checking for faults? (1 Viewer)

chris6 · Dec 29, 2018

I can't remember where I read about it but, when they just don't feel right, it seems that binoculars might be checked by doing the following. Holding the binoculars level at half-arms-length while addressing a horizontal edge straight ahead, such as guttering or a window frame:-

It is somehow feasible to allow the eyes to relax so that each one sees an image through the eyepiece on its own side. It can take a few tries but eventually both images can be observed separately, but at the same time, when it feels just like looking into the distance.

Then it seems normal for the guttering/window frame to look continuous, but perhaps it is a confirmation of something wrong if one eye sees the guttering at a different level than the other.

Particularly when the guttering is discontinuous, I think there may also be differences in the colour tint between the two images, or in apparent size or sharpness (dioptre setting having been carefully checked in advance).

I take it that this might be a way of eliminating any adjustments by the viewer's eyes, which might otherwise largely or partly mask problems, but is this 'test' any good please? and, apart from apparent discontinuity of horizontal straight lines, what might such other effects indicate?

Foss · Dec 29, 2018

You'll likely get some very good advice as to how to check collimation. I aim and focus the binoculars at an object with a strong X/Y axis such as a distant telephone pole with cross members several blocks away.
Hold the binos about 3 inches from my eyes and blink rapidly. Repeat several times. No ghost images should appear. When weather permits and the night skies are clear, stars should be single pinpoints of light.
(In general, the human eye is said to correct better for horizontal disparities than vertical, so a rain gutter test might miss something).

WJC · Dec 29, 2018

chris6 said:
I can't remember where I read about it but, when they just don't feel right, it seems that binoculars might be checked by doing the following. Holding the binoculars level at half-arms-length while addressing a horizontal edge straight ahead, such as guttering or a window frame:-

It is somehow feasible to allow the eyes to relax so that each one sees an image through the eyepiece on its own side. It can take a few tries but eventually both images can be observed separately, but at the same time, when it feels just like looking into the distance.

Then it seems normal for the guttering/window frame to look continuous, but perhaps it is a confirmation of something wrong if one eye sees the guttering at a different level than the other.

Particularly when the guttering is discontinuous, I think there may also be differences in the colour tint between the two images, or in apparent size or sharpness (dioptre setting having been carefully checked in advance).

I take it that this might be a way of eliminating any adjustments by the viewer's eyes, which might otherwise largely or partly mask problems, but is this 'test' any good please? and, apart from apparent discontinuity of horizontal straight lines, what might such other effects indicate?

Hi, Chris:

The collimation “tips” on the Internet will convey how to do some willy-nilly screw tweaking to align your binocular WELL ENOUGH to serve you. This is “conditional alignment,” NOT “collimation.” That condition being based on your personal visual accommodation for stereoscopic disparity. Furthermore, they don’t bother telling you that following their advice may cause you to misalign your bino even more. The reason? ... They don’t know. :cat:

Bill

james holdsworth · Dec 29, 2018

I think he's asking how to determine if he has a problem, not how to fix it...

chris6 · Dec 29, 2018

Foss said:
You'll likely get some very good advice as to how to check collimation. I aim and focus the binoculars at an object with a strong X/Y axis such as a distant telephone pole with cross members several blocks away.
Hold the binos about 3 inches from my eyes and blink rapidly. Repeat several times. No ghost images should appear. When weather permits and the night skies are clear, stars should be single pinpoints of light.
(In general, the human eye is said to correct better for horizontal disparities than vertical, so a rain gutter test might miss something).

Thanks I need to look into that.

WJC · Dec 29, 2018

james holdsworth said:
I think he's asking how to determine if he has a problem, not how to fix it...

