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eye placement on Kowa TSN-883 vs ATX

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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 06:07   #1
safaridreaming
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eye placement on Kowa TSN-883 vs ATX

hello all,

Was hoping to tap int the experience on this forum before making a decision on my next scope.

I currently own the Swaro ATS-80HD with the 25-50x eyepiece. Its a fine scope, however i've always struggled with eye placement. Not so much struggled but its always been finicky.

I've decided to purchase a new scope - either the Kowa TSN-883 with 25-60x or the ATX85....

I can access the ATX at a local dealer but no one in Perth seems to carry to the Kowa.

That being said, the Kowa also comes in around $1000 cheaper.

so just wondering if anyone's used /tried both the ATX and Kowa relative to the ATS-80?

thanks
Jeelan
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 07:07   #2
jring
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Hi,

I have probably looked through a few examples of all of them, but never together - I have seen very good examples and not so good ones. Also I don't usually have problems with eye placement with monocular optics.

Could you elaborate what is your problem with the ATS wide angle zoom? Are you observing with glasses and there is not enough eye relief to see the full field or do you experience kidneybeaning, or sth entirely different?

Joachim
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 10:06   #3
safaridreaming
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hi Joachim,

yes its kidney beaning that i experience when viewing through this eyepiece. I find that parts of the field black out very quickly when i start moving my eyeball around.

I dont wear glasses. I find the ATX more comfortable and less sensitive to eye placement however with the price difference of the Kowa vs ATX, my preference would be the Kowa pending feedback on viewing comfort through the TE-11WZ eyepiece.

cheers
Jeelan
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 13:33   #4
jring
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Hi,

when you see kidneybeaning in the ATS - is the eyecup fully extended then? I tend to see it if the my eye is too close to the eye lens for bins or eyepieces with long eye relief - be it because the eyecups are not fully extended or too short.

I personally haven't noticed this with the ATS and the wide angle zoom, but it really depends on you facial physiognomy... there seem to be quite some reports of other users experiencing the same with the ATS and the wide angle EP, unlike the ATX or big Kowa.

I'd probably cut a ring out of some self-adhesive foam rubber and put it on the eyecup... 2mm or so might be all it needs...

Joachim
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 17:10   #5
Tringa45
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Hi Jeelan,

Perhaps the eye placement difficulties are caused by spherical aberration of the exit pupil, a topic which has often been discussed on the forum. IIRC you are not alone in experiencing this with the 25-50x Swaro zoom.

I have an 883 with the TE-11WZ eyepiece and eye placement is uncritical throughout the zoom range, with or without glasses. While I agree that the 25-60x magnification range of the ATX 85 and 883 is the more practical alternative to the 30-70x of the ATX 95, particularly in your warm climate, it would be a shame to dispose of the optically excellent and light ATS 80 HD. The 20-60x zoom eyepiece though has a rather narrow Afov at the lower magnifications and the superb 30x W has unfortunately been discontinued.

John

Last edited by Tringa45 : Wednesday 23rd January 2019 at 10:57.
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Old Tuesday 22nd January 2019, 20:45   #6
safaridreaming
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John/Joachim

thanks for the feedback. The comments around uncritical eye placement on the TE-11WZ is exactly the type of feedback i was looking for...

Yes the ATS has a significant weight advantage over the other scopes hence my reluctance to changeover - this has been something i've been considering for over a year now, but have finally decided to go ahead with it..

i'm looking at the ATX 85 which is similar in weight to the Kowa 883. In Perth the ATX retails around $4200, where as the Kowa can be purchased with eyepiece for around $3200. The ATX 95 is higher again in price, weight and size so at the moment its not in the running....

