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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

HBWAlive Key; mission accomplished or mission impossible? (2 Viewers)

Jacques-Josse Hardy (25.10.1798, Bacqueville, Pays de Caux - D. 31.12.1863, Dieppe) exchanged a lot of birds with MNHN and Leiden (435+ specimens).
The Dieppe museum received 1253 birds and 2210 eggs after his death, but many suffered during WW2. Few have been transfered to Rouen.

He published several papers: Revue zoologique, Revue et Magasin de zoologie, and by 1841 the Catalogue of Birds observed in the Department of Siene-Inferiere in Annuare de l’Association de la Basse Normandie.

More info on him:
1). Gouellain, G., & Cochet, J.B.C., 1864. Revue de la Normandie. --- Rouen;
2). Boudier A. 1950. Dieppe, Dieppois, dieppoiserie, revue d'histoire locale, en plusieurs séries et livraisons. LIV: 5-6;
3). Bignot, G., 1987. Scientifiques dieppois et patrimoine local. Les Bulletins des Amys du Vieux Dieppe;
4). Ribault, J-Y., & Gaborit, J-R ., 1999. Mécènes et collectionneurs: Les variantes d'une passion / sous la direction de J. -Y.
 
Ptelenorhynchus.
Temminck and Mr. Jobling write:
"tels sont particulièrement les nouveaux genres Ptelenorhynchus §”
§ Dont je ferai comoitre les especes dans sur autre Memoire
…these are especially new genres Ptelenorhynchus § (and others)…
§ Of which I will make known the species in on other Memories
This article was read Dec. 21, 1819. And published 1821 (1822?) The title is some new species genera in the Linnaean Society Museum. James says (syn. ?) . Kuhl published the name Ptilonorhynchus in 1820. He says about the genus Ptilonorhynchus mihi. He lists the species
Pt. holosericeus Rob. Brown. . Kuhl says that there are specimens of this bird at Temminck’s collection and the museum of the Linnaean Society London. Kuhl says Do not Temminck are prevented by the description they desisted from. So Ptelenorhynchus is Ptilonorhychrus Kuhl. And that means feather bill.
. http://a-dinosaur-a-day.com/post/182181067060/ptilonorhynchus-violaceus .
 
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Ptelenorhynchus. Thanks, Mark; I agree with your reasoning, but don't understand why I missed the connection in the first place (the link with other Australasian genera is blindingly obvious). This name is undoubtedly a lapsus for Ptilonorhynchus, but Temminck does not attribute it in his "diagnosis," so for the time being I treat it as a new name.
 
Taphrospilus said:
See also here footnote. I assume a case for Laurent as in Russian.
Click to expand...
With slightly modernized spelling:
Еще южнее, в даче Сысертского завода, к этим двум породам присоединяется, впрочем очень редкий, белозобый дрозд (Turdus torquatus) (¹);
_____
(¹) По свидетельству Martin, занимавшагося здесь в продолжении многих лет и отправлявшого чучела здешних птиц в Париж и Лондон.
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Approximative translation:
Further South, in the dacha of Sysertsky Zavod, with these two species joins, although very rarely, the Ring Ouzel (Turdus torquatus) (¹);
_____
(¹) According to the testimony of Martin, occupied here for many years, and sending stuffed birds to Paris and London.
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Sysertsky Zavod (Сысертский Завод) is the former name of Sysert (Сысе́рть), ca. 40 km SSE of Yekaterinburg.
 
