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How to lure raptors to the ground

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Old Wednesday 20th April 2011, 20:30   #26
Mike Price
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As to red kites being poor hunters....................well..................well what ?? its common knowledge that red Kites are not the best Hunting BOP.

I could be wrong but why do we have lots of feeding stations for these birds ?? and why do they in lots of cases come down for food that people have left out for them. if you care to go on youtube you can watch these magnificent birds coming down into people's back gardens to take food.
What is the harm i this ?? we are doing them a favour and helping them survive......to many people on here once again have their heads up their own A***s................Look the facts are lots of people feed these birds no harm done.....yet once again we have the doogooders coming on a saying its wrong.

Well its not wrong its OK to do this.....and if someone wants to do the same thing in the middle of a farmers field let them get on with it...if people want to do it in their own backyard what is the difference....the birds are none of the wiser.

one of the best known naturalists this country has ever produced used to drag dead deer up the hill out the back where he lived for GE to feed on and mentioned this in his books........would any of you dare to tell this person his actions were wrong...NO OF COURSE NOT BECAUSE NONE OF YOU WOULD HAVE HAD THE BALLS TO.

How could any of you on here tell someone that they are wrong from behind your office desk............when they are living out in the wild and up close to the very species you claim you are trying to protect....................breeding season my arse..thats all you go on about....go and iron your shirts and your action slacks and come back when you have learnt a bit about real wildlife !!!
Sorry to disagree but if you pulled your own head out of your arse you would of read that I didn't think a public forum is a place to discuss the best way to lure raptors, I don't care how many ways they already know, do we really want to provide any further ideas or help?

Taking pictures is a very enjoyable hobby, one I take part in myself but it comes second to my other interest which is raptor protection and doesn't involve being behind a desk or wearing an ironed shirt but 100's of hours monitoring and witnessing many instances of illegal persecution.

Buzzards may be common where you are, doesn't mean they are everywhere, sure we see them when the breeding season starts but strangely they never seem to make it to the point where the young would have fledged.

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Old Wednesday 20th April 2011, 20:35   #27
shark attack
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Isn't there a bit of over-reaction going on here? I think that the question of whether or not it is "fair" to attract raptors with roadkill is probably a reasonable one to debate but how does anyone think that such a question could benefit the bad guys? It's hard to imagine a dodgy gamekeeper sitting at home thinking "I wish, I wish, there was a way of attracting buzzards within reach of my gun", then doing a google search and leaping off the settee shouting "Roadkill - luring!!! Why didn't I think of that??"
Glad someone on here has a bit of common sense about them.....how this thread turned its ugly head around from someone asking how to get a photo of a common buzzard to the welfare of BOP is beyound me................
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Old Wednesday 20th April 2011, 20:39   #28
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It is actually against the law to lure birds of prey. Firsty due to the diturbance caused, and secondly, it is also illegal to put down meat, especially rooadkill, as it will have been transported from another area, with risk of disease transfer from one site to another.

Film makers do this, as they have a licence to do so, all the necessary permissions, and strict safety regulations that they have to adhere to.

Reading up on the law before posting such a thread as this would surely have been far more sensible.
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Old Wednesday 20th April 2011, 21:15   #29
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Isn't there a bit of over-reaction going on here? I think that the question of whether or not it is "fair" to attract raptors with roadkill is probably a reasonable one to debate but how does anyone think that such a question could benefit the bad guys? It's hard to imagine a dodgy gamekeeper sitting at home thinking "I wish, I wish, there was a way of attracting buzzards within reach of my gun", then doing a google search and leaping off the settee shouting "Roadkill - luring!!! Why didn't I think of that??"
Exactly couldnt have put it better.
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Old Thursday 21st April 2011, 05:31   #30
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Well.... I have a pretty good collection of my own photographs of birds of prey and I do not know how anyone can wait around for anything!!
I have several "tricks" I use. One is the ravens. The ravens will "tell" on any bird of prey who is even looking like they are going to take their meal away! These ravens are very loud and they fly high enough one can see them from a distance, heck one can hear them!!
Get your equipment and start out. Hiking to where ever the action is. This is one of my methods and it has been very successful for me.
We are a farming community, so any fields that are being plowed is a oasis for birds of prey. Young hawks, they may fly on you... but not far! Young birds in general really do not know they are supposed to be afraid of us.
As you pointed out, birds of prey are also scavengers. Again, I do not know how anyone can sit around and wait for anything when the action might be going on over there..... keep practicing and do your own thing. Advice is great, but I am sure everyone will agree we all have our own way of doing things.....
Wish you well!!
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Old Thursday 21st April 2011, 12:09   #31
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... which is raptor protection and doesn't involve being behind a desk or wearing an ironed shirt but 100's of hours monitoring and witnessing many instances of illegal persecution.


