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Leica Ultravid 12x50 vs Swarovski El 12x50 (1 Viewer)

R

Riverbank

Member
Hi, I've been using the Leica Ultravid 12 x 50's for almost three years now. I borrowed the first 'demo' pair to come into town in order to check them out and after waiting more than a year and a half for another pair to get here, I finally bought the ones that I had been using all along.
If anyone is thinking of moving up to a set of 12 x 50s and wonders if they will be able to hold them steady or locate a bird easily without scanning madly in all directions, I'd be happy to answer your questions.
Out here on the west coast of Canada where a lot of the birding is done looking out to sea through clouds and mist, these are the greatest bins. I previously used a lovely old pair of B & L Elite 10 x 42s but I found that I often had to reach for the scope to see everything that I wanted to see.
The Leica 12 x 50s have been a real joy. Everyone had warned me that I would never be able to hold them steady but that was never a problem for me or for anyone else I loaned them to. The field of view is a little reduced but the picture is so clear that I feel like I am in it, instead of peering down a tube to look at the bird. Even after it is too dark to tell the colours of a bird with the naked eye, the Leicas let me see what I'm looking at in colour, giving me the gift of an extra 30 minutes of birding at dawn and another 30 minutes at dusk.
I really love my Leicas when I have left the scope in the car and can still get a good view of a bird that jumps up in front of me. I don't have any trouble scanning with them. In fact, the 12 x 50s are so good that my partner wants a pair now - either another pair of Leicas or the new Swarovski El 12 x 50s. Has anyone out there made a comparison between these two bins? I'd love to hear your views about which is the clearest and easiest to use.
 
If Leica doesn't hire you after that pitch, they'd be fools! :)

Welcome to Birdforum. We don't see many 10x birders, let alone 12x ones, so it was refreshing to read your comments.

I would really love to be able to use a 12x50 at times when I need more reach, like when I was trying to confirm what I was seeing at a long distance was an eagle not a vulture. Fortunately, I had a scope handy to make the ID.

I might buy a scope someday, but I prefer two eyed birding. So maybe a Docter 20x80 Aspectum when I hit the lottery.

I owned a 12x50 SE with a 16 ft. close focus (others have owned the same bin too, it had been "around the block" many times but the optics were still in VG condition). In fact, it was handled so often that the serial # wore off! I was Henry VIII, and there were four more 'enries after me.

I used the 12x SE mostly for stargazing, for which it is eminently qualified. More detailed views of DSOs than you'd expect for a 12x bin, more like a 15x bin.

For birding, I found the SE's 5* FOV too narrow. I remember once seeing a couple Cedar Waxwings in my backyard only about 50 ft. away and not being able to locate them in the 12x50s! I had to use my 8x32 SEs to find them, then lift the 12x50s above the 32s to locate them.

I would imagine that in time I would have gotten better locating birds with the SEs, and 12x50s were meant for the "long view" anyway.

The DOF was quite shallow at close distances, and at longer distances, FOV is less important than detail resolution.

The other issue with the 12x SE was chromatic aberration. Looking at hawks circling, if I didn't keep them perfectly centered against the cloudy background, purple fringing was obvious and distracting.

Lastly, the 12x SE did not balance in my hands as well as the 8x32 and 10x42 models. With the other two, I could keep my palms on the prism housings. With the 12x model, I had to shift my hands forward a bit since the balance point was on the seam between the housings and the barrels due to the longer barrels and larger (and heavier) objectives.

So when I hear people say they can hold 12x bins still, I'm intrigued but usually write it off as birders who have exceptionally steady hands.

A comparison of the Leica with the 12x50 SV EL would be unfair, because the EL has built-in VR (vibration reduction) or so they tell me. :)

I think the EL's would probably balance better in my hands than the 12x SE or Ultravid due to the open bridge design, but I doubt if the image would be as steady as my 10x42 SE or 10x35 EII, which is even steadier.

So then, would I see more detail with a 12x50? Perhaps if it had exceptional ergonomics that fit my hands like a glove, excellent balance, and I'd need to use it at least an hour after I've eaten since I found that eating brings on the shakes. Caffeine free, so no issue there.