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Phasianus mongolicus kvaskovskii Zarudny.
Here is Richnond card for two names:
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/SP/Peta/peta00726a.jpg .
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/SP/Peta/peta00727a.jpg .
The key has triznae
Capt. Boris Petrovich Trizna (1867-1938) Russian palaeontologist, zoologist, collector in Turkistan, Director of Chimkent Mus. 1924 (syn. Cinclus cinclus leucogaster).
Here is an OD?
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/104602#page/154/mode/1up . Finding the 1909 OD mentioned by Richmond may shed light on Kvaskovsky? Maybe its Kvašňovský?
" The grapheme Ň (minuscule: ň) is a letter in the Czech, Slovak and Turkmen alphabets. It is formed from Latin N with the addition of a caron (háček in Czech and mäkčeň in Slovak) Czech and Slovak, ň represents /ɲ/, the palatal nasal. Thus, it has the same function as Serbo-Croatian nj, French gn, Hungarian ny, Polish ń, Portuguese nh and Spanish ñ.

In the 19th century, it was used in Croatian for the same sound.

/ŋ/
In Turkmen and Southern Kurdish, ň represents the sound /ŋ/, the velar nasal, as in English thing.
 
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mb1848 said:
Phasianus mongolicus kvaskovskii Zarudny.
Here is Richnond card for two names:
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/SP/Peta/peta00726a.jpg .
http://www.zoonomen.net/cit/RI/SP/Peta/peta00727a.jpg .
The key has triznae
Capt. Boris Petrovich Trizna (1867-1938) Russian palaeontologist, zoologist, collector in Turkistan, Director of Chimkent Mus. 1924 (syn. Cinclus cinclus leucogaster).
Here is an OD?
https://www.biodiversitylibrary.org/item/104602#page/154/mode/1up . .
Click to expand...
There he says that he described these two forms in "Семья Охотников" for the year 1909.
(He wrote it "Семьѣ Охотниковъ", but I think the first word is inflected (prepositional case ?), and the final ъ in the second word would be omitted nowadays; "Семья Охотников" means "Family of Hunters". Several notes by Zarudny in this journal are listed [here]; unfortunately without associated .pdf/.djvu.)

We get a hint on p. 100 of the same paper, however, where Zarudny offered acknowlegements as follows:
Долженъ принести здѢсь глубокую благодарность слѣдующимъ лицамъ, оказавшимъ мнѢ не малую помошь въ дѣлѣ познанія Туркестанской Орнитологій: Б. П. Тризна, С. I. Билькевичу, Е. Л. Шестоперову, Е. К. Михайловскому, Б. Ч. Квасковскому, П. Н. Жаба, В. А. Ильинскому, В. В. Лосеву и И. П. Суслову.
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"I must bring here my deep gratitude to those who have given me a lot of help in knowing Turkestan Ornithology: to B. P. Trizna, S. I. Bilkevich, E. L. Shestoperov, E. K. Mikhailovskiy, B. Ch. Kvaskovskiy, P. N. Zhaba, V. A. Ilinskiy, V. V. Losev and I. P. Suslov." (Hopefully I got my nominatives right; all the names in the original are in the dative case.) It looks like we have our two dedicatees in there...

"Б. Ч." Квасковский may match Бронислав Чеславович Квасковский (Bronislav Cheslavovich Kvaskovskiy), as [here] and [here]...?
 
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Thank you Laurent! I'm trying to limit myself to one a day so we have names to interest us for a while but its just too much fun.
 
l_raty said:
"Б. Ч." Квасковский may match Бронислав Чеславович Квасковский (Bronislav Cheslavovich Kvaskovskiy), as [here] and [here]...?
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Assuming this was him: born 1861 in the Grodno governorate (now in Belarus); entered the army in 1879; reached the rank of подполковник (Google's translation: "Lieutenant-Colonel") in 1909 in the 14th Turkestan infantry batalion (Туркестанский стрелковый батальон).
I can't say precisely what he would have done that might have been helpful to Zarudny, but his name matches Zarudny's acknowlegement, the location and date (Turkestan, 1909) match too, and in 1914 he published a note (about hunting knives) in Nasha Okhota (Наша охота, "Our hunting"), a journal where Zarudny (as well as other Russian ornithologists of the time, e.g., Buturlin) also published ornithological notes.
 
