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Crested ou Thekla ?

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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 06:25   #1
Jean FRANCOIS
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Crested ou Thekla ?

Hello,
could anyone confirm this species of Galerida ?
Cristata or theklae ?
Currently, an opinion for everyone.
Thank you.
Jean
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anthropogenic peri-urban park.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 07:49   #2
skbirder
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For my money surely a Thekla with that short straight stubby bill and contrasty plumage and large dark malar patch. The alternative in Algeria would be Maghreb Lark, which is perceptibly longer-billed than European Crested.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 08:02   #3
Valéry Schollaert
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Originally Posted by skbirder View Post
For my money surely a Thekla with that short straight stubby bill and contrasty plumage and large dark malar patch. The alternative in Algeria would be Maghreb Lark, which is perceptibly longer-billed than European Crested.
I agree on Thekla Lark, but you are confused abut Maghreb Lark range that doesn't occur along the cost of Algeria (it is widespread south the Atlas mountains) ; there are different sub-species of Crested Lark that live in the Maghreb and, in Algier, should be Galerida cristata carthaginis.

That subspecies is, according to HBW Alive, "more buff with narrower streaks, paler below, longer wing".
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 10:08   #4
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Originally Posted by Valéry Schollaert View Post
I agree on Thekla Lark, but you are confused abut Maghreb Lark range that doesn't occur along the cost of Algeria (it is widespread south the Atlas mountains).
Well, now, this may 'just' be a matter of systematics/taxonomy.

According to IOC, G. macrorhyncha 'Maghreb Lark' has two ssp, one of which G. m. randonii ranges from e Morocco to nw Algeria. (But I too agree with Thekla's fwiw.)
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 10:31   #5
Valéry Schollaert
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Well, now, this may 'just' be a matter of systematics/taxonomy.

According to IOC, G. macrorhyncha 'Maghreb Lark' has two ssp, one of which G. m. randonii ranges from e Morocco to nw Algeria. (But I too agree with Thekla's fwiw.)
Yes, but what they called NW Algeria is still south of the Mountains ; Algeria is a very big country.

Nominal Maghreb Lark is on the desertic lowlands and G. m. randonii is on the plateaux of the southern slopes of the mountains.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 10:52   #6
Jean FRANCOIS
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Thank you all
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 12:49   #7
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Can't remember who sent me this though Mahgreb isn't covered.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 14:25   #8
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Can't remember who sent me this though Mahgreb isn't covered.
Pretty sure it's John Cantello's work.

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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 14:45   #9
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Pretty sure it's John Cantello's work.

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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 15:08   #10
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I would not want to prolong the debate unnecessarily,
but I believe that many of the criteria mentioned in the table are aimed at Crested.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 16:32   #11
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John Cantelo (see here)
I did think it might have been John.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 16:34   #12
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I would not want to prolong the debate unnecessarily,
but I believe that many of the criteria mentioned in the table are aimed at Crested.
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I don't understand your point, it's clear that the image I posted is aimed at separation of Crested and Thekla?
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 16:38   #13
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I don't understand your point, it's clear that the image I posted is aimed at separation of Crested and Thekla?
He means that, using the document, he would identify op bird as Crested.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 16:42   #14
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Yes, it's an early draft of something I put together years ago but it was specifically aimed at the situation in Iberia. It should be used to ID Thekla's in North Africa with great caution (or not at all!) as there are different races and some of the criteria don't apply (or need to be modified). I'd call this as Thekla's myself although I have very limited knowledge of North African subspecies.
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Old Friday 5th July 2019, 16:44   #15
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I would expect that the image is aimed at helping with such separation in S Spain. I believe the subspecies in N Africa are sufficiently different that a different page would be needed to be helpful in that area.

Niels

PS: John answered while I was writing my part
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