I've only ever heard good things about the Swaro 30x Sw eyepiece and viewing comfort out of it. I know there are many on this forum who prefer a fixed magnification over a zoom. On the other hand, i've never used a fixed mag eyepiece so not sure how I'd go if i chose that option... probably another option for me to consider a significant lower expense....

cheers
Jeelan
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Old Wednesday 23rd January 2019, 14:04   #7
Grando
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The 883 does also, of course, have the option of an excellent 30x wide fixed eyepiece, with a wider FOV than its equivalent on the zoom. I think it's a great eyepiece for seawatching etc and loved it when I compared it side-to-side against the zoom (I think I'd want both options, though).

I preemptively bought one of the 30x before they were discontinued, in case I ever get the chance to upgrade my 823 to an 883 - I'm not sure that day will ever come, but those 30x eyepieces are still out there... I might even decide at some point to sell mine if I really think I'm never going to get an 883! I'd say it's another good argument in favour of the 883.

Last edited by Grando : Wednesday 23rd January 2019 at 14:09.
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Old Wednesday 30th January 2019, 10:05   #8
SjerPlover
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Moved on to KOWA883

Quote:
Originally Posted by safaridreaming View Post
hello all,

Was hoping to tap int the experience on this forum before making a decision on my next scope.

I currently own the Swaro ATS-80HD with the 25-50x eyepiece. Its a fine scope, however i've always struggled with eye placement. Not so much struggled but its always been finicky.

I've decided to purchase a new scope - either the Kowa TSN-883 with 25-60x or the ATX85....

I can access the ATX at a local dealer but no one in Perth seems to carry to the Kowa.

That being said, the Kowa also comes in around $1000 cheaper.

so just wondering if anyone's used /tried both the ATX and Kowa relative to the ATS-80?

thanks
Jeelan
I had the same experinece with swaros 25-50x eyepiece, which was certainly not a result of too much eye relief. (i could not see the whole field of view it)
After 2 years of use, I traded in the Swaro for a KOWA883 with a 25-50x eyepiece. Much more comfortable for my eyes, wider field and brighter. No regrets at all after more than 3 years of use.
As a bonus; KOWA supplies quite usefull digiscoping add- ons.
Best regards,
Sjerp

Last edited by SjerPlover : Wednesday 30th January 2019 at 10:07. Reason: corrected spelling
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Old Friday 1st February 2019, 10:05   #9
SjerPlover
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The KOWA eyepiece is 25-60x. Sorry for any confusion.
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Old Tuesday 5th March 2019, 07:59   #10
Apochromat
ZEISS VICTORY SF 8x42 SWAROVSKI EL 8.5x42 WB EL 10x32 WB EL 10x42 WB KOWA 883+25x-60x Wide
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Hello,

optically both scopes are great and I think it is a matter of taste what you like better. If you can live with the funny KOWA coating of the scopes outer surface and like the focus knobs, its optically a much better scope regarding the contrast of minute structures and the control of chromatic aberration than the SWAROVSKI in my highly subjective opinion (no traces of colour fringes from CA in the KOWA at all, not even with the 1.6x extender). On the other hand the ATX has a superb overall image contrast and a pleasing image from the warmer colour tone of the image. The KOWA image looks a bit "sterile or cleaned up" in comparison.

With the KOWA zoom widefield eyepiece TE-11 WZ PROMINAR and the 883 PROMINAR scope you cannot make a mistake. No kidney beans here.

BUT all samples of this eyepiece are sensitive against sun light from the side. The result was a nasty image glare in some zoom positions. But this effect I only have, when using my high refractive ZEISS eyeglasses. Without eyeglasses the effect is not produced.

I solved the problem by wearing something like this:

https://www.brinkhoff.com/Produktkat...kenschutz.html

Also make sure that you get a new eyepiece as some older versions had dust issues. KOWA changed this by introducing magnetic surfaces inside the eyepiece to attract the metallic dust from inside to the walls.

I looked at five such eyepieces before buying and two had the dust issue (very small particles only visible in one zoom position).

Thanks
Michael

Last edited by Apochromat : Tuesday 5th March 2019 at 20:02. Reason: new idea
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