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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

So....SF 8X42 has arrived... (1 Viewer)

If some of you guys don't see the green cast better don't look for it otherwise you can not be happy with your binoculars like people who don't see CA and some others tell them how easy is to find it........then people instead to enjoy their optics they become a CA hunters in every view.

As photographer is very easy for me to find color cast, i process Thousands of R.A.W pictures every year and color correction is one of the first steps.

Don't see it doesnt meant that is not there, well for practical purposes like enjoy the view is true but just because the combination eye brain always lies and as humans we see many times what we wan to see, not in photography of course.

JUST CHECK RED colors with SF and you will see what happens.......errrr where is the red ??? or the blue SKY that becomes subdued and grey......green filter we call in photography. Maybe people don't see it but the consequences are there affecting other colors.

The most surprising thing to me is why Zeiss don't use the same coatings of HT on SF ? on HT they have already some green color so obviously the green cast on HT is much much lower, in fact HT is more neutral and better balanced than SF and by some people including myself shows better color than the SV.

Time ago i had and HT and was a lemon right tube was not sharp so i returned it.

Now my SF was sold mainly because AT LEAST FOR ME the green cast.....maybe i have a photographic eye

ZEISS PLEASE CAN YOU CREATE A TRULLY MASTERPIECE AGAIN ? Remember 10x50 oberkocken or 7x42 and 10x42 BGAT

Just and idea....

SF with HT binocular coatings, HT Schmidt-Pecan prisms like those on the new Leicas HD plus

Bitting sharp view like leicas HD plus and swarovision

And an elegant black rubber armour ......... by the way the flare suppression and tridimensionality is awesome so leave it.

A trully Zeiss fan.
 
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Globetrotter,
I am a vivid photographer too and I know very well when a color cast occurs and when not. With my well-trained eyes I can not find the color cast you describe as terrible green.
From your post 41 I understand that you expect quite a lot from the Leica HD-plus with HT glass. I almost finished my investigations of the new HD-plus and find that not a whole lot is changed. The only thing we could observe is a slight increase in light transmission over the whole wavelenght range, which results in a little brighter image and no change in color reproduction, since the spectra of the standard HD and the HD-plus are perfectly parallel over the whole wavelength range we have investigated.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
Gijs van Ginkel said:
Globetrotter,
I am a vivid photographer too and I know very well when a color cast occurs and when not. With my well-trained eyes I can not find the color cast you describe as terrible green.
From your post 41 I understand that you expect quite a lot from the Leica HD-plus with HT glass. I almost finished my investigations of the new HD-plus and find that not a whole lot is changed. The only thing we could observe is a slight increase in light transmission over the whole wavelenght range, which results in a little brighter image and no change in color reproduction, since the spectra of the standard HD and the HD-plus are perfectly parallel over the whole wavelength range we have investigated.
Gijs van Ginkel
Click to expand...

So the pictures shown on bestbinocularreviews.com and the impression of binomania guys are NOT RUE ? Maybe there is an improvement on SF coatings from first units to the most recent ones.

Otherwise all we have a problem with our eyes.;)
 
GLOBETROTTER said:
So the pictures shown on bestbinocularreviews.com and the impression of binomania guys are NOT RUE ? Maybe there is an improvement on SF coatings from first units to the most recent ones.

Otherwise all we have a problem with our eyes.;)
Click to expand...

or maybe problems to read,
binomania says SF have more neutral color rendition than HT and FL:

http://www.binomania.it/recensione-zeiss-victory-sf-il-re-del-birdwatching/

concerning bestbinocularreview, I wrote previously in this thread that testing in halogen light may not be optimal for judging color rendition, since the blue content is quite low.
 
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PhilR. said:
From what I've read, people have also done this with the Zeiss 32mm Conquest HD's too.

I can see why this might happen, since the eyecups take more effort to twist than does every other bino I have ever tried.......
Click to expand...

Yeah! Same here! And I've tried a LOT! :t:
 
concerning bestbinocularreview, I wrote previously in this thread that testing in halogen light is not optimal for judging color rendition.[/QUOTE]

Well so them Leica and nikon EDG don't have a red cast and swarovski a blue one.

Because the Halogen light only affects The Zeiss Test, ohhh my GOD !!!!!

I have a Lot of Zeiss binoculars at home i like the brand a lot !!!! but is not perfect as others are not perfect too.

So for you the SF don't have any any color cast ? really ? is perfect ?

I think that Tobias as good videographer already correct illumination problems for the test......
 
