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Guadalcanal Moustached Kingfisher (1 Viewer)

http://www.rarebirdalert.co.uk/v2/C...ed_in_the_Solomon_Islands.aspx?s_id=436521074

"A spectacular forest kingfisher not seen since the 1950s has been rediscovered and photographed in the highlands of Guadalcanal in the Solomon Islands."

Not seen since the 1950s. I think Dave is a customer of theirs!

All the best

Indeed I am Paul. It is a bit disappointing that simple basic research was not done here, its not as if I didn't publish or the article is obscure and difficult to find, it is freely available as a pdf which I am sure could be found will a little googling. Indeed the AMNH article itself mentioned that it has been seen since the original collection although it says "glimpsed" when in fact I watched it for several minutes, in my notes I say that it appeared to fall asleep while I was watching it!

http://davidjgibbs.webs.com/downloads/Gibbs%20Solomons%201996.pdf
 
Indeed I am Paul. It is a bit disappointing that simple basic research was not done here, its not as if I didn't publish or the article is obscure and difficult to find, it is freely available as a pdf which I am sure could be found will a little googling. Indeed the AMNH article itself mentioned that it has been seen since the original collection although it says "glimpsed" when in fact I watched it for several minutes, in my notes I say that it appeared to fall asleep while I was watching it!

http://davidjgibbs.webs.com/downloads/Gibbs%20Solomons%201996.pdf

Dave

A good read. At least Guy did not write you out of the White-eye. ;)

All the best
 
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Indeed I am Paul. It is a bit disappointing that simple basic research was not done here, its not as if I didn't publish or the article is obscure and difficult to find, it is freely available as a pdf which I am sure could be found will a little googling. Indeed the AMNH article itself mentioned that it has been seen since the original collection although it says "glimpsed" when in fact I watched it for several minutes, in my notes I say that it appeared to fall asleep while I was watching it!

http://davidjgibbs.webs.com/downloads/Gibbs%20Solomons%201996.pdf

It's not a surprise that the American Museum team have downplayed / dismissed the sightings of others, since "not seen since the 1950s" gives the story more traction.

"Trophy specimen of charismatic bird species collected in undisturbed habitat where it has always been" is not such a great headline.

cheers, alan
 
It's not a surprise that the American Museum team have downplayed / dismissed the sightings of others, since "not seen since the 1950s" gives the story more traction.

"Trophy specimen of charismatic bird species collected in undisturbed habitat where it has always been" is not such a great headline.

cheers, alan

Yes it's all PR these days. but it is nice to know my youthful birding exploits are not forgotten by everybody - so thanks for name-check above Alan:t:
 
Yes it's all PR these days. but it is nice to know my youthful birding exploits are not forgotten by everybody - so thanks for name-check above Alan:t:

I still have a copy of your ancient Philippines report filed away somewhere - replete with teeth-gnashingly casual references to "10+" Speckled Reed Warblers at Candaba!
 
Larry, run a quick thread search on BF for 'Bugun' and the thread pops up.

I'd be interested to know what Chris's 20 years of searching composed. Sounds really interesting, I'm not grinding an axe here...
 
Can we get a seperate forum for Collecting vs. Not Collecting threads? I'm fricking sick & tired of every post on the TAXONOMY forum being taken over for this 'discussion' (in quotes because no one is changing their mind here - myself included).

ENOUGH already! Stop derailing threads for your own agenda!

New thread, not forum, is here:

http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=312482

I will try to connect links with various interesting and / or heated previous debate via that thread in due course

cheers, alan
 
"Trophy specimen of charismatic bird species collected in undisturbed habitat where it has always been" is not such a great headline.
They could've been even more honest . . .

"Trophy specimen of charismatic bird species netted and strangled to death in undisturbed habitat where it has always been" ;)
 
Can we get a seperate forum for Collecting vs. Not Collecting threads? I'm fricking sick & tired of every post on the TAXONOMY forum being taken over for this 'discussion' ...

Some persons might be sick and tired of yet another thread on the TAXONOMY forum detailing needless killing of birds in the name of so-called science, so it is completely valid for persons to comment on it in the thread.
 
I note that the news item has since been re-posted with a deliberately inflammatory headline...

Birdwatch, "28 Sep 2015"(?): 'Ghost' kingfisher rediscovered on south-west Pacific island - then killed as specimen.

