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Leica, Swaro, Zeiss: thoughts on their colors (1 Viewer)

A2GG

Beth
United States
Recently I had the opportunity to look through Ultravid Plus, Zeiss FL & Swarovski CL (original version) over the course of a couple of weeks. I wasn't intentionally comparing these three, but I eventually noticed the differences in color presentation between the 3 after using each on separate days. I used them on the weekends at the same local park. As the rather distinct color presentation of each became apparent it made me
appreciate the different qualities and character of the views I found in each of them . Certain beautiful images from each are burned in my mind from the few outings at the park in town.

With the the FL I noticed rather strong greens when looking at Pine trees and greenery while other colors seemed normal. This is something I hadn't noticed before with the FL. The Pines looked striking and splendid and I wondered if there could be some color bias happening. I recalled discovering (by accident) a subtle yellow color cast in the Cabelas branded Meopta Meostar hd I had briefly a couple of years ago. I came across this when looking through the Meopta indoors for the first time at night when I first opened the box. Looking at a picture on the wall near a lamp with "daylight" bulb shining against the off white wall, I thought I saw slight tint of yellow or cream color. I grabbed the Ultravid to quickly compare and confirmed a very slight color cast in the Meopta. I've heard this before about the Meostar so I wasn't surprised and it was quickly forgot about when I used it for a weekend. Great binocular btw, but couldn't keep it due to ER a touch too short with my glasses.

So, after noticing intense greens in the FL I checked the wall again to see if I could see any color tint like I did in the Meopta. I did not see any type of color tint.
I was just curious and never had any problem with how greens looked in the FL. I actually thought it looked great and, overall, felt the color presentation in the FL very nice. The light gray coloring of a tufted titmouse looked especially pretty on that day.

After using the CL last weekend on a sunny day I finally realized why I find the view so pleasant. It's the colors.
Light tone colors are illuminated and look just beautiful.
Whites seem super bright and light toned purple, pink, yellows and blues look especially lovely in the CL. It has an overall very pleasing and relaxing color presentation to me.
A Red-bellied Woodpecker looked resplendent with its white brightened by the strong sun and slightly different shades of red on its head and belly. The pink legs and light blue eyering of a mourning dove was another image that stuck with me. A nearby house with a faded light yellow paint, a light purple children's plastic pedal car and other objects with lighter toned colors are what struck me.

The very next day I decided to take out the Ultravid+ to see its distinct color presentation in comparison . With the other 2 bins I wasn't intentionally looking at their colors...they just came to me and I eventually noticed their distinct/unique rendering of colors. But now I wanted to look to purposely see the differences with each and I needed to go back to the same park with the Leica. First look was dramatic (!) compared to the CL used just the previous day. Again, a sunny day which became cloudy later. Colors were obviously deeper, more saturated and boosted edge contrast created an impressive and a bit more intense image . CL has a gentler view and seems less harsh if that makes sense; a bit less dramatic.

Now I have just the Ultravid and CL. The FL was temporary and is gone. I didn't get rid of it for the optics (they're fantastic), but more for ergonomic and other personal considerations.

CL has good contrast and resolution; good separation of tones and is very bright (for 30mm) with wonderful colors. Uvid+ has deeper, richer colors and more contrast. Someone recently (can't recall who) on the forum said Leica is like oil paintings, Swarovski like pastel and Zeiss like watercolor. I generally agree with this and it seems a very good way to describe the different qualities of each IMO. I find the CL to be the closest to neutral than the others.

This is how I see it, but others may see things very differently and please remember the above are only my personal observations and opinions.

Pastel (colors) ... from Wikipedia:

"The colors of this family are usually described as "soothing", "soft", "near neutral", "milky", "washed out", "desaturated", and lacking strong chromatic content. Pink, mauve, and baby blueare commonly used pastel colors, as well as magic mint, periwinkle, and lavender."

Color brightness vs saturation (google search):

"Hue is therefore the actual color. Brightness refers to how much white (or black) is mixed in the color while saturation indicates the amount of grey in a color. A saturation value of 0 indicates mostly grey while 100% luminosity (or L = 255) is white (see charts)."
 