Lots of "stars" would have to be in alignment for me to use a 12x50 bin for birding. But that's me, Mr. Shake. YMMV.

Thanks for that report on the 12x Ultravid.

Brock
 
I'm afraid I can't answer your question. But dedicated 12x users being pretty thin on the ground here, as a former one I'd like to welcome you. Why former? Mine got ripped off!

This is my true and off topic story. I bought a 12x50 Trinovid BN with absolutely no intention of using it for anything but stargazing, and piously avoided daytime use for over a year, the consensus being, no way, don't even try. Then due to psychological/optical circumstances too complicated to describe and beyond my control, I started taking it out with me, and just bingo, wow, what IS supposed to be the big problem with this? I live in New Mexico and there are a lot of long views and distant birds. With this binocular, what I could barely make out with 8x as houses 20 miles away showed windows and doors, what I could see as "cars" at 8x 2 miles away became Range Rovers and Fords. And the distant bird-ID ability was simply not fair to any companion with an 8x. I cheated. I had the 12. "come put your 12 on this bird Ron, it's too far off for me." The effect was intoxicating. Too much power to hold them steady? Huh?

Either an Ultravid or a Swarovision would be something else again. But it's the magnification that's really the thing. I shall have myself another 12x.

Not so great for warblers right over your head though!
Ron
 
Last edited:
Thanks so much for your responses on the 12 x 50s. My partner and I usually take our Pentax scope along when we bird together, but I love the Leica Ultravid HDs and never bird without them - even when I'm looking at warblers "straight up".
I think that there is a very large difference between the Leica Ultravid HDs and the Swarovski Els and all the rest of the 12 x 50s made at the moment. I went out to look at stars with a bunch of keen astronomers last fall and found that they were amazed at how easy the Leicas were to hold and focus. They had some amazing scopes but I was surprised at how long it took for them to get ready to look at something. While they were figiting with their adjustments, I was enjoying a good view of some planets and the details on the moon. Once they were fully set up, it was "no contest" because they could focus in on the rims of the escarpments on the moon and make them look as close as our local mountains - but I got awfully cold waiting for them to get set up!
I bought the Leica's for birding after using a very high quality set of 10 x 42s for five years and I just take it for granted now that I will see birds well with the 12 x 50s, with no shake no matter how windy it is, how cold I am, or how long ago I ate breakfast. They focus well down to 11 feet and I really don't notice any problem with the field of view or chromatic abberation. In fact, the Leicas make me feel as if I am sitting in the same tree as the bird I am watching. It might be because I have already trained myself by using 10xs but I don't think so.
Because I was using a "demo" pair of the Leica Ultravid HDs when I got my 12 x 50s, I made sure that I passed them around a lot, not only to very experienced birders but also to complete beginners. None of them had any trouble locating a bird sitting or flying. The usual reaction that I got from very experienced birders was, "Wow!"
That's why I was interested in the Swarovski El 12 x 50s because I just watched the short video Swarovski is circulating of a small busload of the world's most experienced and most well-known birders all equipped with the Swarovski 12 x 50s for a day of birding. Mostly, they all said, "Wow", and I was pretty sure that a bunch of them would soon be buying themselves a set of Swarovski 12xs.
I think we may just be on the cusp where our expectations of what is possible with a set of 12xs has just made an exponential jump. I haven't ever used any of the less expensive "big binoculars" but I suspect that they just haven't been suitable for real birding up to now. They look heavy and clumsy and probably are.
But don't take my word for it. Go have a look through either pair of the Leicas or the Swarovskis 12xs and I think you will introduce yourself to a whole new way of birding. I've always birded but I haven't had unlimited time until I retired recently. I figure that the years I have for birding are limited, and I want the best view of the birds that I can get! I was really glad that I didn't listen to the people who told me years ago that 10xs wouldn't work for chasing warblers and I'm not listening to people now who tell me that I can't possibly track them with the new 12xs either.
 
