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Have you ever been doubted? (1 Viewer)

Yes - two years ago I found a wintering flock of Corn Bunting - not rare in these parts, but the flock size was unusual.

One local expert doubted the report - but what was worse was that I rose to the bait, allowing myself to get quite angry about the whole episode.

Now I'd shrug it off - I know what I've seen and if someone doesn't believe then that's their problem, not mine!
 
Yes , but it is a part of birding.

I have got ID right and wrong in the past, so i try to be as honest as i can these days.

Brian.
 
I've been doubted when I've been right, and I've been doubted when I've been wrong. More of the latter than the former.
 
Yeah. Even though I pretty much suck here on BirdForum with my IDing attempts from photographs, I'm actually pretty good with bird songs/calls. Even if I can't reproduce the song/call myself, I know how to use notation (similar to a spectrograph) to write it down.

So when I heard what to this day I'm 100% sure was a Couch's Kingbird on one of my USFS survey routes, because I couldn't get a photo of it and had no sound recording equipment, there was no way I could get the record accepted. It would have been an astonishing record for Arizona and especially where I heard it, at about 7,000 feet and above the Mogollon Rim. But it's just one of those things that there's no help for and, as someone has already said, you just shrug it off. I'm sure it'll happen again. ;)
 
Sure have - when undertaking bird survey work and coming across breeding barn owl (the site was urban & not noted for much of anything).

I was challenged on my reports when they were submitted as to the exact location of the nest site, but had agreed with the property owner not to divulge this information to anyone so I witheld these details.

Result - Barn Owl never made it into the annual survey report & I never did any more survey work with that particular organisation.


I am older & wiser now though and realise that there are always those who will doubt a record, very often the observer themselves if challenged often enough, it's just part of birding and I guess you have to live with it.
 
I know of no birders who have not had an i.d. questioned. That statement holds true of every member of state records committes I have met, too. Sometimes it was a valid observation; sometimes it was in error.

As stated above, it is to be expected. It is an essential part of birding. We are questioned; we question others. Critical examination is our "quality control."

That said, it is also true that we have no quality control on the quality control. There will be errors because there is rivalry/malice; the prejudice/bias against less-experienced and/or lesser known birders; percieved knowledge where there is ignorance (either by the observer or by the questioner).

It's really important not to take the questioning of one's i.d. as an affront to one's ability or to one's character. Objectivity is the goal. When personal affront/umbrage enters the equation, everyone loses--not just for that instance, but often in future encounters.

(I will go to the grave knowing it really was a Northern Wheatear!)

Phalarope
 
Phalarope said:
I know of no birders who have not had an i.d. questioned. That statement holds true of every member of state records committes I have met, too. Sometimes it was a valid observation; sometimes it was in error.

As stated above, it is to be expected. It is an essential part of birding. We are questioned; we question others. Critical examination is our "quality control."

That said, it is also true that we have no quality control on the quality control. There will be errors because there is rivalry/malice; the prejudice/bias against less-experienced and/or lesser known birders; percieved knowledge where there is ignorance (either by the observer or by the questioner).

It's really important not to take the questioning of one's i.d. as an affront to one's ability or to one's character. Objectivity is the goal. When personal affront/umbrage enters the equation, everyone loses--not just for that instance, but often in future encounters.

(I will go to the grave knowing it really was a Northern Wheatear!)

Phalarope

A good summation of the situation from Phalarope here - in my opinion just take it on the chin and try not to take it too personally as it happens to everyone.

My favorite story about this issue is in one of Pete Dunne Dunnes books. After having a bird rejected by the state rarities committee he asks one of the committee members to sufficiently prove to him that he had just eaten a Turkey Hoagie for lunch. When the committee member couldn't Pete felt perfectly justified keeping the bird he had claimed on his state list.

I think the hardest thing for relatively new birders is that they are less likely to be believed as no-one knows how good or bad their ID skills are yet at the same time, as a new birder, it is hard to actually get out there and spend time with the more established birders and prove that you aren't a complete duffer.

Luke

ps Hopefully I'll catch up with you around the holiday period Larry.
 
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I certainly have been doubted -- and will be again, I'm sure.

The only time it really ticked me off was spotting a Mississippi Kite at a wildlife refuge in south central Indiana, which was an unusual sighting -- although Kites had been seen there a couple of times in the past. Kites actually nest in Indiana, in one location not far from the Ohio River, a couple of hours away from the location where I spotted it.

I wasn't surprised at being doubted, but was rather dismayed at the vehemence with which my sighting was disputed, especially as it was done in a public forum (a birding listserv) and by someone I had never met.

Oh well, c'est la vie!
 
very nicely put Phalarope ... I understand Pete Dunne's reasoning ... but then a commitee isn't really there to dictate what people choose to list and it does niggle me a little when some suffer the occasional rejection and are up in arms about it forever ... nothing is 100% water tight in record evaluation we should all accept, it never can be, ... my own philosophy when submitting personal records is if I'm willing to 'play the game', so to speak, I have to accept the 'rules' ... everyone has pointed questions asked of their records at some time but it's a shame the way some find succur in the vilification of others
 
Birders will always question other birders, rightly or wrongly,particuarly if your new on the block.
A similar thing happened to a group of us that spent some time at a well known observatory.
We had the odd bird that nobody saw but heard that we where being called stringers by someone.
2 Rustic Buntings,Dusky Warbler and a Blyth's Reed Warbler later, opinions changed.
As was quoted once by some politician (I think) Dont let the b******s get you down.
Get others to see your birds, if possible photograph it (as old Telly sung "A picture paints a thousand words"), that way your records and yourself gain respect and credability, remember though even the best birders make mistakes.
And if that fails well tough on them.
 
I was kind of on both ends of the spectrum recently. I was questioned and doubted on two birds that I had seen but was vindicated when the more experienced birder eventually saw both birds. It's amazing how attitudes change when someone else can verify a good find.
 
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All the time. Most people on our local birding list write about unusual birds already with ID in a natural sort of way, or emphasise - I saw from XXX meters, well and for sure it was not (here is usual similar species).

;)
 
Even the best get it wrong.

Some years ago at a seawatch off St Ives, Cornwall, with a selection of the best seawatchers in the country, 3 skuas flew by at long range. To one group of experts it was 2 Poms and an Arctic, and to the other group of experts it was 2 Arctics and a Long-tailed....

What chance have the likes of me got? If it's not close enough to see well in a telescope, it's too far away to be identified.

I am sure I have made some howlers in the past, but I also know I have seen some real goodies that have been dismissed or would not even be considered by others. What does it matter in the grand scheme of things. As long as I enjoy it I don't care.
 
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