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Nice read GiGi, I find much the same as yourself, my FL favoured the green/blue colours and my Ultravids, incl + the reds with much more colour saturation than my Swaro`s which I find the most neutral.

John.
 
Hello Gilmore Girl,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments

I own a MeoPro 6.5x32, which also had a slight yellow cast. It had to be pointed out to me, as I never noticed in use.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:
 
Thanks for sharing such a thoughtful review of your impressions GiGi.

Lee

Thanks Troubsey. If I was rich perhaps I'd keep all the binos mentioned :)
If I didn't have to wear glasses I think I'd still have that little Meostar.
It has a real nice view and wonderful ergonomic design.
 
Nice read GiGi, I find much the same as yourself, my FL favoured the green/blue colours and my Ultravids, incl + the reds with much more colour saturation than my Swaro`s which I find the most neutral.

John.

I do hope the new CL has the same type Swarovski view in terms of the color presentation. I'm sure it's better technically, but hope they
didn't change its distinct colorization.

Also hope they don't blow it with new ELs if they ever make them. I peeped through 8x32 SV couple years ago for a few hours ... super nice. This is on the top of my list if the Ultravid gets too heavy for me to lug around as I get older.
That day will come when I'll need something lighter as my primary but at a high level like Uvid+. For now I need to keep saving for retirement and not buy anything expensive for some years.
 
Hello Gilmore Girl,

Thanks for your thoughtful comments

I own a MeoPro 6.5x32, which also had a slight yellow cast. It had to be pointed out to me, as I never noticed in use.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood :hi:

Thank you Arthur. Perhaps "yellow tint" sounds a bit strong. Really it's more like a cream tint that is rather slight. Meopta makes great stuff :)
 
GG:
Nice job on your color review. I think you are right on with how I see things, and some brands
do offer a bit of color bias, but it is not enough to bother me.
I enjoy the warmer Leica view, and also Nikon has a warm bias especially in the LX, Premier models
with silver coated prisms. I really think it adds a wow or pop in some cases.

Zeiss has always had high transmission with their color bias, and so they like to push the blue or green
side as you have mentioned.

Objective AR coatings can lead one to see how this may work.

Jerry
 

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Use any of these on an overcast day with snow on the ground [with flat light and snow looking really white] and you will truly appreciate color bias.

My older bins all make whites look distinctly yellowish or brownish, when everything else looks pretty neutral without the snowy backdrop. Conquest HD and FL hint of greenish, Swaro 8.5 very distinctly bluish, HT white, white, white.
 
GG:
Nice job on your color review. I think you are right on with how I see things, and some brands
do offer a bit of color bias, but it is not enough to bother me.
I enjoy the warmer Leica view, and also Nikon has a warm bias especially in the LX, Premier models
with silver coated prisms. I really think it adds a wow or pop in some cases.

Zeiss has always had high transmission with their color bias, and so they like to push the blue or green
side as you have mentioned.

Objective AR coatings can lead one to see how this may work.

Jerry

Yes none of it bothers me either. I just see them as distinct from one another offering different views and each have their positives.
 
Use any of these on an overcast day with snow on the ground [with flat light and snow looking really white] and you will truly appreciate color bias.

My older bins all make whites look distinctly yellowish or brownish, when everything else looks pretty neutral without the snowy backdrop. Conquest HD and FL hint of greenish, Swaro 8.5 very distinctly bluish, HT white, white, white.

I remember the Jenoptem 8x30 having a more obvious cream colored tint, but I still enjoyed it very much. Having to wear glasses really ruined binocular choices for me. I can't do contacts unfortunately...can't touch my eyes, I'm just too squeemish. Had the eye exam recently and the Dr had to tell me a few times to relax. I hate that small cone coming right at your eyeball.
 
Recently I had the opportunity to look through Ultravid Plus, Zeiss FL & Swarovski CL (original version) over the course of a couple of weeks. I wasn't intentionally comparing these three, but I eventually noticed the differences in color presentation between the 3 after using each on separate days. I used them on the weekends at the same local park. As the rather distinct color presentation of each became apparent it made me
appreciate the different qualities and character of the views I found in each of them . Certain beautiful images from each are burned in my mind from the few outings at the park in town.

