Laser pointers (1 Viewer)

Neil Harvey · Mar 6, 2015

I was appalled to see NHBS offering for sale a laser pointer, intended for use by birdwatchers to point out birds to their fellows. This seems to be a shockingly intrusive suggestion and I feel it has no place in our hobby.

While the laser pointer may well be safe, from a health point of view, it will undoubtedly have the potential to cause disturbance, by dazzling the birds upon which it is used. This could easily affect the behaviour and success of breeding species, and could result in a criminal offence being committed in the case of Schedule 1 species.

Quite apart from the risk of disturbance, the thought that future birding trips will be blighted by a proliferation of laser spots fills me with dread.

Here's a link to the item. I have sent an email of protest to NHBS and I would hope that others will agree with me.

Regards
Neil

http://www.nhbs.com/title/204035/bi...-58570481&mc_cid=bfbbb5485f&mc_eid=65ef9bb033

Barred Wobbler · Mar 6, 2015

The laser is so concentrated that the beam would have to fall directly on a bird's retina to affect it, and in use it just doesn't do that.

I was recently abroad and a couple of the professional guides were using them, one in forest canopy to bring our attention to unobtrusive birds moving through the canopy that otherwise wouldn't have been seen by some of the party. The beam never touched the bird in question, nor even came close to doing so. The typical method of operation would be to point the beam at a tree trunk with an instruction such as 'See the spot? Follow it up the trunk' (spot moves), 'now look above the leaves that the spot is now on, about three feet above the spot'.

Result?

Bird seen, everyone moves on, bird not affected one iota. It never even saw the spot.

Another example here - a very unobtrusive rail moving on mud amongst mangrove roots. This shot is when it came into the open.

You can see the green spot in the bottom left of this photo. The rail just got on with its business and ignored everything else, and that spot was much closer than other examples, where the spot was kept about a metre away from the bird in question. The bird didn't even notice it. As the rail moved to the left, the spot moved away from it, keeping pace. The rail kept feeding.

A complete non-issue in my view. Laser pointers can be a nuisance if misused, but used properly, as they are in about 99% of cases they can actually reduce the impact on a bird of a birding party trying to see it, simply because they don't need to spend so much time trying to find it and point it out by arm waving and vocal instructions to their less-observant companions.

The spot in use never even touches the bird, much less the tiny spot that is its retina.

Mark Lew1s · Mar 6, 2015

Note that at at least one tern colony, a red laser pen has been used to deter predators that were visiting the colony at night (mainly grey heron). So they do have the potential to disturb a bird. However, in the UK, we really don't need them for every day birding, so I don't think anyone needs to worry about a 'proliferation of laser spots'. Barred Wobbler also points out that using them can be done responsibly - and I'd hope that anyone who uses one of these follows the example.

I guess you might ask what the alternatives are to discreetly pointing out a bird at a distance? Approaching it?

Mono · Mar 6, 2015

They are virtually standard issue for group birding in the tropical forest, never seen one used in the UK for pointing out birds I think a standard UK 5mW laser pointer would be too dim in anything other than a forest canopy.

It is a bit like the Americans and their phishing, we just don't do it this side of the pond.

halftwo · Mar 6, 2015

Used frequently in Ecuador by guides. And elsewhere.
As already stated the laser pointed near - not at - the bird. No problem.

Xenospiza · Mar 6, 2015

Quite a few guides use laser pointers and *all those* that I have encountered have managed to chase birds of by pointing straight at a bird, circling the spot around a bird like a maniac, or pointing so close that the bird jumped.
The preferred strategy is to tell the guide off at the first instance he gets the pointer out of his pocket.

Apparently some birds on Madagascar follow the spots around, but South American birds don't!

csanchez7 · Mar 8, 2015

In some areas such as the Amazonian Rainforest, a laser pointer is absolutely essential to help guide the eye of clients to a bird. Often, birds are sitting still behind many layers of vegetation (such as a puffbird or jacamar) in very dim lighting. Some terrestrial species such as antbirds are often moving along on in the leaf litter behind tangles of branches and saplings. Usually, these habitats are visually homogeneous and lack any salient features to direct someone to the target bird. That's where the laser pointer comes in.

