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Ats 65

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Old Monday 3rd September 2018, 08:24   #1
pimpelmees
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Ats 65

is it still a good choice to buy this one
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Old Monday 3rd September 2018, 10:11   #2
kabsetz
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If you want a 65 mm scope and don't want to spend on the ATX option of having a bigger front end later, then yes.

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Old Monday 3rd September 2018, 12:16   #3
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Mine is still fine. Just serviced by Swaro and as good as new.
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Old Monday 3rd September 2018, 13:41   #4
Tringa45
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Originally Posted by pimpelmees View Post
is it still a good choice to buy this one
Absolutely!
Last year I bought a Kowa 883, which was intended as a replacement for my ATM 65HD (optically same as ATS 65) with 30x W. However, when I am going to be carrying the scope for longer distances and don't need the additional magnification of the Kowa, I still use the Swaro and can't bring myself to part with it.
Within its size limitations I have not experienced a scope or binocular which comes so close to optical perfection as the ATM 65 with 30x W. All in all, it's just the best 65 mm birding scope ever made.
The ATX 65 is far too heavy (and expensive) and IMO only justifiable as a travel alternative if one already has the ATX 85 or ATX 95.

John
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Old Tuesday 4th September 2018, 14:40   #5
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Exactly the same story with me. Bought the 883, intended to sell the ATS65, then - just couldn't. Now very glad i didn't having survived a temporary financial meltdown. It's still my 'summer scope' for long days on foot, and when air travel is involved. A great piece of kit - haven't really seen better at the size and weight.
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Old Tuesday 4th September 2018, 17:56   #6
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And Paddy, I think we'd agree that no criticism of the 883 is implied. It's just that the little 65 mm Swaro performs very nearly as well under most circumstances. Even Gerald Dobler, the development team leader for the Zeiss Harpia, suggested in his interview with Troubador that 65 mm scopes were ideal for magnifications up to around 40x.
Although the Kowa will sustain very high magnifications with an extender or astro eyepieces (the Swaro too) under ideal conditions, I find that atmospherics mostly limit practical magnifications to 50x or less.

John
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Old Tuesday 4th September 2018, 21:30   #7
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The ATS/ATM in 65mm in HD incarnation is as good as the ATX 65mm in my opinion.

I've spent much of last month comparing the ATX 65mm with my ATM 65mm HD with the 25-50x e/p. The little ATM is better, without question. I've tried like heck to find something optically better about the ATX, but damned if I can. That's the unbiased truth. I own both scopes.
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Old Wednesday 5th September 2018, 08:22   #8
paddy7
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And Paddy, I think we'd agree that no criticism of the 883 is implied. It's just that the little 65 mm Swaro performs very nearly as well under most circumstances. Even Gerald Dobler, the development team leader for the Zeiss Harpia, suggested in his interview with Troubador that 65 mm scopes were ideal for magnifications up to around 40x.
Although the Kowa will sustain very high magnifications with an extender or astro eyepieces (the Swaro too) under ideal conditions, I find that atmospherics mostly limit practical magnifications to 50x or less.

John
Absolutely! The 883 is monster optics. However, it is more delicate, being magnesium-shelled; although not much heavier, it is bigger. I've had so many great trips with the ATS that it became like an old mate, and i really couldn't get rid of it. It's been dropped, soaked and thrown in the back of endless vehicles, but i can just fling it up on my back and go....always a pleasure! Agree with the mag thing - i only use full zoom on anything if in good light, on a stable platform, with no wind etc. and then just for one tricky i.d. detail; then back to around 35-40x.
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Old Wednesday 5th September 2018, 15:27   #9
alan kennedy
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
The ATS/ATM in 65mm in HD incarnation is as good as the ATX 65mm in my opinion.

I've spent much of last month comparing the ATX 65mm with my ATM 65mm HD with the 25-50x e/p. The little ATM is better, without question. I've tried like heck to find something optically better about the ATX, but damned if I can. That's the unbiased truth. I own both scopes.
V interesting. I have the ATM 80 HD with 25-50. My friend has the ATX 95. We bird together quite a lot and last autumn we were in the Western Isles. A mutual friend with us that week compared both and favoured the ATM over the ATX. At the time I was inclined to agree but have not done any camparisons since.

Alan
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Old Thursday 6th September 2018, 14:30   #10
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V interesting. I have the ATM 80 HD with 25-50. My friend has the ATX 95. We bird together quite a lot and last autumn we were in the Western Isles. A mutual friend with us that week compared both and favoured the ATM over the ATX. At the time I was inclined to agree but have not done any camparisons since.

Alan
Purely based by objective size I'd say that, optically, the 95 should totally outcompete the 80. Weight, price etc are obviously other considerations ('best optics at a given weight point' for those who hike, for instance), but if the optical performances of a 95 are comparable to a 80 I'd be inclined to call the 95 a lemon.
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Old Thursday 6th September 2018, 20:20   #11
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I think, when doing comparisons between ATS/ATX, you have to bear in mind the comparison of systems. The ATX series was introduced (whether consumers take it up or not) to provide flexibility in objective size without buying the whole kaboodle again.
I've seen several ATX95s in use, and one ATX65. I've never seen anyone with the 85, which is perhaps interesting. I wonder how that objective module has fared?
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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 03:11   #12
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The ATX95 seems to shine (compared to smaller objectives) when used at higher powers, and/or poor light conditions with fairly stable air. Under dirty air conditions my friends ATS65 can offer a better view, although still not a great one.
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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 07:33   #13
kabsetz
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Originally Posted by Fedster View Post
Purely based by objective size I'd say that, optically, the 95 should totally outcompete the 80. Weight, price etc are obviously other considerations ('best optics at a given weight point' for those who hike, for instance), but if the optical performances of a 95 are comparable to a 80 I'd be inclined to call the 95 a lemon.
I'd agree. I have seen a few 95's that could be called lemons, but not many. These could very well show images inferior to a cherry 80 mm scope.

Most of the ATX 95's I have seen have been either good to excellent to superb, and these all would give an image already at 30x that would be equal to or better than what an 80 mm scope could give. My ATX 95 is better than any scope I have ever seen, and I have seen many. We'll see if I'll have to change this statement once the Harpia actually hits the shelves here, but thus far it holds.

On the relative scarcity of the ATX 85, it costs almost as much as the 95, and although really good, does not offer absolute top performance. Therefore, those who want compactness and upgradeability will get the 65, those who want maximum performance will get the 95. These two front ends complement one another well, and the 85 falls in the middle no-mans land. Where the 85x is likely better is phonescoping and digiscoping, where 25x starting magnification is advantageous, but at least here in Finland there are a lot of digiscopers using the ATX 95.

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Old Friday 7th September 2018, 08:37   #14
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Originally Posted by litebeam View Post
The ATS/ATM in 65mm in HD incarnation is as good as the ATX 65mm in my opinion.

I've spent much of last month comparing the ATX 65mm with my ATM 65mm HD with the 25-50x e/p. The little ATM is better, without question. I've tried like heck to find something optically better about the ATX, but damned if I can. That's the unbiased truth. I own both scopes.
Interesting that you find the ATS better optically. Might be sample variation?

ATX65 has 60x but I didn't find that it quite could deliver at that magnification.

From what I recall the ATX was a tad warmer in color bias.

The deciding factor for me was weight and the eye piece. The 25-50x is slimmer and fits my eye socket better.

ATS might be better value for money if you don't intend to get a larger objective for the ATX.

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Old Saturday 8th September 2018, 04:46   #15
Bill Atwood
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And the 85 doesn't save you much weight either, around 7 oz. I believe.
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