With the the FL I noticed rather strong greens when looking at Pine trees and greenery while other colors seemed normal. This is something I hadn't noticed before with the FL. The Pines looked striking and splendid and I wondered if there could be some color bias happening. I recalled discovering (by accident) a subtle yellow color cast in the Cabelas branded Meopta Meostar hd I had briefly a couple of years ago. I came across this when looking through the Meopta indoors for the first time at night when I first opened the box. Looking at a picture on the wall near a lamp with "daylight" bulb shining against the off white wall, I thought I saw slight tint of yellow or cream color. I grabbed the Ultravid to quickly compare and confirmed a very slight color cast in the Meopta. I've heard this before about the Meostar so I wasn't surprised and it was quickly forgot about when I used it for a weekend. Great binocular btw, but couldn't keep it due to ER a touch too short with my glasses.

So, after noticing intense greens in the FL I checked the wall again to see if I could see any color tint like I did in the Meopta. I did not see any type of color tint.
I was just curious and never had any problem with how greens looked in the FL. I actually thought it looked great and, overall, felt the color presentation in the FL very nice. The light gray coloring of a tufted titmouse looked especially pretty on that day.

After using the CL last weekend on a sunny day I finally realized why I find the view so pleasant. It's the colors.
Light tone colors are illuminated and look just beautiful.
Whites seem super bright and light toned purple, pink, yellows and blues look especially lovely in the CL. It has an overall very pleasing and relaxing color presentation to me.
A Red-bellied Woodpecker looked resplendent with its white brightened by the strong sun and slightly different shades of red on its head and belly. The pink legs and light blue eyering of a mourning dove was another image that stuck with me. A nearby house with a faded light yellow paint, a light purple children's plastic pedal car and other objects with lighter toned colors are what struck me.

The very next day I decided to take out the Ultravid+ to see its distinct color presentation in comparison . With the other 2 bins I wasn't intentionally looking at their colors...they just came to me and I eventually noticed their distinct/unique rendering of colors. But now I wanted to look to purposely see the differences with each and I needed to go back to the same park with the Leica. First look was dramatic (!) compared to the CL used just the previous day. Again, a sunny day which became cloudy later. Colors were obviously deeper, more saturated and boosted edge contrast created an impressive and a bit more intense image . CL has a gentler view and seems less harsh if that makes sense; a bit less dramatic.

Now I have just the Ultravid and CL. The FL was temporary and is gone. I didn't get rid of it for the optics (they're fantastic), but more for ergonomic and other personal considerations.

CL has good contrast and resolution; good separation of tones and is very bright (for 30mm) with wonderful colors. Uvid+ has deeper, richer colors and more contrast. Someone recently (can't recall who) on the forum said Leica is like oil paintings, Swarovski like pastel and Zeiss like watercolor. I generally agree with this and it seems a very good way to describe the different qualities of each IMO. I find the CL to be the closest to neutral than the others.

This is how I see it, but others may see things very differently and please remember the above are only my personal observations and opinions.

Pastel (colors) ... from Wikipedia:

"The colors of this family are usually described as "soothing", "soft", "near neutral", "milky", "washed out", "desaturated", and lacking strong chromatic content. Pink, mauve, and baby blueare commonly used pastel colors, as well as magic mint, periwinkle, and lavender."

Color brightness vs saturation (google search):

"Hue is therefore the actual color. Brightness refers to how much white (or black) is mixed in the color while saturation indicates the amount of grey in a color. A saturation value of 0 indicates mostly grey while 100% luminosity (or L = 255) is white (see charts)."
GiGi,

Nicely written story of this 'intensely' personal subject :)

It's kinda cool :cool: to think that every rainbow you see will be a completely individual experience .....

I won't 'cloud' your lovely prose with techno babble, just be aware that there are differences even amongst brand families - Swarovski EL->SLC->CL etc, due to different design (optical train design, prism type), glass types, and coating layers and formulas, stray light control, etc, etc.

I have to agree with James, the 'clarity' offered by Porros, A-K's does help with the colours.