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maronata Hodgson for Egretta maronata.
This is the Indian Pond Heron. The name is descriptive of the dark red color the males get. Put the word in Google image and you get pictuers of chestnuts. Diminutive maroon?
 
maronata

• "E. [Egretta] maronata" HODGSON 1844 (here), no explanation, no dedication, simply listed (in "Ardeidæ") ... with a reference to (the drawings and specimens ... sent to the British Museum) No. 642-644.

That it truly is equal of today's Indian Pond Heron Ardeola grayii is agreed with by Carol Inskipp, (Zoological Society of London), see the Hodgson birds list Volume VI, here.

Its etymology? No idea, ...

/B

PS. For what it's worth: Indian Pond Herons (with Chestnut/Claret-coloured/Maroon backs) in Breeding Plumage; here, here, here, here, here ... and elsewhere. If relevant, or just a slump coincidence, ... who knows?
.
 
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mb1848 said:
In 1846 Hodgson puts Egretta macronota (note new spelling) in synomyny of Grayii Sykes.
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Thus maronata (based on the subsequent correction by its very author) would seem to be a misspelling of macronota...?
 
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Mark, the "new spelling" macronota could complicate things (at least in my non-Greek/Latin mind) ... as macro + nota (possibly?) could indicate a notable difference in size (length) ... !?

Even if I personally like the "Marone-backed Heron" theory! ;)

Also worth considering is that Hodgson himself in Catalogue of the specimens and drawings of mammalia and birds of Nepal and Thibet, 1846 (your second link, p.134, or here – with full view for us Europeans), lists "A. [Ardeola] Grayii, Sykes [1832]. Egretta macronota, Hodgs. ... " and the drawings "a—c. No. 642, 644," as synonyms of "The MALACCA HERON, Ardeola leucoptera. Ardea leucoptera Bodd." ... which ought to lead us to Boddaert's "Cancroma leucoptera" 1783 (here), No. 911.

Today we find "Ardeola leucoptera" listed as a synonym of Ardeola Grayii, (at least in Wikipedia here) which, for some reason, also would exclude the Australasian "Ardea leucoptera" VIEILLOT 1817 (here) ... ? This would, could probably also toss in "Ardea malaccensis" GMELIN 1789 in the game?

Why the latter names neither are valid nor in use is beyond me.

However, regarding identity, not etymology, the latter birds/names would easily be excluded from Hodgson's maronata/macronota (today's Indian Pond Heron), simply on geography ... as Hodgson's first-mentioned Heron clearly originated from Nepal (or Tibet/Thibet), far, far away from "Malacca".

/B
--
 
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Boddaert's work is a list of names applying to Martinet's Planches Enluminées, in the case of his Cancroma leucoptera, pl. enl. 911: https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/35223567 -- the bird illustrated on this plate is the type.

Gmelin's Ardea malaccensis https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/2656136 is based on:
- Buffon's "Crabier brun et blanc", https://books.google.com/books?id=88mNJI83V7oC&pg=PA394
- Pl. enl. 911, https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/35223567
- Latham's "Malacca heron" https://biodiversitylibrary.org/page/40078835
But Buffon in a footnote made clear that his bird was the same as that on pl. enl. 911, and Latham's description is based on the other two. IOW, the only type here is also the bird appearing on pl. enl. 911.

This bird was in immature plumage, and its exact identity is nowadays regarded as uncertain -- either Ardeola grayii or A. bacchus. The names that have it as their type are not used for this reason. (The bird was clearly an Ardeola sp, however, so that Boddaert's name certainly forbids using any later leucoptera in this genus.)
 
Thus maronata (based on the subsequent correction by its very author) would seem to be be a misspelling of macronota...?
Click to expand...
It seems so, but perhaps an edit by John Gray? Maronata is odd, maybe the Gray brothers assumed he meant long-mark versus something to do with marone-backed? I prefer a connection to the obvious color of the birds. It would be nice to see drawings 642-4. Hodgson sent a very much marked up version of the 1863 second edition version of his catalogue to naturalists around the world.
https://books.google.com/books?id=dhQAAAAAQAAJ&source=gbs_navlinks_s . BHL and others do not consider Hodgson the author of the first catalogue but either the British Museum or one of the Gray brothers. Of course George Gray was the editor of the 1844 maronata name article.
 