If he THINKS he has a problem ... he has a problem. It's the people who want to conduct "TESTS" to SEE if they have a problem who needn't worry. People who specifically LOOK for problems will find them every time. :cat:

chris6 · Dec 29, 2018

WJC said:
Hi, Chris:

The collimation “tips” on the Internet will convey how to do some willy-nilly screw tweaking to align your binocular WELL ENOUGH to serve you. This is “conditional alignment,” NOT “collimation.” That condition being based on your personal visual accommodation for stereoscopic disparity. Furthermore, they don’t bother telling you that following their advice may cause you to misalign your bino even more. The reason? ... They don’t know. :cat:

Bill

Cheers Bill, James is right and I have gathered that collimation requires much expertise and special equipment so I wouldn't want to try to try fiddling with screws, especially when I would not understand what the effects might be :h?:

WJC · Dec 29, 2018

chris6 said:
Cheers Bill, James is right and I have gathered that collimation requires much expertise and special equipment so I wouldn't want to try to try fiddling with screws, especially when I would not understand what the effects might be :h?:

No, Chris:

It just requires more than that pablum soaked garbage on the internet. Send me your REAL email address and I will give you the straight-skinny as soon as the dust settles from Christmas. If it were hard ... I couldn't do it. :cat:

[email protected]

Bill

chris6 · Dec 29, 2018

WJC said:
No, Chris:

It just requires more than that pablum soaked garbage on the internet. Send me your REAL email address and I will give you the straight-skinny as soon as the dust settles from Christmas. If it were hard ... I couldn't do it. :cat:

Bill

Cheers Bill

That will be very interesting...

NDhunter · Dec 29, 2018

Foss said:
You'll likely get some very good advice as to how to check collimation. I aim and focus the binoculars at an object with a strong X/Y axis such as a distant telephone pole with cross members several blocks away.
Hold the binos about 3 inches from my eyes and blink rapidly. Repeat several times. No ghost images should appear. When weather permits and the night skies are clear, stars should be single pinpoints of light.
(In general, the human eye is said to correct better for horizontal disparities than vertical, so a rain gutter test might miss something).

This is good advice, and I do it a bit differently, and I check every binocular
that I purchase.

Look at a distant target such as power lines, poles, road signs, and it is better at a longer distance such as 1/2 mile or a bit more. If you can do
this on a tripod, even easier.

Carefully focus normally, and then close your eyes and put the binocular around 8-12" away from your face. Then look again and the target should be
in focus as before. If there is a vertical or horizontal change, then the
binocular is out of collimation. I have found this on brand new binoculars,
and from high end manufacturers.

A person can handle some slight misalignment due to your eyes and brain making accommodation for the problem. What happens though is you will
have some eye strain, and you will not feel comfortable viewing. So check things out if this is something you are experiencing.

Jerry

chris6 · Dec 31, 2018

Foss said:
You'll likely get some very good advice as to how to check collimation. I aim and focus the binoculars at an object with a strong X/Y axis such as a distant telephone pole with cross members several blocks away.
Hold the binos about 3 inches from my eyes and blink rapidly. Repeat several times. No ghost images should appear. When weather permits and the night skies are clear, stars should be single pinpoints of light.
(In general, the human eye is said to correct better for horizontal disparities than vertical, so a rain gutter test might miss something).

NDhunter,
Thanks too.

Foss,
I believe that a comparison of the views with each barrel, of a horizontal straight line, may be the one for vertical disparity.

I left out the matter of whether or not spectacles are in use but, if needed, they would need to be of a reliable recent prescription. I can see that minor faults in alignment could be handled by the eye/brain as they do normally in 'accommodation', when the head is tilted, or when glasses are probably needed but are not being used.

Therefore a Devil's Advocate might say it is doubtful that eyes could really be 'tired' by making such adjustments and that minor alignment problems with binoculars should not matter too much. However, If they are more than marginal I think they may produce a sensation that something is not right, or even of minor discomfort, so they should not really be present.

I have noticed that the check I mentioned can also bring out any differences in the facility to focus and/or in the tint of the images at the same time as in defective vertical alignment. I wondered if they could be somehow directly linked to it, or whether it would irrelevant as a coincidence... and think that perhaps in normal use such other faults could spoil the view even more.

NDhunter · Dec 31, 2018

One thing that is very important when testing for faults is setting the proper IPD for the
binocular. That issue comes up on here frequently, as a problem when viewing.

I have tested collimation using a flat tripod mount, as many as 10 units in a short time.

Minor alignment differences can be very important when viewing for hours at a time.
That is common for those that watch wildlife, with 15X tripod mounted binoculars.