Riverbank said:
Thanks so much for your responses on the 12 x 50s. My partner and I usually take our Pentax scope along when we bird together, but I love the Leica Ultravid HDs and never bird without them - even when I'm looking at warblers "straight up".
I think that there is a very large difference between the Leica Ultravid HDs and the Swarovski Els and all the rest of the 12 x 50s made at the moment. I went out to look at stars with a bunch of keen astronomers last fall and found that they were amazed at how easy the Leicas were to hold and focus. They had some amazing scopes but I was surprised at how long it took for them to get ready to look at something. While they were figiting with their adjustments, I was enjoying a good view of some planets and the details on the moon. Once they were fully set up, it was "no contest" because they could focus in on the rims of the escarpments on the moon and make them look as close as our local mountains - but I got awfully cold waiting for them to get set up!
I bought the Leica's for birding after using a very high quality set of 10 x 42s for five years and I just take it for granted now that I will see birds well with the 12 x 50s, with no shake no matter how windy it is, how cold I am, or how long ago I ate breakfast. They focus well down to 11 feet and I really don't notice any problem with the field of view or chromatic abberation. In fact, the Leicas make me feel as if I am sitting in the same tree as the bird I am watching. It might be because I have already trained myself by using 10xs but I don't think so.
Because I was using a "demo" pair of the Leica Ultravid HDs when I got my 12 x 50s, I made sure that I passed them around a lot, not only to very experienced birders but also to complete beginners. None of them had any trouble locating a bird sitting or flying. The usual reaction that I got from very experienced birders was, "Wow!"
That's why I was interested in the Swarovski El 12 x 50s because I just watched the short video Swarovski is circulating of a small busload of the world's most experienced and most well-known birders all equipped with the Swarovski 12 x 50s for a day of birding. Mostly, they all said, "Wow", and I was pretty sure that a bunch of them would soon be buying themselves a set of Swarovski 12xs.
I think we may just be on the cusp where our expectations of what is possible with a set of 12xs has just made an exponential jump. I haven't ever used any of the less expensive "big binoculars" but I suspect that they just haven't been suitable for real birding up to now. They look heavy and clumsy and probably are.
But don't take my word for it. Go have a look through either pair of the Leicas or the Swarovskis 12xs and I think you will introduce yourself to a whole new way of birding. I've always birded but I haven't had unlimited time until I retired recently. I figure that the years I have for birding are limited, and I want the best view of the birds that I can get! I was really glad that I didn't listen to the people who told me years ago that 10xs wouldn't work for chasing warblers and I'm not listening to people now who tell me that I can't possibly track them with the new 12xs either.
Click to expand...

Not long now my SV12 will be coming up to its first birthday, and i am still in awe of the views it gives your eyeballs, quite simply it has been a revelation.
Soon after its arrival i was so taken with it i decided to offload my other alphas, i just didn't need them any more, i dont miss any of them, compared to the 12SV they seemed mediocre.

Enjoy your 12x50 :t:
 
Riverbank said:
...the 12 x 50s, with no shake no matter how windy it is, how cold I am, or how long ago I ate breakfast.
.
Click to expand...

impossible : they are to heavy for longtime viewing !!
i had a leica 10x50 HD and after a time always schoulder pain and in the neck, and also shake, so bought me a 10 x42 swarovision : now mutch better , no more pain and a less shake after a time . ;)
 
pimpelmees said:
impossible : they are to heavy for longtime viewing !!
i had a leica 10x50 HD and after a time always schoulder pain and in the neck, and also shake, so bought me a 10 x42 swarovision : now mutch better , no more pain and a less shake after a time . ;)
Click to expand...

Impossible???? they may be heavy for you but they are not for me, and after nearly a year with them i think i would know dont you.
 
Something to consider when looking at these two models is eye relief swaro is 19mm and leica are 13mm, I found the leica's to have slight crowding in or vinetting compared to the swaro, just my 2cents worth......Raptor.
 
I am considering a 12x50 and can't decide between these. 12x50 Ultravid or 12x50 EL.
What it comes down to at this point is overdrive past infinity, I have -5D myopia (same both eyes) and like to use binos without eyewear. So overdrive past infinity is critical. I know Zeiss goes to at least -6D, so does Swarovski EL 12x50 (but curiously not the 10x50 EL).
I know historically old Trinovids never exceeded -4D which has been an issue as otherwise I find the view most excellent and design robust. I need the 12x50 Ultravid HD Plus to have at least -6D of overdrive. I keep the diopter correction at zero.
 
