Swarovski ELSV 12x50??? (1 Viewer)

PeterPS said:

Adhoc:

I think it depends quite a bit on the landscape. For instance if you pan with an SV 8.5x42 over the trunks of the trees in a grove, with out-of-focus undergrowth between you and the grove, you are almost guaranteed to see some RB effect. However if you scan a landscape with few vertical features, such as a field, then I don't think you'll see any serious RB.

Peter

Click to expand...

Peter:

You should speak for yourself, only around 2% of the population will
ever be bothered by the RB effect. And many of those will easily
get used to it.

This RB topic is very overused, and I like to call those on it, and educate
with a few facts.

Jerry

Perhaps we could have Brock back and re-enlighten us about the topic of RB.

Andy W.

Sorry I have made a blunder in my post #19 above.
After defining A and B they are then swapped in my account!
It is now a bit too late for me to be able to correct it within that post.
In reading post #19 after the definition please swap A and B!

With regard to post #21 by Jerry,
from what I have gathered, in this forum and in the experience of friends,
it seems that the % of those who see RB (or rolling globe, or whatever)
may be as high as 1/3 or even 1/2 of all those who use binoculars.
(That is an impression, a guess, formed as above. I have not counted!)
How many of them then "unsee" it, for a while or for good, I do not know.

When I come back here to edit this post I see Peter's post below,
and have now changed, above, "experience RB" to "see RB", for clarity.

only around 2% of the population will
ever be bothered by the RB effect.

This RB topic is very overused, and I like to call those on it, and educate
with a few facts.

Click to expand...

Jerry,

Note that there is a big difference between seeing the RB effect and being affected/bothered by it. The percentage of people bothered by RB is of course much smaller, but I have no idea where you got your 2% from---do you have any reference?

Much has been written and said about RB (in particular Holger has written extensively about it), and I doubt we can add anything really useful to the topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Peter

NDhunter said:

Peter:

You should speak for yourself, only around 2% of the population will
ever be bothered by the RB effect. And many of those will easily
get used to it.

This RB topic is very overused, and I like to call those on it, and educate
with a few facts.

Jerry

Click to expand...

Yes, I see something like that, in Europe Swarovski is absolute market leader in the top binoculars, including many ELs, if RB were such a big topic most people would probably rather buy Leica's still using the conventional optical designs.
But Leica is quite knocked off behind Swarovski and Zeiss.

Andreas

PeterPS said:

Jerry,

Note that there is a big difference between seeing the RB effect and being affected/bothered by it. The percentage of people bothered by RB is of course much smaller, but I have no idea where you got your 2% from---do you have any reference?

Much has been written and said about RB (in particular Holger has written extensively about it), and I doubt we can add anything really useful to the topic, so I'll leave it at that.

Peter

Click to expand...

This was discussed some years ago, and Zeiss had done a study on
the topic, and that is where the 2% number came from.

That should be useful, and why RB should not be such a big thing.

Jerry

NDhunter said:

This was discussed some years ago, and Zeiss had done a study on
the topic, and that is where the 2% number came from.

That should be useful, and why RB should not be such a big thing.

Jerry

Click to expand...

Jerry,

I remember one of your posts of about 1 year ago in which you said: "according to Zeiss only 2-5% of the population will even be affected", so we are not too far apart. Holger, who has studied the RB extensively has suggested a larger percentage:

"Regarding your remark about the globe effect I have to disagree. At least 30% should be able to see the globe effect in binoculars with close to zero pincushion distortion. If this had been such a non issue you would like us to believe, why then has Zeiss introduced the pincushion distortion in the late 1940s? The globe effect was an issue, and it was regarded sufficiently harmful so that they decided to deliberately add an aberration to their optical design. Most optical designers around the globe followed them."

Unlike Holger I am not researching the RB effect and thus I cannot contribute anything useful beyond what he and others have written about it. I am not sensitive to it, but I know that others are. Determining how many are affected by RB would require a well designed statistical study, and I have not seen Zeiss report (you are often referring to it, but do you have an exact reference or a link?), and therefore cannot tell you if their sampling strategy was sound.

Peter

NDhunter said:

Peter:

You should speak for yourself, only around 2% of the population will
ever be bothered by the RB effect. And many of those will easily
get used to it.

This RB topic is very overused, and I like to call those on it, and educate
with a few facts.

Jerry

Click to expand...

PeterPS said:

Adhoc:

I think it depends quite a bit on the landscape. For instance if you pan with an SV 8.5x42 over the trunks of the trees in a grove, with out-of-focus undergrowth between you and the grove, you are almost guaranteed to see some RB effect. However if you scan a landscape with few vertical features, such as a field, then I don't think you'll see any serious RB.Peter

Click to expand...

Peter:

This is complete jabber wonky, "almost guaranteed", what a laugh.

Absolutely not true, not sure your intent.

Jerry

Jerry,

This should be a busy period for you and I am glad if I put a smile on your face. You have also made me smile: you have done everything possible to avoid giving us the exact reference for the Zeiss report from which you got your 2%. At any rate, between your 2% and Holger's 30% I choose Holger's every day of the week (the exact reference for 30%: post 11 in the following thread: https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=308250; and to be precise he said "more than 30%")

Peter

PS. I have 8 binos with near zero pincushion and I like them all---as far as I am concerned there is no contradiction between seeing the RB effect in a bino and liking that bino, unless you are sensitive to RB.

Gentlemen
And this means Jerry and Peter.
Your discussion has been lively and interesting but it is clear that you are going to have to agree to disagree.

Lee
Moderator