Jerry

ailevin · Jan 1, 2019

WJC said:
Hi, Chris:

The collimation “tips” on the Internet will convey how to do some willy-nilly screw tweaking to align your binocular WELL ENOUGH to serve you. This is “conditional alignment,” NOT “collimation.” That condition being based on your personal visual accommodation for stereoscopic disparity. Furthermore, they don’t bother telling you that following their advice may cause you to misalign your bino even more. The reason? ... They don’t know. :cat:

Bill

Bill,

I think you have come up with a good name for a band: The Willy Nilly Screw Tweakers.

A wise man once told me that a binocular worth adjusting should be adjusted by a professional.

Happy New Year, and keep up the creative phrasing.

Alan

WJC · Jan 3, 2019

ailevin said:
Bill,

I think you have come up with a good name for a band: The Willy Nilly Screw Tweakers.

A wise man once told me that a binocular worth adjusting should be adjusted by a professional.

Happy New Year, and keep up the creative phrasing.

Alan

Hey, don’t make fun. They’re not thought of much these days. But back in the ‘70s—when they were at the top of their game—they were right up there with Jethro Tool, Ba-Na-Na, and The Little Bitty Dirt Can!

As for bino collimation, I have said something similar if not a duplicate. I think the person with a bino from one of the big three should send their bino to them—so as not to fowl the warranty. However, all others need not go to a professional. My only concern there would be that:

They know the CORRECT PROCEDURE and perform it at PROFESSIONAL LEVEL ... that’s all.

So many of the tasks involved with binocular repair require only a few small hand tools, a bit of common sense, and a generous portion of patience. For the right individual—with the right setup and a REALISTIC understanding of the procedure—collimation is no more difficult. It would be easier than learning to ride a bike and considerably less painful. But with so many folks overwhelmed by the myriad posts on the Internet purporting how easy it is just to look at a power pole ....

“I would like to be a nice person. Yet, I hope this little book drives a stake through the heart of that insidious and deplorable notion that a clinically accurate binocular collimation job can be “easily” accomplished by the haphazard tweaking a few through-the-body prism adjustment screws on whichever side feels good at the time.”

When the collimation error is small and/or the observer’s accommodation for a stereoscopic disparity is adequate, CoAl (conditional alignment) might serve the observer quite well. However, the armchair opticians promoting the exercise uniformly fail to tell them that severe problems might lie within the activity. Do you feel lucky? :cat:

Bill

richard866945 · Jan 4, 2019

Testing a binocular

Hello Chris.

the attached photo shows what you need to really test the alignment.

and hello to WJC. I have a simpler collimator that I use on my bench.
I'll try to make time to photograph that .

Regards Richard

chris6 · Jan 4, 2019

Hi Richard. Interesting to see what the gear looks like

WJC · Jan 4, 2019

richard866945 said:
Hello Chris.

the attached photo shows what you need to really test the alignment.

and hello to WJC. I have a simpler collimator that I use on my bench.
I'll try to make time to photograph that .

Regards Richard

Hi, Richard:

That was great! I have already stolen ... I mean LIBERATED that photo. Would you please tell US—or just me in a PM—how it works? And its pedigree? I don’t see a provision for checking an error in the Y axis, unless it is very small.

At any rate, two of the graphics attached are from my up-coming bino book, the name of which I must keep to myself—lest I get my wrist smacked. I will try to get permission to mention it in the very near future (my proof copy from the printers is laying on the desk in front of me) in as much as I believe some would find it beneficial. One of the things that have kept those who endlessly speak of collimation from building a collimator is the perceived cost.

One of the illustrations is of the US Navy Mk 5.

In my collimator, the 2 convex-plano glass lenses have been replaced with a single 12-inch x 1/8th-inch Fresnel lens—remember the concept is about POSITION and not image QUALITY. This makes the whole thing MUCH lighter and only HALF as long.

The second graphic illustrates my version of a test stand that can be made of plywood by an avid do-it-yourselfer from the stuff lying around his garage.

The third photo is of Cory’s newest crop of (for sale) auxiliary scopes. :cat:

Bill

Foss · Jan 6, 2019

Bill: LOVE the schematic that shows how the collimator works. Here's a USN Mark V in all its glory.

WJC · Jan 6, 2019

Foss said:
Bill: LOVE the schematic that shows how the collimator works. Here's a USN Mark V in all its glory.

Is that the unit you sold Oberwerk? :cat:

Bill

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