In an environment where perspective is everything, where even a person standing next to you may have a blocked view due to a leaf or branch, laser pointers really help. I have never had to use one in the United States, but I found it very useful in Brazil.

You never point it at the bird itself. You point it at a nearby branch to create a visual marker to guide the client's eye. There would be a lot of missed birds and frustration otherwise with all the long winded descriptions of "follow the yellow leaf that droops down, then go up the curved branch, then follow that...oops, the bird is gone."

pete wragg · Mar 8, 2015

Laser pointers are like tape-luring.
Totally acceptable abroad,Totally unacceptable at home.

alan_rymer · Mar 8, 2015

I bought a cheap red laser pointer with the thought it would scare the Grey Squirrels off the feeders at my local reserve. They damage several feeders each year.
The laser pointers were totally ignored!:-C

Peter C. · Mar 10, 2015

pete wragg said:
Laser pointers are like tape-luring.
Totally acceptable abroad,Totally unacceptable at home.

Don't understand the comparison. Tape luring always disturbs (or, if I'm being charitable, "perturbs") the bird it is directed at. That's the whole point of the exercise - shake the bird out of what it was doing, into doing something that the watcher wants, either responding vocally, coming over to investigate, or both.

Pointing a laser dot at a branch "two feet down and to the left", as my guides on a trip to the Napo did, is something the bird doesn't even notice. They just sit there.

Peter C.

dantheman · Mar 10, 2015

Peter C. said:
Don't understand the comparison.

In the depths of the rainforest, a laser pointer may not be a problem, in an overpopulated island with limited nature reserves and other conflicts of interests the idea and use of a multitude of laser pointers wielded by amateurs and misguided persons doesn't bear thinking about. Hence one similarity to the use of tape-luring/call back.

Peter C. · Mar 10, 2015

dantheman said:
In the depths of the rainforest, a laser pointer may not be a problem, in an overpopulated island with limited nature reserves and other conflicts of interests the idea and use of a multitude of laser pointers wielded by amateurs and misguided persons doesn't bear thinking about. Hence one similarity to the use of tape-luring/call back.

That's very true. Just never heard of anybody using them in a situation where line of sight is not a problem.

SteveClark · Mar 11, 2015

Essential for guides in New Guinea as well. Never pointed at the birds - always used to indicate where the bird was (i.e. a foot above the dot). Absolutely not an issue when used this way.

cendrawasih · Mar 11, 2015

i think its all depends on the user himself. I have a bird-guiding friend who use it only for a very critical moment, when the bird location is very hard to explain by words (especially in english!). He never point it straight to the birds, but make a big circle around carefully, or to the nearest trunk. For me it is so effective to show some bird above high canopy as long as you know how to use it right.

pete wragg · Mar 11, 2015

pete wragg said:
Laser pointers are like tape-luring.
Totally acceptable abroad,Totally unacceptable at home.

I wasn't trying to say that either is good or bad. Just that british birders seem to find different things acceptable when they're abroad.
At the Eastern Crowned Warbler last year,several people were struggling to find it when it was stood motionless high in the canopy. I'm sure if someone had pulled out a laserpointer they would have got a right slagging.

Pete.

stuartvine · Mar 11, 2015

"Just that british birders seem to find different things acceptable when they're abroad." As do British non-birders - how do you think we built an Empire? ;-)

THE_FERN · Mar 11, 2015

Even though the pointer isn't directed at the bird but close to it, it still has the ability to disturb at least some species in south America. At the very least you can tell they're aware of it, with some reacting by moving away from or towards it. If it weren't used you'd see far fewer species, and even though they do disturb I honestly don't think this amounts to much as the number of times a particular individual is affected must be tiny

temmie · Mar 11, 2015

Laser pointers are totally unacceptable!

Try to blend with the locals in the rainforest. They know best so only use shotguns and chainsaws!
When in Rome...

Andrew · Mar 13, 2015

pete wragg said:
At the Eastern Crowned Warbler last year,several people were struggling to find it when it was stood motionless high in the canopy. I'm sure if someone had pulled out a laserpointer they would have got a right slagging.

Pete.

Not so sure Pete. I think most people would have waited until they came home to their computers and moaned about it.

Regards,
Andrew.

rosbifs · Mar 13, 2015

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ll0FUaHzL98

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