Sorry if this does not refer to the former thread subject, but I really think these actions have to be praised.
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Old Friday 22nd April 2011, 13:19   #32
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Hi jlees,

This year I am going to use liver...it smells quite strong and its cheap !!!!!!!

Good Luck

David
Buy the Liver and I'll swop you for some road kill!!

Just don't waste the Liver
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Old Sunday 24th April 2011, 16:31   #33
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I had a fortunate experience with some Black Vultures the other day. We are loaded with Black and Turkey vultures here in South Florida.
A group of BVs were feeding in the middle of a dirt road near a wildlife refuge. Unfortunately this road is adjacent to a few horse stables, and while I know there are wonderful nature-minding horse folks in the world, the group in this area tends to care only about their expensive polo ponies and dressage horses. They come flying down the dirt road , frequently leaving behind roadkill, including vultures. Thes vultures had to scatter quickly to avoid becoming such.
I stopped my car and picked up the dead possum on which they were feeding to move it off the road. Two of them followed me very closely, within a foot or two. They grunted at me but at least they didn't vomit I stood within a yard , watching the five of them eat their meal. Too bad I just had my pocket camera. And I'm sure the speeding horse folk thought I was nuts.

And I've often wondered if playing dead would work. I look forward to hanging out with some more vultures sometime.
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Old Sunday 24th April 2011, 17:57   #34
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And I've often wondered if playing dead would work. I look forward to hanging out with some more vultures sometime.

Could be dangerous. You might fall asleep and wake up with no eyes.
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Old Monday 25th April 2011, 00:37   #35
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Im sorry, i meant know disrespect to anyone or any harm to any birds.
All I want is some nice photos to add to my growing portfolio, most garden birds are relatively easy to get close to with my currently 'rubbish' camera. But Buzzards are a completely different kettle of fish and so I say thanks to those who gave me what I wanted, some simple, basic, non-violent advice.

I would also like to say that where I live (Northern Ireland) there is very little raptor persecution, we welcome the birds here the clean up exploding rabbit and mice populations which eat our crops, the only birds shot locally are crows, apart from this you will see one poisoning or shooting of a Raptor each year (thats in a considerabley large population).
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Old Monday 25th April 2011, 16:12   #36
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It is actually against the law to lure birds of prey. Firsty due to the diturbance caused, and secondly, it is also illegal to put down meat, especially rooadkill, as it will have been transported from another area, with risk of disease transfer from one site to another.

Film makers do this, as they have a licence to do so, all the necessary permissions, and strict safety regulations that they have to adhere to.

Reading up on the law before posting such a thread as this would surely have been far more sensible.
Who mentioned anything about roadkill ??

Secondly it is not against the law to photograph Common Buzzards...they are not on the protected list..you have the right to try and get photo of a Common Buzzard in exactly the same way you would have the rite to photograph a blackbird or blue tit.

Show me a scrap of evidence which suggets that this activity would be illegall. I might save you the trouble at trawking through the CRWA and the WCA because these acts only refer to birds in the schedule 1 species.

And the act states that you have to be intentionally or recklessly disturbing th birds.

