Originally Posted by Andrew Rowlands
Like it or not shark attack, this is what lured all of us into this thread:Now go back and reconsider some of the replies you've been so dismissive of, if you'd be so kind.
@gymell: Good post.
Ok then listen i will hold my hands up and agree that I may be wrong and I will always agree that when i am wrong I am man enought to admit to it.
I have admitted on here that the way I used to go birding in my younger days was wrong...but please remember some people on here actually agree that luring a Buzzard for a photo isnt as bad as what people are making out to be. Things on here can be a bit over the top and blown out of all proportion especially when I am involved.
All i am saying is its not everone's cup of tea and it it not illegall either. I do now know that after reading all your replies that I could well be in the wrong...but not in everyones eyes.
Please someone google " HOW TO LURE RED KITES " see what you come up with and tell me what you read is right or wrong....Jlees said he wanted one photo of a buzzard...he did not say he was going to be there day in day out waiting for his photo.
If he left something out and got his photo then great.. he does not want to sit there seven days a week waiting for his photo he hasn't probably got the time.
Many a wildlife photographer use these methods and yes they do have permission but does the bird know this...if it is bad practice for Jlees to do it then it is bad practice and not good for the birds for any one to do it wildlife photographer film maker whatever, licence / permission or not.
If the birds safety is at risk why should the wildlife photographer be allowed to make money out of his photos for his/hers calenders or whatever ??
its like anything on here you ask for the best advice and safest way to do things and you get shot down in flames....say nothing and do it and no one will be any of the wiser.
We have lots of people protecting very rare BOP keeping their identity and there position a secret.... and then someone comes along and decides well its OK now for everyone to come and have a look but we are going to charge you £20 a time to do so...we are going to have 4 mini bus trips a day with 15 people at a time thats £300 quid a trip £1200 a day.....is the welfare of the birds on every ones mind now ??
I know this is going of the subject a bit but where does the birds welfare come into this ??? The whole situation of people who want to see birds BOP feed BOP for photos need to be re addressed as far as I am concerned....the secret society that exists in probably many a bird clubs needs to be re - addressed....I know of people that have actually been pointed in the wrong direction who want to photograph birds...even from a safe distance from a public road.
So come on lets have a bit of common sense on here and admit that Jlees original request was not one that is going to put any birds at risk...if it was then requests by wildlife photograpers / film makers would equally put the birds at risk and if that is the case then they should be refused permission as well.
my early posts on here on where to see GE and SE went down like a lead weight but if the truth is known there is good places to see these birds but no one was willing to share this info with me so I had to find out the hard way.
I will re - iterate all the people putting food out for BOP ( especiall red kites ) what harm are these people causing the birds why are they still allowed to do it ??. I have met people who have put carcasses out for GE on the isle of sky to help them to survive and it has worked.....if these people wanted to help them survive but also take a quick photo in the meantime...would we all discourage this practice because the person wanted a photo as well ??? I dont think so.
I think there is a lot of over reaction on here and if we were on about a schedule 1 protected species I would have to hold my hands up and say OK I am in the wrong. But the facts are we are not. How many of us keen photographers on here would admit that we have tried to take a photo of a kingfisher without a licence ?? I bet there is a few in fact a lot more than a few...but instead of trying to go through the proper channels you just get out there on a sunny sinday morning and hope for the best...maybe some people have even the odd branch out across a spot of river and sat and waited an hour or so...............well that is illegall but many people do it....they just dont ADMITT TO DOING IT CAUSE IT IS AGAINST THE LAW.
What Jlees was asking to is not, yet he was met with a barrage of negativity... my advice to anyone on here... this so called "open Birdforum " is not to bother asking anything at all because you will get short sharp swift answers from the people who have probably done all this in their younger days.