Javan Pond Heron - Bang Pu, Bangkok (1 Viewer)

Dear members and bird watchers

I spotted two pond herons at Bang Pu yesterday. Standing next to each other fishing. Picture #1 is easy, Javan Pond Heron

But picture #2. Never seen a pond heron like this, they are usually more brown-green coloured when non-breeding

Green face like the breeding and the bill look the same as a noon breeding. Juvenile? But I have never heard anyone saying juvenile. Only breeding and non-breeding.


Can in be that the breeding is completed by this bird and moulted back to non breeding plumage?

Kind regards and happy birding
Aladdin

It looks like Chinese Pond Heron (Ardeola Bacchus).

MG

Our opus page https://www.birdforum.net/opus/Chinese_Pond_Heron
has

Juveniles are Brown, heavily streaked buff and dark brown and have whitish underparts with heavy brown streaking.

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Niels

Mark Gasson said:

It looks like Chinese Pond Heron (Ardeola Bacchus).

MG

Click to expand...

Thank you Mark!

I identified it as a Chinese and reported it to eBird. Never reported in this area before so it was a little documentation to do.

Never reported before and I had identified the bird by the pinkish legs. Usually no problem for me to see the difference between breeding Indian, Javan and Chinese.

I use the book A Field Guide to the Birds of Thailand and South East Asia by Craig Robson. Chinese have pinkish legs and Java yellow

Searching on internet and I see some other Javans with pinkish. Bird pic#1 is dark like a Chinese but the top is more yellow brown and the throat looks to be more white than the Chinese.

My previous pictures and the Javan have pinkish legs and the Chinese Yellow om my page HOW TO IDENTIFY EGRETS and HERONS

And the bird on picture #2 have blue bill (Both upper and lower bill) like previous Javan I have seen so I changed my ebird to Javan as they can be very dark brown on the belly and lighter brown on the head.

The bird is not perching in any good position to see how white the throat is.

But what made me sure that it was a Javan was the white NECK NAPE.

Should I change it back to the Chinese?

But picture #2. Non breeding or is it something wrong with the plumage. And is it not it too early to be a non breeding?


I have not found any info, but are there juvenile pond herons and they are noon breeding on their first summer on the second calendar year? I thought they started to breed right on coming in to their second calendar year.

Kind regards and happy birding
Aladdin

Picture #1 looks like a Javan to me. I've never seen Chinese with this pale head in breeding plumage - they are always dark maroon red. The breast is perhaps slightly darker than usual for Javan but I have no experience to say how variable this feature is.

You mention leg colour in your last post. At least on Chinese, this feature is variable through the breeding season, with birds in peak breeding condition developing pink-red legs. I assume the same would be true for Javan. These bare part changes are common among herons and egrets.


I'd also say that #2 is Javan. It seems to have a few breeding plumage feathers on the nape and throat, which are buff rather than red. A few birds (presumably first summer) seem to show little or no moult to breeding plumage. The bill pattern suggests an adult rather than a juvenile.

Pond Herons (at least Chinese) do have a juvenile plumage, but this is very similar to non-breeding adult and I think is replaced within a few weeks of fledging. The main difference I think is that the marks on the breast tend to be a bit shorter, more spots than stripes. In flight, juveniles also have more extensive brown marks in the wings (especially the coverts).

johnallcock said:

Picture #1 looks like a Javan to me. I've never seen Chinese with this pale head in breeding plumage - they are always dark maroon red. The breast is perhaps slightly darker than usual for Javan but I have no experience to say how variable this feature is.

You mention leg colour in your last post. At least on Chinese, this feature is variable through the breeding season, with birds in peak breeding condition developing pink-red legs. I assume the same would be true for Javan. These bare part changes are common among herons and egrets.


I'd also say that #2 is Javan. It seems to have a few breeding plumage feathers on the nape and throat, which are buff rather than red. A few birds (presumably first summer) seem to show little or no moult to breeding plumage. The bill pattern suggests an adult rather than a juvenile.

Pond Herons (at least Chinese) do have a juvenile plumage, but this is very similar to non-breeding adult and I think is replaced within a few weeks of fledging. The main difference I think is that the marks on the breast tend to be a bit shorter, more spots than stripes. In flight, juveniles also have more extensive brown marks in the wings (especially the coverts).

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Thank you very much Johnallcock

Yes, picture #2 made me puzzled with the greyish colour instead of the browngreen. You think the bird have some breeding plumage feathers.

Do you think it is after or before breeding, all the other herons I could see in the area had breeding plumage.

Bit still no what I call egret and heron threes where they go to build their nests, all in the same tree and all kinds of different egrets and herons.

But I spotted two areas where, around hundred egrets and herons were standing and sitting under the mangrove. On the ground and lower branches, but no nests

June/ July and people start to ask where all the egrets and herons are. Attached pic #1 is from Bangkok in July 2017 and I found one of their trees full of nests and babies.

I found one of their trees in Malaysia as well

So maybe picture #2 is a late breeder?

Kind regards and happy birding
Aladdin