I hardly think Jlees request would have been any of the above !!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Monday 25th April 2011, 19:51   #37
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Who mentioned anything about roadkill ?? Secondly it is not against the law to photograph Common Buzzards...they are not on the protected list..you have the right to try and get photo of a Common Buzzard in exactly the same way you would have the rite to photograph a blackbird or blue tit. Show me a scrap of evidence which suggets that this activity would be illegall. I might save you the trouble at trawking through the CRWA and the WCA because these acts only refer to birds in the schedule 1 species. And the act states that you have to be intentionally or recklessly disturbing th birds. I hardly think Jlees request would have been any of the above !!!!!!!!!!!!
Stephen's point was made clearly and you have either avoided it or not taken time to understand it. The road-kill reference was merely an additional aspect, not the main subject. I've enjoyed many of your previous posts, and largely agreed with them, but here perhaps you were just a little too quick to respond - luring birds to be photographed is not the same as photographing birds just when the opportunity presents itself. In the former, the risk of disturbance does seem much higher than in the latter.

However, context matters, as is spelled out in the licensing aspect previously mentioned - case law I would surmise will be based on the interpretation of how licensing is applied within the context of appropriate Acts of Parliament, and not limited to CRWA and WCA. I'm sure we must have several people in the legal profession as Bird Forum members who could expound on these aspects with far greater authority than I could!
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PS Twelve exclamation marks might be consdered a trifle excessive...
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Old Monday 25th April 2011, 21:25   #38
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I would also like to say that where I live (Northern Ireland) there is very little raptor persecution, .
I'd be carefull with statements like that - many of the released Goldies from Donegal have "disappeared" over NI with Antrim in particular a blackspot. And not all dead Red Kites found in NI have died of "hunger" eitheir!!
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 00:55   #39
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Could be dangerous. You might fall asleep and wake up with no eyes.
What a way to go

The vultures here are protected species, but you'd never know it from the way people disrespect them.
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 16:54   #40
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What a way to go

The vultures here are protected species, but you'd never know it from the way people disrespect them.
The original question posed on here about how to lure a Common buzzard dwon for a photo is what we are ment to be debating..if we cant debate it on an open Birdforum then maybe we should be discussing this question via private e mail.

Whilst the answers given to jlees might not be in everyones favour the facts are that he was posing a question which could actually be answered. Whether it is everone's cup of tea or not is totally irrelevant.

I have explained that he could do something to help him get this photo within the law...and that is the fact..just because a lot of people on here do not agree with these methods does not mean we are not allowed to disscuss them.

We are not talking about Jlees putting out some bait i the middle of a field everyday and sitting there in his hide all day waiting to get the shot.

Like someone has mentioned if he ants to sit in a hide at he side of a forest and put something out to attract the buzzard 30 yds away out in the open for his photo then so be it.

By merely discussing this is not going to help any one at all and there horrible methods poisn a BOP. Like I have said these low lifes who do poison BOP have been doing all there lives with their traps and their poisons and as mentioned before actually getting away with it. I think this thread would actually help less poisoninngs ( if thats how you spell it ). Scenario would Jlees whilst sitting in the forest waiting to get his photo, report someone laying down bait nearby for no apparant reason.

I am sure Jlees would report this to the authorities and might even get a prosecution...had he not been therewe ould have another poisoned bird but no one there to witness it.

Just because we are there but not protectonists does not mean to say we would not report something untoward...the more people out there like us can only be a good thing the more theeyes the better.......but as usual the protectionist would rather have only there own eyes to protect than anyone elses.

The police support neighbourhood watch schemes and rely on membersof the public to catch people in he middle of thier crimes...pity the people in the birding fraternity didnt think like this..we might have a lot of wildlife crime reported and mors prsosecutions of peole who actually poison BOP.

Remember 4 pairs of eyes are better than two or even none in these areas where wildlife crimes are committed..its just a pity the very people protecting these birds do not think this way...FACT ! One excalamation mark.
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 17:30   #41
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This issue has been discussed many times in so many different forums.