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The FAO explains Marron =chestnut.
The difference between chestnut and marron has been a subject of discussion especially at commercial level. Often marron is used to define very large chestnuts or, as in the case of the French, used to classify chestnuts which do not have signs of episperm intrusion (pellicle which covers the seed) in the kernel or which have a low division percentage (<12 percent).

However these basic assumptions do not have any biological basis and tend to cause confusion amongst chestnut wholesalers, traders and consumers.

In Italy marron means a particular Castanea sativa cultivar of excellent quality. Of oblong shape, with a reddish coloured epicarp (skin) that is shiny with dense, often raised stripes and small semi rectangular shaped hilar scar. Large sized marrons are not divided, have a sweet flavour, with the kernel itself free of hollows and easily separable from the episperm
 
mb1848 said:
Maronata is odd, maybe the Gray brothers assumed he meant long-mark versus something to do with marone-backed?
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In principle nota (a mark in Latin) should not end up combined with μακρός (long/large in Greek) in a single word. In names of Greek derivation ending in -notus, -a, -um (leuconotus, chloronota, etc.), the second part of the name is normally νῶτον (the back in Greek). What macronota ('long-backed' / 'big-backed') would refer to precisely in the case of a pond heron is not really clear to me, however...

Nobody else than Hodgson seems to have ever used that word to denote a bird. In addition to the heron, Hodgson 1844 also called a pigeon "Ptilonopus macronotus"; in 1846, he (or Gray) placed this name in the synonymy of Treron sphenura (now Treron sphenurus). It's not much clearer to me in what sense this other species might be said to be 'long-backed' or 'big-backed'. However, somewhat intriguingly, that species has the shoulders and, to some extant, the upper mantle purplish, so that "maroon-backed" might in fact arguably apply to it as well...
 
mb1848 said:
The FAO explains Marron =chestnut.
The difference between chestnut and marron has been a subject of discussion especially at commercial level. Often marron is used to define very large chestnuts or, as in the case of the French, used to classify chestnuts which do not have signs of episperm intrusion (pellicle which covers the seed) in the kernel or which have a low division percentage (<12 percent).

However these basic assumptions do not have any biological basis and tend to cause confusion amongst chestnut wholesalers, traders and consumers.

In Italy marron means a particular Castanea sativa cultivar of excellent quality. Of oblong shape, with a reddish coloured epicarp (skin) that is shiny with dense, often raised stripes and small semi rectangular shaped hilar scar. Large sized marrons are not divided, have a sweet flavour, with the kernel itself free of hollows and easily separable from the episperm
Click to expand...
In my local Belgian French, except in a culinary context, I usually call the fruit of Castanea sativa châtaigne, and use marron exclusively for the fruit of Aesculus hippocastanum. Once cooked, châtaignes are called marrons, however -- thus we have confit de marrons, dinde aux marrons, marrons glacés, etc. -- all of which are prepared using châtaignes; "real" marrons (horse chestnuts) are not good to eat at all.

Wiktionary suggests Engl. maroon < French marron < Italian marrone < Byzantine Greek μάραον. Thus something like "maraonotus" for maroon-backed might in principle be conceivable, I guess.
 
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Hodgson went to study at Haileybury and showed an aptitude for languages. An early influence was Thomas Malthus who was a family friend and a staff member at Hailebury. But he left for India at 17. So he was not a physician or a professor with more studies. He often complained he did not have much ornithology works to refer to out in India. Maroon backed makes sense. I have not eaten breakfast so the confit de marrons, dinde aux marrons, marrons glacés made me drool.
 

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