I'm certain my perfect bin hasn't been made yet :cat: , but I think you've hit upon the moral of the story - choose the one you like :) :t:

Btw - I do like the Swarovski's 'sand' colour ........ of the ×32's armour ! :-O




Chosun :gh:
 
I personally own an older pair of Zeiss FL and the CL’s as well. I can’t compare with the older Leica. Currently have the Noctivid (phenomenal view). I would also agree there are times where certain colors Pop or appear more vivid with the FL’s. My experience leans more toward yellow and browns. (May just be my eyes). But the yellow leaves and grass meadows would always appear to have a 3D look, but the FL’s still seem a little warm. I still think Zeiss FL’s rank in my top 2 favorite bins to date. Just excellent. The CL’s seemed to maintain a more consistent color palette with what my eyes naturally see. The whites did seem a touch more white, the voids between tree limbs and branches seem to just be a little brighter. I really enjoy the FL’s though. Contrast being most noticeable.
 
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Thanks CJ (post 13)
I owned the Nikon SE 8x32 porro some years back. That was 'crystal' clear and
truly razor sharp. Seemed it had natural and neutral color presentation.
I still really like smaller 30/32mm porros.

Yes, Swaro sand color is fab. Love it. Their binos are exquisite. Not loving the look of the new CL though and
hope that's not the trend.
 
PH (post 14),
Yes, whites look strikingly bright white with CL and the first thing I noticed about the colors.
The lighter tones are bright and real pretty. Agree, it has a natural color presentation. I think they
did a good job with it and I'm enjoying it way more than I thought I would. I used to own the same sand color
CL in 2013. I re-acquired it recently and the one I have now has a smoother focus. After using the Ultravid+ for a few years now I was a little concerned maybe the CL would be a let down. That didn't happen thankfully...I still love it just as I did back in 2013. Not an alpha level binocular, but. very good on its own with very pleasing colors.

You have some collection of binos there.
 
I have never done such a comparison, but I am always startled by the colors in my EL SV 10X42. Coming across something like a male Common Merganser will startle me with the brilliance of the white, or a Northern Flicker with the red head patch, even a great distances.

Endlessly fascinating.
 
Hi,

first of all, if one talks about a tint, it better be sth serious like the strong yellow in old east block military bins and old Swaros with "Blaubelag" or modern bins with laser protection and purple or green tint where even after prolonged use the brain can't adapt.

All of the mentioned models don't really fall into that class, but yes, there is subtle differences in color rendition which will be seen in direct comparison and especially when you start using the pair and the brain has not adapted yet.

The usual spectrum from red to blue is like this: Leica, Nikon (both reddish - nice and punchy colors), Meopta (a bit yellow), Swaro (fairly neutral), Zeiss (green or blue - where the eye is most sensitive). I think most of this is done on purpose by the manufacturers - nowadays optical coatings are understood well enough to get consistent results with the transmission curve you want (well, at least the form, the absolute value is of course a bit lower than the 110% the product manager specified ;-)

Joachim
 
Hi Joachim (#18)

Yes, "tint" is too strong a word. Even "color cast" sound a bit much.
The "yellow tint" seen in some bins is really more like a cream making whites very slightly
off white and not a pure white. The "red" cast in Leicas really looks more like a very slight
touch of grayish in the whites and it appears to deepen colors a bit more esp reds and browns it seems .
These are very slight differences which are super subtle and
some people don't even seem to notice any of this. As you say, it's more apparent when having them all and switching from one to the next over some days like I did. Then the differences come to you and are more obvious.
 
Love reading your experiences. Thank you GG. It's been a while since I've done some side by side comparisons as I've just been enjoying my binoculars. Lastest ones to accompany me were my Leica UVHD 8x32. Colors sure do pop through them. I'm sure the differences between the way brands play with the light, colors and other things and the way we individually perceive them are why we love certain "views" over others. I still love my Swaro's and think they have great colors too, finally took my pocket CL out to a concert. Really, at the top tier level it's close. Still, for some reason I like to analyze and try to quantify everything. That's why I enjoy reading your review. ;)
 
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