trancework
Well-known member
I just landed a pair of these in very good condition. Does anyone know anything about them? They have Flektogon and a 1Q printed on them too.
Thanks for any help.
Thanks for any help.
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Carl Zeiss Jena 15x50 ausJENA (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter trancework
- Start date
Hermann
Well-known member
They're normally called "Pentekarem", if you google that name, you'll find quite a lot of information about them. Nice high-power bins and not too heavy, unfortunately still with single-layer coatings. They're quite a few years old, if your pair is hazy, you might want to have it cleaned. I had a chance to buy one some 15 years ago, in good conditions, and didn't. That was a mistake.
Hermann
Hermann
trancework
Well-known member
Thx Hermann,
You are right they are very light and I checked against the serial numbers for the date of manufacture and it says 1968 so as you said, quite old too.
The optics are very clear and there is not a mark on them, I paid 100GBP for them so I feel quite lucky to own something so elegant.
I will do a search for "Pentekarem" on the web and I value your help with that information. I'm hoping that they are rare.
You are right they are very light and I checked against the serial numbers for the date of manufacture and it says 1968 so as you said, quite old too.
The optics are very clear and there is not a mark on them, I paid 100GBP for them so I feel quite lucky to own something so elegant.
I will do a search for "Pentekarem" on the web and I value your help with that information. I'm hoping that they are rare.
trancework
Well-known member
Hey Hermann,
Have you got any ideas why the "Pentekarem" is missing and instead it has "Flektogon M"?
Have you got any ideas why the "Pentekarem" is missing and instead it has "Flektogon M"?
Hermann
Well-known member
No idea, and I find the name pretty strange. "Flektogon" was the name of a series of wide-angle camera lenses. They were first made by Zeiss / Jena in 1950 (a 2.8/35mm). The last ones were made in 1991. The Flektogon was actually quite a well-known lens with very good optical properties. It was also the first wide-angle ever that worked with SLRs.
The 15x50, developed bei Zeiss Jena, was introduced in 1950 under the name "Pentekar" which was later changed to "Pentekarem". It was the first "new" binocular developed by Carl Zeiss Jena after the war.
Hermann
The 15x50, developed bei Zeiss Jena, was introduced in 1950 under the name "Pentekar" which was later changed to "Pentekarem". It was the first "new" binocular developed by Carl Zeiss Jena after the war.
Hermann
henry link
Well-known member
The "Flektogon" designation might make sense if the Flektogon camera lens formula had been modified for use in this binocular as a wide angle eyepiece, perhaps in order to achieve longer eye relief than would have been possible with a 12-13mm Erfle.
It's certainly odd to see both "Carl Zeiss Jena" and "ausJena" on the same binocular. My understanding has been that "ausJena" was substituted for "Carl Zeiss" only for export to countries were the trademark "Carl Zeiss" was owned by Carl Zeiss/Oberkochen. Obviously, a binocular with both names couldn't be sold in those places.
Henry
It's certainly odd to see both "Carl Zeiss Jena" and "ausJena" on the same binocular. My understanding has been that "ausJena" was substituted for "Carl Zeiss" only for export to countries were the trademark "Carl Zeiss" was owned by Carl Zeiss/Oberkochen. Obviously, a binocular with both names couldn't be sold in those places.
Henry
chartwell99
Well-known member
The 15x50 said:
Hermann
Well-known member
The eyepiece looks like a standard Erfle to me, and it looks as far as I can see just like the eyepieces of the Pentekarems I've handled. Might be worth checking though: Field of view should be 81m/1000m.
The mixture of the two identifiers "aus Jena" and "Carl Zeiss Jena" is something I've never seen or heard about before. And there's something else that's strange: It says "Made in Germany". All the bins I've seen were marked "Made in GDR".
Makes me a bit suspicious about the origin of this pair, actually. Or it must have a really strange history (like being produced from remaining parts after the end of the GDR / DDR).
Hermann
The mixture of the two identifiers "aus Jena" and "Carl Zeiss Jena" is something I've never seen or heard about before. And there's something else that's strange: It says "Made in Germany". All the bins I've seen were marked "Made in GDR".
Makes me a bit suspicious about the origin of this pair, actually. Or it must have a really strange history (like being produced from remaining parts after the end of the GDR / DDR).
Hermann
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Hermann
Well-known member
Can't remember what "M" stands for. Certainly doesn't mean "multi-coated" because I've seen this marking on several Zeiss Jena bins that weren't multicoated. Also the eyepieces don't look like they're multicoated; they've got the typical tone of the old single-layer coating.
BTW, I'm not even sure there are multicoated Pentekarems. At least I've never seen any.
Hermann
henry link
Well-known member
I have an old Swarovski catalogue in which "M" was used to designate "center focus".
Yes, a 50mm Flektogon camera lens would look very different from a hypothetical 13mm eyepiece variant of the same basic optical formula. The problem with Erfles at such short focal lengths is that the eye relief falls to 8mm or less. I read that the Flektogon was known for having a long back focus (for use in SLRs). In an eyepiece variant long back focus would translate to long eye relief.
Yes, a 50mm Flektogon camera lens would look very different from a hypothetical 13mm eyepiece variant of the same basic optical formula. The problem with Erfles at such short focal lengths is that the eye relief falls to 8mm or less. I read that the Flektogon was known for having a long back focus (for use in SLRs). In an eyepiece variant long back focus would translate to long eye relief.
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trancework
Well-known member
More pics
Hermann
Well-known member
trancework
Well-known member
More pics
I'm afraid this one is a fake or a botched repaint job - reasons as follows:
- it's either "aus Jena" or the Carl Zeiss Jena logo - never both. These were used at different times.
- Flektogon was the name of a series of wide angle photo lenses by CZJ, not binoculars.
- Made in Germany was never used by CZJ. It always said DDR or made in DDR.
PS: The M for Mitteltrieb doesn't make sense with CZJ as they had different names for CF and IF models. The IF Model in 15x50 was called Penterakis and is quite rare.
Joachim
- it's either "aus Jena" or the Carl Zeiss Jena logo - never both. These were used at different times.
- Flektogon was the name of a series of wide angle photo lenses by CZJ, not binoculars.
- Made in Germany was never used by CZJ. It always said DDR or made in DDR.
PS: The M for Mitteltrieb doesn't make sense with CZJ as they had different names for CF and IF models. The IF Model in 15x50 was called Penterakis and is quite rare.
Joachim
chartwell99
Well-known member
Sadly, I think you may be right for all of the reasons given. I also recall that the CZJ first quality symbol (1Q) should appear on the right prism cover.
trancework
Well-known member
I'm crying.
Sorry that we couldn't catch this one before you bought - any chance of returning this?
Anyways, please post a closeup straight from the front for reference - the screw positions would be interesting there and possible japanese makers marks...
Funny enough the bin itself looks pretty close to the real thing from what I've seen - it's just this impossible printing. Or it's real and was made on april fools day or as a joke...
PS: yes, the 1Q logo (for Erste Qualitaet - first rate quality) does belong to the right below the model.
Joachim