If you particularly like them, Leica might be able to shift the overdrive at the expense of a little close focus, but I'd check before purchase and be prepared for a few weeks for them to do it.
 
Riverbank said:
Hi, I've been using the Leica Ultravid 12 x 50's for almost three years now. I borrowed the first 'demo' pair to come into town in order to check them out and after waiting more than a year and a half for another pair to get here, I finally bought the ones that I had been using all along.
If anyone is thinking of moving up to a set of 12 x 50s and wonders if they will be able to hold them steady or locate a bird easily without scanning madly in all directions, I'd be happy to answer your questions.
Out here on the west coast of Canada where a lot of the birding is done looking out to sea through clouds and mist, these are the greatest bins. I previously used a lovely old pair of B & L Elite 10 x 42s but I found that I often had to reach for the scope to see everything that I wanted to see.
The Leica 12 x 50s have been a real joy. Everyone had warned me that I would never be able to hold them steady but that was never a problem for me or for anyone else I loaned them to. The field of view is a little reduced but the picture is so clear that I feel like I am in it, instead of peering down a tube to look at the bird. Even after it is too dark to tell the colours of a bird with the naked eye, the Leicas let me see what I'm looking at in colour, giving me the gift of an extra 30 minutes of birding at dawn and another 30 minutes at dusk.
I really love my Leicas when I have left the scope in the car and can still get a good view of a bird that jumps up in front of me. I don't have any trouble scanning with them. In fact, the 12 x 50s are so good that my partner wants a pair now - either another pair of Leicas or the new Swarovski El 12 x 50s. Has anyone out there made a comparison between these two bins? I'd love to hear your views about which is the clearest and easiest to use.
Click to expand...

Riverbank,

Heres hoping someone with direct real world experience with both models will weigh in. Meantime to the extent relevant and assuming the HD+ 10x and 12x50 are the same size and weight, the FP SW 12X50 is noticeably smaller and lighter than the HD+ 10x50.

Mike
 
Paultricounty said:
I’m assuming you mean on diopter setting range🤔🙏
Click to expand...

In that context, yes. I like Leica view and I like Leica build quality.
But they are stuck in 1980's. These new Ultravids are just well-upgraded Trinovids.
Not that there is anything wrong with the Trinovid. I had one and it was fantastic.
The only problem, the overdrive past infinity went up to only -4D. The EL Series I upgraded to had about -6D. Not a relevant bit of info if your myopia is under 4D and very relevant if you are over 4D.
 
mwhogue said:
Riverbank,

Heres hoping someone with direct real world experience with both models will weigh in. Meantime to the extent relevant and assuming the HD+ 10x and 12x50 are the same size and weight, the FP SW 12X50 is noticeably smaller and lighter than the HD+ 10x50.

Mike
Click to expand...

I am not sure that smaller and lighter scores any points. Give me some weight. I like build quality and weight involved.
 
etc said:
In that context, yes. I like Leica view and I like Leica build quality.
But they are stuck in 1980's. These new Ultravids are just well-upgraded Trinovids.
Not that there is anything wrong with the Trinovid. I had one and it was fantastic.
The only problem, the overdrive past infinity went up to only -4D. The EL Series I upgraded to had about -6D. Not a relevant bit of info if your myopia is under 4D and very relevant if you are over 4D.
Click to expand...
I have to cordially disagree. Putting aside the continuing inprovments in build quality and being second to none in that area, I happen to be of the opinion that the Ultravids are quite a step up from Trinovids. I can also say that countless other people that I observe with who have had the pleasure of not only using my collection of binoculars but many of their own , that the Leica’s are optically competitive to anything on the market today. Ultaravids are on par with ELs, FL’s , in my opinion superior to SFL’s , which are new offerings. The Noctivids are a newer entry that takes the Ultravid to the next level and is as good as SF’ in many ways and with less issues , like the deadly blue ring, green color hues, eyebox issues for some. Same for the NL’s , issues abound for some, glare, ergos, blackouts. Leica didn’t fall into the trap going for paper statistics race, it’s all about the image.

So my summation is that Leica holds their own with the Zeiss and swarovski. Just goes about it a little differently. 🙏🏼

Paul
 

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