Not many supporters of the collection, in the nine comments to date:
eg:
".derekjmatthews30 Sep 2015 19:10I am appalled too both as an avian researcher and conservationist! There can be no justification in killing this bird ESPECIALLY once it was captured - photographic evidence was obviously collected and DNA could be collected through a blood sample. What chance does any conservation of a critically endangered species have if the so-called conservationists themselves have so little regard for an individual of the species. What possible justification can there be for killing this bird? There should be an outcry and demand for an explanation from the research and birding community!! Derek Matthews - Vancouver Avian Research Centre, Vancouver, BC, Canada"

chees, alan
 
One of the most ironic statements is this(my bold): Filardi said: "When I came upon the netted bird in the cool shadowy light of the forest I gasped aloud: 'Oh my god, the kingfisher.' One of the most poorly known birds in the world was there, in front of me, like a creature of myth come to life

Not for long though, eh?

cheers, alan
 
From Pritam on OB yahoo group:

"Congratulations Chris Filardi, you came you saw you conquered. There was even misinformation to the effect that the bird was released but it was indeed killed in the name of science. Yet another example of trophy collection over well being of an endangered species. There was no census in that area before it was deemed feasible to "collect". There really should be checks against these pseudo-scientists visiting remote places and hoodwinking both people and wildlife in the name of science.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/marc-...ar_b_8201720.html?ir=India&adsSiteOverride=in
http://www.amnh.org/our-research/staff-directory/chris-filardi

Please write to the PM, and forest and tourism ministries of Solomon Island to protest this act.

[email protected]
[email protected]
[email protected] "

cheers, alan
 
Presumably they took lots of other specimens. This bird is probably the one that is the strongest rationale for collection, because it is a virtually unknown species with no males in collections and its collection does not appear based on the data presented to endanger populations. A lot could be done with this specimen in comparing it to related species, confirming it is actually the male related to the females in collections through molecular work, and preventing other collections in that people know there is now a male available which they could compare photographs to, as well as more detailed studies into feather, bill and skeletal morphology which are not possible in the field. Are people not more concerned about the somewhat tasteless press piece by AMNH, which does not mention that the lovely bird in the photo was then promptly asphixiated?

If you want to point to difficult-to-justify instances of collecting new species, then this one, where 17 specimens including 3 fledglings were collected, looks a questionable one in terms of numbers. This being of a "new species" already known in collections from at least 35 specimens cited in a previous paper whose existence was played down through non-designation of those 35 other specimens as paratypes.
http://www.museum.lsu.edu/cuervo/pubs_files/Scytalopus.perijanus_Auk.2015.pdf . In our more recently inked paper on S. griseicollis subspecies it was actually really useful to have juvenile specimens, as they show plumage differences (which can only really be studied well in Scytalopus with specimens), so that aspect is less bothering to me than the very large number of new adult specimens, when 1 or 2 to link the sound recordings to a specimen and compare to the other 35 that exist is probably all that would be necessary.

Or the guys from a U.S. museum who a couple of years ago "allegedly" obliterated pretty much every bird in a nature reserve in Peru with guns and nets, including Tinamous and Antpittas who had been trained to come to feeders, undoing years of hard conservation and ecotourism promotional work.

Having the collecting discussion focused on new and poorly known species, or specimens from regions lacking material where new specimens are often critical to taxonomic studies, is probably the wrong discussion. Such collecting is pretty easy to justify unless you take the view that no specimens should ever be taken on moral grounds. That is a valid position if you are a vegetarian (like me), but I don't subscribe to it. Think of all the fish that were saved by collecting this Kingfisher. Or think of the junvenile coots who would not be subject to infanticide if you collected their mother. The wild world of animals is not always an entirely moral one either... Unfortunately the world seems to fall into a "kill 'em all, make bigger the collections, they are useful [and who are you to say on morals]" or "you have no right" camp. Probably the right answer is somewhere in the middle.
 
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Given the circumstances, is anyone apart from Dan prepared to justify the collection of this specimen?
The problem with such discussions is that the legitimacy of collecting in general is so often conflated with the merits (or otherwise) of a particular instance.

It's clear that many birders consider any collecting to be unnecessary and undesirable – and I suspect that many of the same people are also anti-hunting/shooting/fishing, but perhaps still enjoy a KFC... (Personally, I consider responsible scientific collecting to be more justified than killing wild or reared animals for consumption, although I admit I'm not a vegetarian!)

But given that collecting is an accepted methodology, I can readily understand the rationale for collecting this individual, given BirdLife's estimate of population size and the fact that there were only three existing specimens (all females).
 
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