Zeiss Victory SF & Swarovski EL comparison? (1 Viewer)

Zeiss Victory SF & Swarovski EL & Nikon EDG comparison?

For anyone who has tried two or all of them, how do the similarly priced Zeiss Victory SF, Swarovski EL and Nikon EDG compare in terms of optics, image quality and ergonomics/usability? Also, at this class of optic, is there any difference in warranty and support between these companies?

For the USA, the Zeiss warranty is superior to the the Nikon warranty. Zeiss offers in writing, a lifetime materials and workmanship warranty that can be transferred to subsequent owners. They also offer a 5 year no fault policy. For whatever reason, they have not updated their website to add the SF to the list of binoculars that are covered under the no fault policy, but there is a sticker on the boxes from Zeiss USA that say "No Fault Policy - If it breaks, we fix it. Period". Zeiss USA customer service has been getting some excellent feed back over the last couple of years that I have been paying attention.

Here is a link to the Zeiss USA coverage page. Click on the tabs part way down for Warranty and for Policy.

http://www.zeiss.com/sports-optics/...support/customer-service.html#no-fault-policy

Nikon had great USA coverage until about a year ago. Now the binocular is covered lifetime for parts and material to the original owner. The warranty can no longer be transferred to a subsequent owner and the is no longer a no fault policy. What is worse, they made the changes retroactive. That speaks poorly for Nikon, in my opinion.

Here is a thread discussing the Nikon changes.

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=292997&highlight=warranty

Swarovski has an excellent reputation for customer service and good will. I do not know the USA written coverage, but I suspect some of what they do is under customer goodwill, not the written requirements. There was a post sometime in the last year that discussed the written coverage. Maybe someone can find it and post a link.

Based on store and field experience, my preferences for the 10X42 models are 3rd - Swaro EL Swarovision (mostly store and field on a 12X), 2nd - Nikon EDG (field), 1st - Zeiss SF (field). If buyjng new at non sale or rebate pricing, I would go first with the SF, but then the Swaro over the Nikon because of the resale value and warranty. All three are excellent binoculars, so it may come down to priorities on the various attributes of each and possibly current pricing via promotions or what is on the used market.

When buying a Swarovski EL, be sure to check the model number. I think there are several generations of them.

In follow-up to ads's post ......

Based on what I have read over time here on the Forum, there are two generations of the Swarovski EL. The first is the non Swarovision model which does not use lens flatteners and does not have ED glass. It is normally referenced, for example, Swarovski EL WB 10X42. The second and newest generation looks similar but does have styling changes. It has ED glass and lens flatteners. The 10X is often referenced as Swarovski EL SV 10X42, with the SV meaning Swarovision. However, it is also a WB, so it can be confusing when someone is talking about a WB. I think WB stands for wide angle and twist up eye cups.

Keep in mind that Swarovski made in stream changes to the first generation. One change was to increase the focus speed and also coatings improved over time.

There was an interesting thread a not that long ago showing pictures of the objective ends an early second generation SV model and current SV model. The objective lenses were recessed more into the body in the newest version. That indicates there may be in stream changes to the SV models. Too bad there was not more discussion on that topic.

BruceH said:

In follow-up to ads's post ......

Based on what I have read over time here on the Forum, there are two generations of the Swarovski EL. The first is the non Swarovision model which does not use lens flatteners and does not have ED glass. It is normally referenced, for example, Swarovski EL WB 10X42. The second and newest generation looks similar but does have styling changes. It has ED glass and lens flatteners. The 10X is often referenced as Swarovski EL SV 10X42, with the SV meaning Swarovision. However, it is also a WB, so it can be confusing when someone is talking about a WB. I think WB stands for wide angle and twist up eye cups.

Keep in mind that Swarovski made in stream changes to the first generation. One change was to increase the focus speed and also coatings improved over time.


There was an interesting thread a not that long ago showing pictures of the objective ends an early second generation SV model and current SV model. The objective lenses were recessed more into the body in the newest version. That indicates there may be in stream changes to the SV models. Too bad there was not more discussion on that topic.

Click to expand...

I didn't pay attention to the Obective lenses, but found that the sv8.5x seems have less rolling ball effect. Just curious if SW had made some adjustment. Sadly I have sold the first generation SV, o/wise I could do a A/B comparsion.

Regarding objective lens recess, that was an early prototype SV that was mentioned, not the finished product. No changes have been made in that regard.

I doubt there have been any optical changes either, because outside the confines of BF rolling ball remains something of a mystery.

Coatings, I don't know.

But I will compare my "early" 8.5x42 SV (2010) to the latest. We shall see.

Mark

PS: I can't remember which thread it was in but Kimmo recently commented that he compared an early SV (original display sample) to a recent one and he thought they looked identical optically.

One big difference is the formats that are offered:

The Zeiss Victory SF is only available in 8x42 and 10x42 models, nothing in 32.
The Nikon EDG has a 7x42 model.
The Swarovski EL has a 10x50 and 12x50 models.

Another difference is that it's easy to find a factory-reconditioned Nikon EDG for around $1,000.

Update to Nikon USA Warranty Comment

I just found out Nikon USA has recently reinstated a No Fault Policy while I was browsing the net for some Nikon specs. Attached is a screen print of what I came across.

I called Nikon Support to get the deals. Even the agent was unaware of the change and had to check. There appears to be nothing else on the web about the Limited Warranty or the No Fault Policy other than this screen shot. Here is my understanding from our conversation:

- Lifetime materials and workmanship continues as the Limit Lifetime Warranty. Customer pays shipping to Nikon. This is not transferable.
- Lifetime no fault to the original customer. Customer pays shipping to Nikon. This is not transferable.

