various, USA, New Mexico & Arizona (1 Viewer)

Larry,

I picked up my first US bird books in the 1960s, after arriving as a teaching fellow (i.e. grunt). In those days the Peterson Field Guides were the state of the art. I lost my first Eastern Birds years ago but still used Western Birds until 3 years ago, after buying Sibley.

There have been a load of changes since the 1961 Edition, starting with Arctic and Pacific Loon. The empidonax complex has changed considerably. For example:

Empidonax traillii was Traill's Flycatcher (Alder Flycatcher) with no mention of Willow Flycatcher.

Empidonax difficilis was Westen Flycatcher: since split into Western Slope and Cordilleran.

There was also a Coues' Flycatcher, Contopus pertinax, which I never recorded, described as a large grey flycatcher found in mountains near the Mexican border. This seems to have disappeared into the ether.

DFF,

Thank you for the input. I simply cannot, however, think of digging out 50 years of records to update them to present taxonomy. If I do get around to updating my US list I shall include both Willow and Alder Flycatchers. Even if the Okinagen Valley birds could have been either species, those seen in summer in New Mexico were almost certainly Willow and those in Alaska, Alder. Goodness only knows which species I saw in states like Pennsylvania and Michigan over the years ... probably both. If I am wrong, I am fooling nobody but myself.

Regards to you both,

Dave

auchinbowie said:

Larry,


There was also a Coues' Flycatcher, Contopus pertinax, which I never recorded, described as a large grey flycatcher found in mountains near the Mexican border. This seems to have disappeared into the ether.

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Now called Greater Pewee- though I don't know if that is simply a name change or the result of a split/lump.

For what it's worth... my first impression was Dusky Flycatcher for the first based on primary projection/tail length, but I wouldn't bet my life on it. Regarding the raven- argh. Tough call. I thought the tail and bill pointed more toward Common, as does location, but I could probably be convinced otherwise.

Hallo,

thanks a lot for your comments - interesting posts!

As I understand you, bird #1 the flycatcher could be: Cordilleran, Dusky, Willow or Alder Flycatcher.
Unfortunately I don't have another pic of #1.

I am not very familiar with the birds of North America. I bought The Sibley and the Field guide of the NGS. I called the Flycatcher Cordilleran because the drawings and descriptions of The Sibley fit him best.
To my opinion the bill of Dusky is shorter, the eye-ring of Willow is weaker and the Alder Flycatcher isn't supposed to occur in New Mexico.

Further comments on the Flycatcher welcome.

Eckart

On second look, I agree that the bill looks rather long for Dusky, but good for Cordilleran. It looks like it's in a juniper woodland- habitat, along with structure of the bird and prominent eye-ring, should allow us to rule out Willow at least. The color of the bird doesn't seem to fit Cordilleran, but I've said myself in some other ID thread that color is the least informative (and often misleading) character in Empid ID- the lack of yellow-washed plumage could be an artifact of the lighting and/or a drab first fall bird.

So, tentatively switching to the Cordilleran camp, but in the end it might best be left as Empidonax sp.

As the Empid is in heavy shade there is always the possibility that the pale lores wouldn't show on the photo. Judging by the way the eyering extends to a point behind the eye and the bill not looking either particularly long or short I'd say Cordilleran would be a good call. Thankfully, it wasn't in the overlap regions of CA, OR or WA and we don't have to decide between Cordilleran and Pacific-slope.

Chris

The Empidonax has a long tail and fairly short primary projection and, if you use a bit of imagination, a thin bill, all features suitable for an ID of Dusky. I don't know that the eye rings provides any useful info (other than to rule out other flycatcher genera), but it also is not inconsistent with ID as Dusky.

As for the raven, it is a juvenile/immature, with its pink feet, blue-based bill, and palish remiges. Thus, ID features that are often marginally useful on adults are even less useful on this bird. With that said, the bird struck me as a Common, particularly because of its age. In my experience, juvs of the two raven species tend to have shorter, rounder tails, so a juv raven with an obviously wedge-shaped tail ought to be a Common. However, I also feel that ravens are accurately identified only under the very best of situations, and this ain't one of those!

auchinbowie said:

Oddly, this thread has added one more to my US "list". Presumably birds seen years ago in the Okinagen Valley were Alder, not Willow.

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Where is the Okinagen Valley?