So this AM I head to Swan Creek Wildlife Management Area and in hand I have a few binoculars namely the SF 8X42, UV HD +, SV 8X32, and with SV 10X42 in a harness, just in case ;). I was able to view and ID a number of birds switching from binocular to binocular. No oddballs but including flickers, eastern bluebirds, white-breasted nuthatch, cardinals, robins, RW blackbirds, brown thrashers, et al just to name a few.

Today, a few noteworthy observations. After using ONLY the Leica for a while it really IS noticeable what an extra 55 ft of FOV will do for you when swapping to the SF. A flatter FOV may contribute to this. I like it. The little SV 8X32 isn't far behind. What a great binocular. There's been a lot of talk about colors on this post lately. I mentioned the above birds for a reason....a lot of different colors. To me, with my eyes the color of the birds, the fields, the woods, the flooded fields for waterfowl, the sky all seemed superb. Wonderful coloration with everything viewed.
 
GLOBETROTTER said:
concerning bestbinocularreview, I wrote previously in this thread that testing in halogen light is not optimal for judging color rendition.

Well so them Leica and nikon EDG don't have a red cast and swarovski a blue one.

Because the Halogen light only affects The Zeiss Test, ohhh my GOD !!!!!

I have a Lot of Zeiss binoculars at home i like the brand a lot !!!! but is not perfect as others are not perfect too.

So for you the SF don't have any any color cast ? really ? is perfect ?

I think that Tobias as good videographer already correct illumination problems for the test......
Click to expand...

Gijs likely answered this in post 23
 
perterra said:
Gijs likely answered this in post 23
Click to expand...
I just got back from Cabella's in Thornton,CO. They didn't have any of the high end Leica Ultravids Plus's to look at and at first I didn't see any Zeiss SF's in the display case. I asked the clerk if they had any and he gave me a dumb look like what is an SF. Duh. I told him according to your website you have a 10x42 Zeiss SF in stock. He then started digging under the shelves through all the Swaro's and low and behold out came an expensive looking box with the blue and white logo on it. Zeiss SF 10x42! I had hit paydirt! He opened a rather large box and pulled out a nice quality looking case and good looking strap. Hmmm, the accessories are sweet. It had that nice German smell I love so much. He handed me the binoculars and I was impressed with their light weight and good balance for a 42mm. I had no trouble adjusting the diopter and setting the eyecups. Everything worked fine. The armour is a little weird and you seem to see fingerprints on it more than a Swaro but it is still nice. The binoculars are lighter at the objective end and it is noticeable. I asked the clerk to get out the pair of Swarovski 10x50 SV's I saw sitting in the display case to compare them too. Too cut to the chase the Zeiss SF are very impressive. They do have a noticeable bigger FOV than the 10x50 SV's. I tried them again and again and REALLY tried to see the "Green Monster" but I could not see it. The S/N was 4359321. To my eyes the whites are white just like the Swarovski's. The focus was perfect on the SF's but the Swaro's were too with smooth tension in both directions. The Zeiss SF did not quite have the edge sharpness of the SV but they are very close and you don't notice it much with the big FOV. I think Zeiss may have gotten rid of any green tint the earlier models had because these had none. I am still not ready to trade the SV's in on these but they are superb binoculars. Of course any binocular over $2500 should be. Right? I think I want a pair but I don't need them. Hmm.
 
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[email protected] said:
He handed me the binoculars and I was impressed with their light weight and good balance for a 42mm. I had no trouble adjusting the diopter and setting the eyecups. Everything worked fine. The armour is a little weird and you seem to see fingerprints on it more than a Swaro but it is still nice. The binoculars are lighter at the objective end and it is noticeable. I asked the clerk to get out the pair of Swarovski 10x50 SV's I saw sitting in the display case to compare them too. Too cut to the chase the Zeiss SF are very impressive. They do have a noticeable bigger FOV than the 10x50 SV's. I tried them again and again and REALLY tried to see the "Green Monster" but I could not see it. The S/N was 4359321. To my eyes the whites are white just like the Swarovski's. The focus was perfect on the SF's but the Swaro's were too with smooth tension in both directions. The Zeiss SF did not quite have the edge sharpness of the SV but they are very close and you don't notice it much with the big FOV. I think Zeiss may have gotten rid of any green tint the earlier models had because these had none. I am still not ready to trade the SV's in on these but they are superb binoculars. Of course any binocular over $2500 should be. Right?...
Click to expand...

