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French farmer gets in a flap as he tells bird activists to shove off

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Old Monday 9th November 2015, 16:18   #1
Robin Edwards
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French farmer gets in a flap as he tells bird activists to shove off

French farmer gets in a flap as he tells bird activists to shove off

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...off?CMP=twt_gu
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Old Monday 9th November 2015, 16:45   #2
Allen S. Moore
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Originally Posted by Robin Edwards View Post
French farmer gets in a flap as he tells bird activists to shove off

http://www.theguardian.com/world/201...off?CMP=twt_gu
We'll see what is more important, life or the trespass laws. I suppose the fellow prancing about in his underpants receives EU and French state grants, too.
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Old Monday 9th November 2015, 17:16   #3
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fortunately the lpo will know the law, which is complicated in france. lets see who comes out in defence of the farmer. in england i'm sure he would be looking at assault as a minimum but here....

in one hunt sab video the police chase the sabs off - so who is whose side???
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Old Wednesday 18th November 2015, 16:47   #4
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I doubt the trespass defense will hold much weight, hunters regularly enter peoples' private gardens with impunity and no one bats an eyelid, although the right to hunt and trap is very much ingrained in the French psyche so the court may well come down in favour of the farmer. French justice tends to move at a glacial pace, so it will probably take about three years to get it to court anyway.
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Old Wednesday 18th November 2015, 18:28   #5
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read it in the local paper, in france.
the president of the LPO was portrayed as a 'militant' and not once did it mention that what the farmer was doing was illegal.....
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Old Thursday 19th November 2015, 09:51   #6
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read it in the local paper, in france.
the president of the LPO was portrayed as a 'militant' and not once did it mention that what the farmer was doing was illegal.....
I guess it depends on the bias of the newspaper, and the demographic it serves. If it's mostly aimed at the rural community then i'm not surprised. Would be interesting to know if it was reported similarly in the nationals.
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Old Sunday 13th December 2015, 18:14   #7
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read it in the local paper, in france.
the president of the LPO was portrayed as a 'militant' and not once did it mention that what the farmer was doing was illegal.....
bugger, had a really interesting chat with the national parcs yesterday - and one who used to work for the office national de chasse (he was there to 'control' what was hunted etc).

When I said that it was mad to call the LPO guy a 'militant' he said that this wasn't considered a negative term - the opposite. Just that he really believed in the fight against these hunters and was prepared to stand up against the actions of the trappers.

bugger because - what these trappers are doing isn't actually illegal. Whilst the general practice of trapping ortolans is illegal in some restricted communities it is considered as a traditional hunting practice and is therefore legal!!! I hadn't really grasped the concept but was a bit pi3333d off. Paying for an ortolan in a restaurant is illegal though.

On a better note he was, and is now under a different title, employed to do bag checks - checking feathers etc. of shot birds. Anyone with a dodgy feather (its called 'control de plume' - feather check literally but more likely would be the body of something) is subjected to fairly hefty fines. For example a Hen Harrier would come with a fine in the 1000's and loss of gun licence as a minimum. Also, unlike the Sandringham HH, if he witnessed the event that would be enough proof in a court of law ie doesn't need to produce a 'body' - for joe public the same doesn't apply. In shooting a protected species the hunter is subject to strict(?) liabilty in the sense that he cannot later say he didn't realise it was an x, y or z -he has to know what he is shooting.

It was all very interesting mainly because I don't believe the same sort of 'environment protection officers' exist in the UK or have the same powers. He was amazed when I started to tell him about some of the practices of games keepers in the UK and also the ridiculous level of punishment if caught out.

Interestingly, he felt that the levels of punishment really dis-swayed hunters from shooting 'anything' and only a very small percentage break the rules in this area. I think, the parcs employees are actually 'gendarmes' (police) so their powers are far reaching - when we went on Lammergeier nest protection duty my friend wore a 'Gendarme' badge and not the usual parc national badge (this may not be applicable to all employees - don't know). I'll ask what the situation is.

Lots to learn and possibly apply to the UK.... (if they had the will and money)
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Old Tuesday 15th December 2015, 21:38   #8
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bugger, had a really interesting chat with the national parcs yesterday - and one who used to work for the office national de chasse (he was there to 'control' what was hunted etc).

When I said that it was mad to call the LPO guy a 'militant' he said that this wasn't considered a negative term - the opposite. Just that he really believed in the fight against these hunters and was prepared to stand up against the actions of the trappers.

bugger because - what these trappers are doing isn't actually illegal. Whilst the general practice of trapping ortolans is illegal in some restricted communities it is considered as a traditional hunting practice and is therefore legal!!! I hadn't really grasped the concept but was a bit pi3333d off. Paying for an ortolan in a restaurant is illegal though.

On a better note he was, and is now under a different title, employed to do bag checks - checking feathers etc. of shot birds. Anyone with a dodgy feather (its called 'control de plume' - feather check literally but more likely would be the body of something) is subjected to fairly hefty fines. For example a Hen Harrier would come with a fine in the 1000's and loss of gun licence as a minimum. Also, unlike the Sandringham HH, if he witnessed the event that would be enough proof in a court of law ie doesn't need to produce a 'body' - for joe public the same doesn't apply. In shooting a protected species the hunter is subject to strict(?) liabilty in the sense that he cannot later say he didn't realise it was an x, y or z -he has to know what he is shooting.

It was all very interesting mainly because I don't believe the same sort of 'environment protection officers' exist in the UK or have the same powers. He was amazed when I started to tell him about some of the practices of games keepers in the UK and also the ridiculous level of punishment if caught out.

Interestingly, he felt that the levels of punishment really dis-swayed hunters from shooting 'anything' and only a very small percentage break the rules in this area. I think, the parcs employees are actually 'gendarmes' (police) so their powers are far reaching - when we went on Lammergeier nest protection duty my friend wore a 'Gendarme' badge and not the usual parc national badge (this may not be applicable to all employees - don't know). I'll ask what the situation is.

Lots to learn and possibly apply to the UK.... (if they had the will and money)
Interesting rosbifs, i was completely unaware that France had officers conducting on-the-spot bag checks like that, but as hunting is very much part of French culture, it does make sense to do this.

I guess if that there are officers stationed in French national parks conducting checks then this would reduce the chances of endangered species being shot or trapped, but this wouldn't have any affect elsewhere on hunters who just decide to hunt in their local woods etc, or even in peoples' gardens - my other half has turfed out hunters from his aunts property before now!

The UK has a wildlife crime unit, but i suspect it's woefully underfunded, and i've no idea what the data is on illegal trapping/shooting. I think for the most part it relies on the public reporting suspicious activity, but i could be wrong on this... maybe someone else with more knowledge could chime in?
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Old Wednesday 16th December 2015, 14:42   #9
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The officers employed by the 'office national de chasse' have country wide powers. The national parcs officers generally act within the boundaries of the national parcs but I guess if they were wearing their gendarme 'hat' they still have nationwide powers...

The parcs do have far reaching powers. They issued no fly zones around one Lammergeier nest last year. You are not allowed to 'climb' on the cliffs near the nests of protected species. They have powers of search etc.

Last edited by rosbifs : Wednesday 16th December 2015 at 14:47.
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Old Friday 2nd December 2016, 10:29   #10
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This has now passed through court. A number of the hunters received 1000€ fines about half of which was 'suspended'. They also had their hunting licences revoked for the next few months. All 'legal' Ortolan hunting is being reviewed for next year. The inference being that it will be further restricted...

Great news!
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