I would like to see what warranty detail they are now putting in the boxes since the recent change. They used to have the Limited Warranty posted on the web. Now they do not so that makes me suspect there are some changes.

BruceH said:

...........
Swarovski has an excellent reputation for customer service and good will. I do not know the USA written coverage, but I suspect some of what they do is under customer goodwill, not the written requirements. There was a post sometime in the last year that discussed the written coverage. Maybe someone can find it and post a link.
.........

Click to expand...

This may be the post I was thinking of. It contains a link to the Swaro USA written warranty.

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3187519&postcount=11

BruceH said:

............
There was an interesting thread a not that long ago showing pictures of the objective ends an early second generation SV model and current SV model. The objective lenses were recessed more into the body in the newest version. That indicates there may be in stream changes to the SV models. Too bad there was not more discussion on that topic.

Click to expand...

Kammerdiner said:

Regarding objective lens recess, that was an early prototype SV that was mentioned, not the finished product. No changes have been made in that regard.
.......
Mark

Click to expand...

I finally came across the elusive thread discussing changes to the objective ends of the SV EL.

Here is the post that I was thinking of that shows the cut-away photos of the two binoculars .....

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3191981&postcount=58



Here is a following post in that same thread where Dr. Gijs Van Ginkel says the following about the above photo he posted .....

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3192174&postcount=62

...... The top image shows, as I mentioned, an early production of a 42 mm Swar. SV and what is striking in comparison with the later production in the picture below is the difference in the objective construction.
The objective lenses in the latest SV production are deeper into the binocular body, which helps as a sun shade. Gijs

That was the comment that indicated to me that there was an ongoing production change. The comment used the words "early production" rather than prototype and went on to state that the objectives in the "latest sv production" are deeper.


However there is a different set of pictures earlier in the thread that look to be of the same cutaways where Gijis says .....



One photo is from the pre production series and the other one is the current SV. There is a big difference in objective built up.

This indicates the top binocular is a prototype and I suspect that post is the basis for Mark's comment.

Assuming the photos are of the same cutaway, it is now confusing to me if the top binocular is a prototype or an early production unit.

Hi..
I have the Zeiss Victory HT and the Swarovski SV both 10x42s…. Honestly- I can't tell the difference optically. I used the HT more…I like the big focus adjustment….the HT fits better in my harness too.. HT is less expensive in most cases….I'd be happy with either...

BruceH said:

I finally came across the elusive thread discussing changes to the objective ends of the SV EL.

Here is the post that I was thinking of that shows the cut-away photos of the two binoculars .....

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3191981&postcount=58

Here is a following post in that same thread where Dr. Gijs Van Ginkel says the following about the above photo he posted .....

http://www.birdforum.net/showpost.php?p=3192174&postcount=62

...... The top image shows, as I mentioned, an early production of a 42 mm Swar. SV and what is striking in comparison with the later production in the picture below is the difference in the objective construction.
The objective lenses in the latest SV production are deeper into the binocular body, which helps as a sun shade. Gijs

That was the comment that indicated to me that there was an ongoing production change. The comment used the words "early production" rather than prototype and went on to state that the objectives in the "latest sv production" are deeper.


However there is a different set of pictures earlier in the thread that look to be of the same cutaways where Gijis says .....

One photo is from the pre production series and the other one is the current SV. There is a big difference in objective built up.

This indicates the top binocular is a prototype and I suspect that post is the basis for Mark's comment.

Assuming the photos are of the same cutaway, it is now confusing to me if the top binocular is a prototype or an early production unit.

Click to expand...

Bruce:

I am not sure about the first picture, but the top binocular looks to be a 32mm of some type, and the bottom is a 42mm.

The 2nd picture shows the SV, and the bottom binocular looks just
like the one I have which is the 8.5x42 SV a first year 2010 model.

Both pictures show the same binoculars just positioned a bit differently. Both of the bottom ones are the same.

So it seems there have been no changes since they were introduced.

Jerry

It is confusing.

The 2 photos in thread 12 are taken at different angles to the binoculars and in the top photo both binoculars appear to be 42mm but are cut through at different points on the objective tubes.

Bob

My understanding is the top binocular in each of the two photos is a 42 mm, assuming the two different photos are of the same binoculars.

Per the post by Dr. Gijs Van Ginkel "The top image shows, as I mentioned, an early production of a 42 mm Swar. SV".

ceasar said:

It is confusing.

The 2 photos in thread 12 are taken at different angles to the binoculars and in the top photo both binoculars appear to be 42mm but are cut through at different points on the objective tubes.

Bob

Click to expand...

Bob:

Now I see that, the bottom one was cut right near the middle,
whereas the top one was partially cut, so it looks smaller.

Jerry

On this thread

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?p=3240869#post3240869

Jan van Daalen says that the pre-production sample is an 8.5x42 EL SV and the others in the pictures are 10x42 EL SV's. In one of the photos there was also a cutaway of an original non-SV EL.

I'm wondering about the cutouts in the present thread. It looks like the top binocular in them has SV body armoring but a simple eyepiece construction without a doublet flattener, and a considerably different objective design. Perhaps Swaro made a sort of "dummy" pre-production run which showed the new exterior design but utilized the old EL optical design? These two cutouts look too different to be of the same binocular, updates or not.

Until Jan or Gijs post a more definitive explanation we might not know what the photos show.

Kimmo