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von Pander and "his" bilingual Ground-jay

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Old Sunday 15th June 2014, 11:32   #1
Calalp
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Post von Pander and "his" bilingual Ground-jay

Here´s another little translation task for you readers knowing French … and Latin!

This time regarding the species Turkestan Ground-jay Podoces panderi a k a "Pander's Ground Jay"

As far as I understand it this one commemorate the Latvian-born, German embryologist, geologist, palaeontologist Christian Heinrich von Pander (1794–1865) – whose original Latvian name was: Kristiāns Heinrihs fon Panders. In French (as in the Type description of this bird) written as "Chrétien-Henri Pander" – which might be the reason why there seem to be some confusion of what his name really was!?

This bird was described by Gotthelf Fischer von Waldheim in 1821, in a quite rare Moscow publication: Lettre adressée au nom de la Société Impériale des Naturalistes de Moscou, à l'un de ses membres M. le docteur Chrétien-Henri Pander, … contenant une Notice sur un nouveau genre d'Oiseau et sur plusieurs nouveaux Insectes. (Attached as pdf.)

It´s mostly a list (in Latin) of the different Species; Mammals , Birds, reptiles (none!) and Insect etc etc collected during an Expedition to Orenburg and Bokaram.

I don´t think the type description itself (on p.7, in Latin) tells us anything regarding von Pander, but at the beginning of the same publication there is a short letter (pp.3-4) to von Pander himself, from Gotthelf Fischer (von Waldheim)!

But here I suddenly get stuck … once again … due to my defective knowledge of French!

Is there anyone of you kind guys "out there", with better understanding of French, that feel like reading that letter and give me a short summary of what it tells us!? Is there anything in those two pages that explains how he got this Ground-jay of "his own"?

And please, if there´s any sentence, like a "good quote" that verifies this, or clearly link him to this bird, do pin-point it for me, so I can use it in my entry for this man.

Anyone feel up to it?

PS. Is there anything else, in that whole publication, that tells us anything more regarding von Pander?
Attached Files
File Type: pdf Fischer von Waldheim 1821, Moscow.pdf (2.04 MB, 38 views)
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Old Sunday 15th June 2014, 13:40   #2
l_raty
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I don't really see a "magic quote", I'm afraid.
Lots of rhetoric and complicated sentences, thus quite hard to translate word for word... But, basically:
- He thanks Pander on behalf of the Imperial Naturalists' Society of Moscow, for objects sent for their museum, and a history of his works during a trip to Bokara, where no European representative had hitherto been seen, under the leading of "Monsieur de Negri".
- He then adds that he finds there the occasion to send him some observations derived from his (Pander's) works, including "une note des mammifères et des oiseaux que j'ai pu placer au Muséum" (a note about mammals and birds that I could place at the Museum), and the diagnoses of new insects.
- He also thanks Pander in his own name for having made it possible for him to take part to this trip.
- And he regrets that he could not present Pander's notes about new plants, due to "Docteur Fischer" having sent them back without communicating them to him.

Last edited by l_raty : Sunday 15th June 2014 at 13:43.
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Old Sunday 15th June 2014, 16:48   #3
Calalp
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Thumbs up But great job trying, Laurent!

Don´t worry of not finding The "magic quote". We still do know who he was.
The title itself is dedication enough!

Thanks for the effort and your rapid replies! It did add some extra's to my entry of this man and "his" Ground-jay.

That´ll do. I´m pleased ...

Cheers!

Last edited by Calalp : Monday 16th June 2014 at 07:26.
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Old Monday 16th June 2014, 07:43   #4
Calalp
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Question Some thing remain: His name!?

I think I might, maybe, was too quick on this one!

James, how come you changed your MS's regarding panderi?
Quote:
Jobling 2010: Christian-Heinrich von Pander (1794–1865) Prussian geologist and palaeontologist (Podoces).
versus
Quote:
Jobling HBW Alive, today 2014-06-16): Heinz Christian Pander also known as Christian-Heinrich von Pander (1794-1865) Baltic Prussian geologist, pioneer embryologist, palaeontologist (syn. Parus bokharensis, Podoces).
Also compare with the following Wiki-pages:

Heinz Christian Pander or Christian Heinrich Pander in English
Christian Heinrich von Pander alt. Kristiāns Heinrihs fon Panders in German
Kristians Panders or Kristiāns Heinrihs Panders (alt. Kristiāns Heinrihs fon Panders) in Latvian
Christian Heinrich Pander or Heinz Christian Pander in Swedish(!)

I haven´t seen any genealogical material, but according to those pages he was born in July 1794, in Riga, Latvia … and he died in September 1865, in St. Petersburg, Russia. The dates of his birth vs death in the Wiki-pages differ suspicously!

So what do you, and everybody else, think?

Heinrich or Heinz? Noble or not?

Anyone know?

Last edited by Calalp : Tuesday 17th June 2014 at 07:34. Reason: cleaning
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Old Tuesday 17th June 2014, 07:48   #5
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I can only offer one piece of information: amongst German-speaking people, Heinz is a diminuitive form of Heinrich (compare Jim vs James for English speakers). At that time I would assume his given name to be Heinrich, but he might well have been known as Heinz.

Andrea
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Old Tuesday 17th June 2014, 08:41   #6
Calalp
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Thumbs up Andrea, thanks!

Once again you deliver some important additional info ... that might be the simple answer!

Lets wait for James's reply.

Cheers!

PS. Any clues/ideas regarding that noble fon/von?
Was he "knighted"?
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Old Tuesday 17th June 2014, 09:57   #7
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The references appear to come down in favour of Christian-Heinrich von Pander. Although the region became part of Russia the year after he was born, Pander was one of the German-speaking ruling class of Latvia/Lithuania (from the original colonisation by the Teutonic Knights and Knights of the Sword) whose rights and privileges were upheld by Imperial Russia. They were not to lose those rights until the Russian Revolution. I agree with kitefarrago that Heinz is the familiar form of Heinrich (cf. Fritz for Friedrich), so will slightly modify my ms/HBWAlive Key.
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Old Wednesday 18th June 2014, 15:47   #8
Calalp
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Thumbs up Thanks James!

This will do. I now think I understand enough to finish my entry on this man and "his" Ground-jay ...

von Pander ... over and out!
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