For those of you who don't see a different between baiting raptors and feeding backyard birds, here's an explanation:

The former is putting out meat for an individual bird at a specific point in time, where a human will be present. The latter is putting out seeds and other food for any random bird that stops by regardless of whether a human is around or not.

I have seen cases where there was a roadkilled deer moved away from the road and left out in a field for eagles and other scavengers. That's not baiting because it's done for the safety of the raptors, not for the benefit of a human looking to lure in a particular bird. And again it's for any bird who stops by at any point in time.

For those who can't think of any problem that might arise from baiting raptors, here's a list for you:

- Raptors can learn quickly to associate humans with food. As a result, the raptor may become less fearful of humans.
- If done next to a road, it puts the raptor in danger of being hit by a car.
- If done during nesting season, it can interfere with nesting activities.
- Are you 100% sure that the supermarket meat you're putting out is safe? It's certainly not natural for a raptor to be eating ground beef or pet store mice ...
- Even if you are doing it in a responsible way, others following your example may not.

All of the above puts the baited raptor at risk. So the question you need to ask yourself is, what's more important - the welfare of the bird, or your desire to photograph it? Are you willing to take a chance that either you or someone else seeing your example may have some negative impact on raptors?
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 17:37   #42
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Like it or not shark attack, this is what lured all of us into this thread:
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How to lure raptors to the ground
Now go back and reconsider some of the replies you've been so dismissive of, if you'd be so kind.

@gymell: Good post.
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 19:11   #43
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Been reading this thread with interest with some good points made by both sides.

The issue of using roadkill I found particularly interesting.If it is so bad/illegal to use roadkill then why are there wild raptor feeding sites (specifically with photographers in mind) using roadkill to lure Eagles etc to come down and `pose` for the photographers lenses?All this is done as a legitimate and legal business.As a photographer myself (and I stress I have never lured a raptor down with roadkill) I have seen endless photos of obviously set up shots with wild raptors including the gallery here.Not once have I seen a comment of disagreement by any BF member.I also know of several professional Wildlife Photographers that have openly said they have used a roadkill Hare or Deer to get shots of particular Raptor species.
Picking up one of gymell`s points about supermarket meat being safe.Gigrin farm use meat from an abbatoir and scatters it in a field for Red Kites and Buzzards but it has to be fit for human consumption.I see nobody criticising them?

As I said,there are good points made by both sides but the scum that wish harm to BOP already know the tricks so really dont need to come here for tips believe me!
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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 19:42   #44
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Like it or not shark attack, this is what lured all of us into this thread:Now go back and reconsider some of the replies you've been so dismissive of, if you'd be so kind.

@gymell: Good post.
Ok then listen i will hold my hands up and agree that I may be wrong and I will always agree that when i am wrong I am man enought to admit to it.

I have admitted on here that the way I used to go birding in my younger days was wrong...but please remember some people on here actually agree that luring a Buzzard for a photo isnt as bad as what people are making out to be. Things on here can be a bit over the top and blown out of all proportion especially when I am involved.

All i am saying is its not everone's cup of tea and it it not illegall either. I do now know that after reading all your replies that I could well be in the wrong...but not in everyones eyes.

Please someone google " HOW TO LURE RED KITES " see what you come up with and tell me what you read is right or wrong....Jlees said he wanted one photo of a buzzard...he did not say he was going to be there day in day out waiting for his photo.

If he left something out and got his photo then great.. he does not want to sit there seven days a week waiting for his photo he hasn't probably got the time.

Many a wildlife photographer use these methods and yes they do have permission but does the bird know this...if it is bad practice for Jlees to do it then it is bad practice and not good for the birds for any one to do it wildlife photographer film maker whatever, licence / permission or not.

If the birds safety is at risk why should the wildlife photographer be allowed to make money out of his photos for his/hers calenders or whatever ??

its like anything on here you ask for the best advice and safest way to do things and you get shot down in flames....say nothing and do it and no one will be any of the wiser.