Dennis

I had a similar experience at BPS in Springfield this past December. Yep, as far as the SF10x42 indoors, no color cast to my eyes. Only on a bright sunny day at a Zeiss retailer in November did they seem to be "slightly" on the cool side (in direct 10x50 SV comparison), but certainly overall had a very natural color balance and accuracy. I also noted edge sharpness leaning to the big SV, but the SF shared equality in resolution and ease of view! I sensed the SF's bigger FOV, but felt the SV flat field to somewhat equal this out. The SF's excell in the weight, balance and ergonomic categories and considering all optical and handling aspects, the SF line up does offer superb optical instrument alternatives! :t:

Ted
 
GLOBETROTTER said:
So the pictures shown on bestbinocularreviews.com and the impression of binomania guys are NOT RUE ? Maybe there is an improvement on SF coatings from first units to the most recent ones.

Otherwise all we have a problem with our eyes.;)
Click to expand...

Certain pertinent aspects not included in this discussion are Chromatic Adaptation by the observer's brain, and Color Constancy.

This Wiki article about Color Cast summarizes the situation fairly well regarding brains vs. cameras.
...In general, the human eye does not notice the unnatural colour, because our eyes and brains adjust and compensate for different types of light in ways that cameras cannot.
Click to expand...

Accordingly, using a camera as a perceptual surrogate is highly questionable, and I reject the practice. In the absence of anything better, I prefer subjective reports that are not predicated on looking from one instrument to another. Why? Because most minor, and sometimes not so minor, differences will be adapted to in use.

That's just how I see it. :brains:

Ed
 
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Theo98 said:
Dennis

I had a similar experience at BPS in Springfield this past December. Yep, as far as the SF10x42 indoors, no color cast to my eyes. Only on a bright sunny day at a Zeiss retailer in November did they seem to be "slightly" on the cool side (in direct 10x50 SV comparison), but certainly overall had a very natural color balance and accuracy. I also noted edge sharpness leaning to the big SV, but the SF shared equality in resolution and ease of view! I sensed the SF's bigger FOV, but felt the SV flat field to somewhat equal this out. The SF's excell in the weight, balance and ergonomic categories and considering all optical and handling aspects, the SF line up does offer superb optical instrument alternatives! :t:

Ted
Click to expand...
Yes, I was very impressed with the Zeiss SF's. There has been a lot of criticism leveled at them with the eye cups being cheap and not working good and the green tint problem but I just don't see it. Optically and ergonomically they are very nice. They are a big improvement over the older Zeiss FL's , as far as, I can see. I wouldn't mind having a pair. Now let's see. 8x42 or 10x42?
 
[email protected] said:
Yes, I was very impressed with the Zeiss SF's. There has been a lot of criticism leveled at them with the eye cups being cheap and not working good and the green tint problem but I just don't see it. Optically and ergonomically they are very nice. They are a big improvement over the older Zeiss FL's , as far as, I can see. I wouldn't mind having a pair. Now let's see. 8x42 or 10x42?
Click to expand...

Thanks for this Dennis. You wouldn't have the comfort of the big EP that you have on your magnificent EL 10x50s but then the SFs don't weigh as much. You could choose EL or SF according to how you feel on the day.

Lee
 
GLOBETROTTER said:
JUST CHECK RED colors with SF the blue SKY that becomes subdued and grey......green filter we call in photography.
Click to expand...

In the Western Isles of Scotland there is an island called Berneray that we have visited about 30 time over the last 20 years or so.

The northern and western shore is a pure white sand beach about 5 km / 3 miles long and last year we visited it on a blazing sunshiney day with deep blue sky and dazzling white sand. I think I would have noticed if the white sand was actually a sickly shade of green or if the sky was murky grey.

Lee
 
I was surprised to see that the last HT I tried had the distinct green yellow characteristics of the FL, though perhaps a hint more blue in direct comparison. The HT and FL are models I only try occasionally so I don’t have any real feel for variability, but that one appeared distinctly different from others I’ve tried where the blue appeared relatively better and the red content contrasted distinctly with the FL. I wouldn’t know if this is some random variation or a deliberate change in design.

I’ve tried rather mere Swarovskis and the EL SVs and SLCs seem quite variable to me. Perhaps half I’ve tried were very close to neutral as far as my eyes can judge, but some appeared to have excessive blue levels and had reduced performance in hazy conditions and seem quite glarey compared to other samples. Though rarer, I’ve seen a couple that were definitely warmer as well.

I can only guess, but perhaps the coating process is not completely uniform across all the batchs of lenses and/or prisms? With so many surfaces, you might think the total spectum would tend to average out, but perhaps not entirely.

David
 
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typo said:
I was surprised to see that the last HT I tried had the distinct green yellow characteristics of the FL, though perhaps a hint more blue in direct comparison. The HT and FL are models I only try occasionally so I don’t have any real feel for variability, but that one appeared distinctly different from others I’ve tried where the blue appeared relatively better and the red content contrasted distinctly with the FL. I wouldn’t know if this is some random variation or a deliberate change in design.

