both in relation to features and price


John

p.s. for those interested, the full 2005 Hunting catalogue can still be found here. It's 7.4 MB, and there is a choice of English, German and Russian language versions
http://www.hoferwaffen.com/images/optics/
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Specifications 2005 catalogue.pdf (623.7 KB, 17 views)
File Type: pdf ATS & STS 2005 catalogue.pdf (990.8 KB, 14 views)

Last edited by John A Roberts : Sunday 10th March 2019 at 22:34.
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Old Monday 11th March 2019, 09:08   #6
Vespobuteo
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckmurph View Post
Hi all, I'm still trying to choose a scope!!
Is the difference in quality worth the extra money between the ATX85 and ATS80?
I really can't see that i would change modules around so the only advantage to me unless there was a real difference in optical clarity!? is that it would be easier to carry around ie breaks down into 2 smaller parts!

Thanks
Andy
The price difference might be a bit hard to motivate if you don't intend to get the 95mm module and the bayonet-mount will obviously be a "feature" you pay for but don't use.

Overall the ATX85 has slightly better optics than the ATS80 in all aspects. A bit better color balance and edge sharpness and also slightly less CA. The improvements might be considered "minor" by the "average" user though, but it's there if you really look for it.

You also get 25-60x WA instead of 25-50x WA if you intend to use the wide-angle 25-50x zoom on the ATS80. The older 20-60x zoom has narrower AFOV/FOV and I would not recommend it, but some seems to prefer it for the larger exit pupil at 20x and higher max magnification. Personally I prefer larger AFOV for a more immersive view.

But that said, the ATS80 is still a very good scope for the money. And it's a bit lighter as well.

The ATS and ATX eye pieces are quite differently designed physically and one of them might fit your eye sockets better. The ATX EP is wider and that might not be optimal for all users.

With the eye-glass friendly special eye cup I think that the ATX might offer at bit more eye relief than the ATS. It could be mitigated by the wider eye piece though, but you would have to try what works best for you.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=293595

The focus and zoom ring positions and feel might affect your choice as well.

Both the ATX and ATS are great scopes that most users would be happy with I think.

Good luck with your choice!
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Old Monday 11th March 2019, 09:53   #7
horukuru
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Both are good. The ATX has wider fov on the eyepiece which helps a lot if you do digiscoping. Plus it is also an added bonus if you wanted to use different objective modules in the future.
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Old Monday 11th March 2019, 21:06   #8
luckmurph
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Thanks all for your kind thoughts much appreciated, i'm arranging to visit a supplier to try the following

ATX 85. ATS 80. Leica APO Televid 82 & Kowa 883

Hopefully once I've tried them side by side i will be able to make my choice, i suppose it comes down to personal preference!!
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Old Friday 3rd May 2019, 20:14   #9
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Quote:
Originally Posted by John A Roberts View Post
.........….Usefully, it also included the same info for the ATS and STS HD’s

........However, it can still be downloaded using this link - the connection directly opens the PDF which is 3.8 MB
https://aa.swarovskioptik.com/downlo...US/ATX_STX.pdf


John
Thanks John! Most helpful.
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Old Friday 3rd May 2019, 20:16   #10
Swissboy
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Quote:
Originally Posted by luckmurph View Post
............ATX 85. ATS 80. Leica APO Televid 82 & Kowa 883

Hopefully once I've tried them side by side i will be able to make my choice, i suppose it comes down to personal preference!!
Let us know about your decision and the reasons for it.
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