We have lots of people protecting very rare BOP keeping their identity and there position a secret.... and then someone comes along and decides well its OK now for everyone to come and have a look but we are going to charge you 20 a time to do so...we are going to have 4 mini bus trips a day with 15 people at a time thats 300 quid a trip 1200 a day.....is the welfare of the birds on every ones mind now ??

I know this is going of the subject a bit but where does the birds welfare come into this ??? The whole situation of people who want to see birds BOP feed BOP for photos need to be re addressed as far as I am concerned....the secret society that exists in probably many a bird clubs needs to be re - addressed....I know of people that have actually been pointed in the wrong direction who want to photograph birds...even from a safe distance from a public road.

So come on lets have a bit of common sense on here and admit that Jlees original request was not one that is going to put any birds at risk...if it was then requests by wildlife photograpers / film makers would equally put the birds at risk and if that is the case then they should be refused permission as well.

my early posts on here on where to see GE and SE went down like a lead weight but if the truth is known there is good places to see these birds but no one was willing to share this info with me so I had to find out the hard way.

I will re - iterate all the people putting food out for BOP ( especiall red kites ) what harm are these people causing the birds why are they still allowed to do it ??. I have met people who have put carcasses out for GE on the isle of sky to help them to survive and it has worked.....if these people wanted to help them survive but also take a quick photo in the meantime...would we all discourage this practice because the person wanted a photo as well ??? I dont think so.

I think there is a lot of over reaction on here and if we were on about a schedule 1 protected species I would have to hold my hands up and say OK I am in the wrong. But the facts are we are not. How many of us keen photographers on here would admit that we have tried to take a photo of a kingfisher without a licence ?? I bet there is a few in fact a lot more than a few...but instead of trying to go through the proper channels you just get out there on a sunny sinday morning and hope for the best...maybe some people have even the odd branch out across a spot of river and sat and waited an hour or so...............well that is illegall but many people do it....they just dont ADMITT TO DOING IT CAUSE IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.

What Jlees was asking to is not, yet he was met with a barrage of negativity... my advice to anyone on here... this so called "open Birdforum " is not to bother asking anything at all because you will get short sharp swift answers from the people who have probably done all this in their younger days.

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Old Tuesday 26th April 2011, 20:48   #45
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Been reading this thread with interest with some good points made by both sides.

The issue of using roadkill I found particularly interesting.If it is so bad/illegal to use roadkill then why are there wild raptor feeding sites (specifically with photographers in mind) using roadkill to lure Eagles etc to come down and `pose` for the photographers lenses?All this is done as a legitimate and legal business.As a photographer myself (and I stress I have never lured a raptor down with roadkill) I have seen endless photos of obviously set up shots with wild raptors including the gallery here.Not once have I seen a comment of disagreement by any BF member.I also know of several professional Wildlife Photographers that have openly said they have used a roadkill Hare or Deer to get shots of particular Raptor species.
Picking up one of gymell`s points about supermarket meat being safe.Gigrin farm use meat from an abbatoir and scatters it in a field for Red Kites and Buzzards but it has to be fit for human consumption.I see nobody criticising them?

As I said,there are good points made by both sides but the scum that wish harm to BOP already know the tricks so really dont need to come here for tips believe me!
Very Very very well said...I applaud your honesty and the methods people have used and mentioned on this thread. And admire you for writing your post on this open Birdforum for all to read.

I just wish that we had more people like the farmer up at gruinard leaving food out for very rare species to feed on during bad winters. leaving food out for BOP whether schedule 1 species or not / whether it is to help them survive or to photograph was done more often.

The only thing I would suggest is that the people had the beat equipment availabe to guarantee that the birds were none of the wiser..IE very good hide / camera / and patience.
remember it is only illegall to do this is if you are close to the nesting area which might be classed as intentionally or recklessley disturbing the birds in question. if the breeding area is several mile up the road 2,000 feet up wherever...how could this be classed as disturbance if you are several mile away ??

I unfortunately recently watched a video about a group of several people not including camera crew going to visit the highly publicised SE site at Loch Frisa..where you could here the female and Male Sea Eagles making distress calls above the nesting area.. this i found hard to believe.. and question.. was the birds wellbeing being put before the filmakers film..or was the film about the Isle of Mull and what they have to offer the holiday maker coming first.