I’ve tried rather mere Swarovskis and the EL SVs and SLCs seem quite variable to me. Perhaps half I’ve tried were very close to neutral as far as my eyes can judge, but some appeared to have excessive blue levels and had reduced performance in hazy conditions and seem quite glarey compared to other samples. Though rarer, I’ve seen a couple that were definitely warmer as well.

I can only guess, but perhaps the coating process is not completely uniform across all the batchs of lenses and/or prisms? With so many surfaces differences, you might think the total spectum would tend to average out, but perhaps not entirely.

David
Click to expand...

Hi David

There must be a certain amount of variability as you suggest.

I have actually used more SFs than HTs but I will look out for this next time.

Lee
 
typo said:
I was surprised to see that the last HT I tried had the distinct green yellow characteristics of the FL, though perhaps a hint more blue in direct comparison. The HT and FL are models I only try occasionally so I don’t have any real feel for variability, but that one appeared distinctly different from others I’ve tried where the blue appeared relatively better and the red content contrasted distinctly with the FL. I wouldn’t know if this is some random variation or a deliberate change in design.

I’ve tried rather mere Swarovskis and the EL SVs and SLCs seem quite variable to me. Perhaps half I’ve tried were very close to neutral as far as my eyes can judge, but some appeared to have excessive blue levels and had reduced performance in hazy conditions and seem quite glarey compared to other samples. Though rarer, I’ve seen a couple that were definitely warmer as well.

I can only guess, but perhaps the coating process is not completely uniform across all the batchs of lenses and/or prisms? With so many surfaces differences, you might think the total spectum would tend to average out, but perhaps not entirely.

David
Click to expand...

Was the light consistent is all your views?
 
perterra said:
Was the light consistent is all your views?
Click to expand...

Certainly not. However I am very aware of the changes in ambient light can make to colour perception and take great care to avoid being misled when I can. Those comments were all based on comparative testing within a few minutes, but obviously my comments cover a number of different occasions. When you have 10 or more Swarovskis in front of you the outliers are obvious. I've done that on three or four occasions and smaller sets several more times. I've tried a lot of FLs and their view is very distinctive. When the HT and SF were launched I spent some time comparing multiple samples across the different models and on those occasions the new designs were far more neutral than the FL and any variation was within a narrow range. This last occasion there was a single HT, a single FL and five other binoculars including two of my own that I use for reference when reviewing and have compared to the Zeiss models before. The HT on that day was very FL like in my opinion and quite different to the ones I've viewed previously.

David
 
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[email protected] said:
I just got back from Cabella's in Thornton,CO. They didn't have any of the high end Leica Ultravids Plus's to look at and at first I didn't see any Zeiss SF's in the display case. I asked the clerk if they had any and he gave me a dumb look like what is an SF. Duh. I told him according to your website you have a 10x42 Zeiss SF in stock. He then started digging under the shelves through all the Swaro's and low and behold out came an expensive looking box with the blue and white logo on it. Zeiss SF 10x42! I had hit paydirt! He opened a rather large box and pulled out a nice quality looking case and good looking strap. Hmmm, the accessories are sweet. It had that nice German smell I love so much. He handed me the binoculars and I was impressed with their light weight and good balance for a 42mm. I had no trouble adjusting the diopter and setting the eyecups. Everything worked fine. The armour is a little weird and you seem to see fingerprints on it more than a Swaro but it is still nice. The binoculars are lighter at the objective end and it is noticeable. I asked the clerk to get out the pair of Swarovski 10x50 SV's I saw sitting in the display case to compare them too. Too cut to the chase the Zeiss SF are very impressive. They do have a noticeable bigger FOV than the 10x50 SV's. I tried them again and again and REALLY tried to see the "Green Monster" but I could not see it. The S/N was 4359321. To my eyes the whites are white just like the Swarovski's. The focus was perfect on the SF's but the Swaro's were too with smooth tension in both directions. The Zeiss SF did not quite have the edge sharpness of the SV but they are very close and you don't notice it much with the big FOV. I think Zeiss may have gotten rid of any green tint the earlier models had because these had none. I am still not ready to trade the SV's in on these but they are superb binoculars. Of course any binocular over $2500 should be. Right? I think I want a pair but I don't need them. Hmm.
Click to expand...

Nothing beats putting YOUR hands on them. :t:

BTW...my serial number is WAY past those SFs...4375476.

I think my issue with the eyecups has been put to bed but still Leica>Swarovski>Zeiss.

The optics, FOV, focus adjustment, ergonomics...EXCELLEENT!

Don't TRADE the SV for Pete's sake! ADD the 8X42s! :t:
 
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