Obviously in this instance the birds wellbeing came second. You know we can't have certain rules for certain people and certain rules for others. But unfortunately certain people get permission for their own gains...whilst others have to try and figure out the hard way to pursue their hobby of watching or photographing BOP.

The only chance people on Ardnamurchan have ever had the chance to witness A GE feeding was by us humans leaving food out for them...surely if this was bad practice then they would not have had the green light to go ahead and do it.

I have said before and sick of saying it time and time again that there is many "grey areas" about watching and photogaphing BOP and i am not going to go into all over again.

Anyone looked up the article about feeding Red Kites on Google please get back to me I look forward to your replies...whether these people are right or wrong to do this and secondly are they breaking the tha law.

I look forward to your replies.

regards

david

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Old Wednesday 27th April 2011, 01:45   #46
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Sorry to disagree but if you pulled your own head out of your arse you would of read that I didn't think a public forum is a place to discuss the best way to lure raptors, I don't care how many ways they already know, do we really want to provide any further ideas or help?

Taking pictures is a very enjoyable hobby, one I take part in myself but it comes second to my other interest which is raptor protection and doesn't involve being behind a desk or wearing an ironed shirt but 100's of hours monitoring and witnessing many instances of illegal persecution.

Buzzards may be common where you are, doesn't mean they are everywhere, sure we see them when the breeding season starts but strangely they never seem to make it to the point where the young would have fledged.

http://birdingfrontiers.files.wordpr...watch_2010.pdf
Well I thought I would have One reply from your goodself on your thoughts of the many feeding stations around the uk especially with regards to recent conversations about feeding BOP especially Red Kites.

Sorry you have not had time to reply and even more sorry that you have had time to read this thread and probably could not come up with a valid reply.

Strangely enough for me where I come from we do actually do see a lot of Buzzrds reach maturity and probably go on to bred and produce young of thier own..once again my questions on here have been met with a wall of silence......all I asked for was some answers as to whether feeding stations around northern england where a good thing or a bad thin or a bad idea.

The population of red kites where I comw from are the result of feeding stations....feeding stations that in your case are ilegall and detrimantal to the species in question..I wonder if anyone on here could enlighten us or inform us if the introduction of the red Kites and the food supply given to them by volunteers in the derwent valley is a hinderance or a help to the scces of their breeding rate. This could settle an argument once and for all.

if the re-introduction of these magnificent birds has been detrimantal to their success, and the feeding stations which help keep them alive has played a major part in their success then please feel free to comment... I personally ove to see Red ites flying around up the derwant valley and beyoung has been a great success and the people behing this re-introduction so feel very proud about their achievements...if what your doing goes against nature then i feel very sorry and angry that certain individuals can think in this way.

I know this thread ha changed from Buzzards to Red Kites but the fact is we are trying to help all BOP succeed in life.

Well done to the people who think is OK to feed BOP within the right environment at the right time, and the right place at the right time of year...Good on yer and keep up the good work...even though to some people on her you might b breaking the law......keep up the good work..you are doing some of our endangered species a big favour when food is sparce...especially in winter.....good on you !!!!!!!!!!!!!
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Old Wednesday 27th April 2011, 01:59   #47
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Buy the Liver and I'll swop you for some road kill!!

Just don't waste the Liver
Well belive it or not the liver I will be using is not going to attract any BOP..will keep it a secret of what iam hoping to photograph but it aint no BOP, quite the opposite...will keep you posted via private e mail if i get any good results....fingers crossed its a long shot to get a photo but not an impossibility...good luck with you photos anyway which ever method you might to choose to use.


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David


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Old Wednesday 27th April 2011, 16:31   #48
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Well I thought I would have One reply from your goodself on your thoughts of the many feeding stations around the uk especially with regards to recent conversations about feeding BOP especially Red Kites.

Sorry you have not had time to reply and even more sorry that you have had time to read this thread and probably could not come up with a valid reply.

Strangely enough for me where I come from we do actually do see a lot of Buzzrds reach maturity and probably go on to bred and produce young of thier own..once again my questions on here have been met with a wall of silence......all I asked for was some answers as to whether feeding stations around northern england where a good thing or a bad thin or a bad idea.

The population of red kites where I comw from are the result of feeding stations....feeding stations that in your case are ilegall and detrimantal to the species in question..I wonder if anyone on here could enlighten us or inform us if the introduction of the red Kites and the food supply given to them by volunteers in the derwent valley is a hinderance or a help to the scces of their breeding rate. This could settle an argument once and for all.

if the re-introduction of these magnificent birds has been detrimantal to their success, and the feeding stations which help keep them alive has played a major part in their success then please feel free to comment... I personally ove to see Red ites flying around up the derwant valley and beyoung has been a great success and the people behing this re-introduction so feel very proud about their achievements...if what your doing goes against nature then i feel very sorry and angry that certain individuals can think in this way.

I know this thread ha changed from Buzzards to Red Kites but the fact is we are trying to help all BOP succeed in life.

Well done to the people who think is OK to feed BOP within the right environment at the right time, and the right place at the right time of year...Good on yer and keep up the good work...even though to some people on her you might b breaking the law......keep up the good work..you are doing some of our endangered species a big favour when food is sparce...especially in winter.....good on you !!!!!!!!!!!!!
I decided to no longer participate in this conversation. I have made my thoughts perfectly clear and you choose to continue with the subject, which you have every right to do.

Offering information of this type in a public forum is to my mind wrong.
Encouraging raptors to become more trusting of people and their bait is to my mind wrong.

The reason I disagree with both of these actions is because raptors in the UK are heavily persecuted and both these things could used against them.

Birds of prey survived for 1000's of years without us using these type of additional feeding methods in times when our winters were far harder than they are now, what they are unable to survive is the relentless persecution that is rife in some areas.

Yes I have been busy something serious came up
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Old Wednesday 27th April 2011, 17:24   #49
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Encouraging raptors to become more trusting of people and their bait is to my mind wrong.
So you must think Gigrin is wrong then, Mike?

I don't know how long the good folk at Gigrin have been feeding the Kites but it must be a good few years now, so I'm guessing the many hundreds of Kites have become ''humanised'',yes?

Is there any evidence to show/prove that there's been any adverse effects because of this practise? I doubt it!!!!! (5 exclamation marks)

I've googled Gigrin Kites and this came up: http://www.gigrin.co.uk/......and they feed the birds during summer......Hmmm...Infact, they've been doing it 365 day a year for 18 years...........and surely CB's get attracted to the farm, or do they get shoo'd away because they're not allowed to be there??

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Old Wednesday 27th April 2011, 17:56   #50
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There are actually a few things that spring to mind that could be considered adverse effects of stations such as Gigrin farm.
From limiting dispersal, reliance, vast numbers of birds staying in one place instead of migrating a real hard winter could hit them hard and finally disease could easily spread in such an environment, I don't doubt in some cases short term feeding can have a lot of benefit for some species but do we really know the long term implications 3-4 generations from now? do we know that there will be enough interest to maintain the feeding and if not what will become of these birds?
Are we maintaining artificially high numbers of some species that could have an adverse effect on other species?

None of that is what concerned me about this thread though, what concerned me was sharing the tips for the best way to lure raptors in an open forum where anyone could easily access it, I know its not beyond most people to think of a way to lure raptors but do we have to spell it out quite so easily for them? and it's not just the shooting industry that is to be thought of here, pigeon owners and people who believe that the increase in raptors is damaging for other bird species.

As I said my participation in this is over my view point wasn't considered to be valid and as such there is no point in continuing discussing it as we are unlikely to come to an agreement on it.

I should also point out that persecution is far less of a problem in Wales if that were to change then what an easy target Gigrin farm birds could become.

Last edited by Mike Price : Wednesday 27th April 2011 at 18:06.
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