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Best quality control among the big 3 EUROs?

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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 00:53   #1
308CAL
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Question Best quality control among the big 3 EUROs?

I have to say in searching this forum, I have read about more issues with Leica's mainly the Ultravids and even the FL's appear to differ fairly often in image quality. ALso the FL's have had what 4 changes in 3 years?

It seems like swarovski doesnt get reports of armor peeling off, poor focus knobs (slow focus yes but was remedied) or varying optical quality binos. I havent read many people say this EL was good but i have seen some bad ones...

What do you guys htink?

It appears that Swaro would have the best quality control out of the big euros or the least variation in consistency??
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 01:16   #2
shaocaholica
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You can just do your own QC by buying more than 1 pair and keeping the one(s) that pass
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 02:38   #3
bruleke
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I am new here and I have recently bought my first pair of Zen-Ray but I think I can anwer this question with another question:

How many people do you think that can pay for a Swaroviski? The percentage is low and so the number of people who complains about it.
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 05:31   #4
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There is enough complaining here that it has gotten to the point that any time somebody wants advice on buying a new alpha, quality control and defect incidence appear to be the overwhelming factors. It used to be image quality, ergonomics, the fun stuff you know, that were the deciding factors. Is this wave of negativism justified? It's hard for me to be sure, but I suspect not.

Part of the situation is that only squeaky wheels are audiable, so if you only know of wheels that squeak, you must think that all wheels squeak. Part of the problem is the rush to any anticipated new model, and the initial discovery of problems that only a large sample set will uncover, followed quickly by corrective of the problem getting the frequent warranty service, by the manufacturer. Part is the poor statistical quality of the complaints here. Vast threads and great verbosity have resulted from problems in alphas whose numbers are very easily counted on the fingers of one hand. And part of the problem just may be that the whole world is going to hell in a handbasket. Yes it is friends. Maybe it is not a good time to buy a binocular!

I have one each alpha, none very old, one used hard, one medium, one new, all without flaws, save the arguable design compromises in any binocular. I have also owned cheap binoculars that, although not very good, never needed repair. I just have to "tsk tsk" all the naysaying. Not buying an alpha because you fear a defect is like not fooling around with girls because you fear getting your heart broken. Both will happen at some point, but come on, live life!
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 08:51   #5
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"Not buying an alpha because you fear a defect is like not fooling around with girls because you fear getting your heart broken."

I like this one Ron.

Regards,Steve
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 10:31   #6
308CAL
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yes the squeaky wheel is magnified on a forum but leica obviously had issues with their focus becuase they changed it on the new HD.
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 17:35   #7
temmie
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just what I have seen:
at least 3 Zeiss Victory FL with the little cap on the focus wheel falling off.
at least 2 Leica Ultravid HD with the rubber litterally peeling off.
at least 2 Swarovski EL with water or debris in the binocular.

What I have done is not bothered at all, and just bought the Zeiss Victory FL which had, in my opinion, the best view, and enjoyed my birdwatching double as much as with my previous Optolyth 10x40B touring, which is not a really bad binocular at all (12 years old and still going strong as back-up bin in the car).

So what I suggest if you are afraid of binoculars:
Buy a Swarovski. Their warranty seems to be the best.

And @ Bruleke, I have to say that allmost all dutch and english birders I meet are carrying a Swarovski EL. I allmost see no Zeiss. Belgians are more Leica orientated. Few Zeiss. I think Scandinavia and Germany has more Zeiss, but all in all, A LOT of people over here have alpha bins. The lower end bins here are Bynolyt, some kind of OEM that other companies are branding differently, and those are good value for money.

@ ronh: I also think that there is a lot of negative stories here about alpha bins and quality issues, but for me, it helped a lot. Before reading all of this stories, I would never have argued with the online seller about the quality of this very binocular I was buying, I just suspected that one was as good as the others. Fortunately, I had a passionate seller that convinced me about the sharpness, smooth focus of this very example and other stuff related to quality that can vary. It just makes people make better choices (like for the women ;-)
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 17:50   #8
Kevin Purcell
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+1 for Ronh's comments. One always has to weight the appearance of defects in internet forums with all the people not complaining.

One general thing (based more on reading the forum than practical experience) is the Customer Service experience of the Euro 3 or "Axis" 4 has improved a lot over the past few years.

Quote:
Originally Posted by temmie View Post
And @ Bruleke, I have to say that allmost all dutch and english birders I meet are carrying a Swarovski EL. I allmost see no Zeiss. Belgians are more Leica orientated. Few Zeiss. I think Scandinavia and Germany has more Zeiss, but all in all, A LOT of people over here have alpha bins. The lower end bins here are Bynolyt, some kind of OEM that other companies are branding differently, and those are good value for money.
I think this is true too around Seattle too.

Perhaps the order is: Swaro EL, Leica, I seem to see more Zeiss 10x40B than the original Victory 8x40 or Zeiss FL in the field. Only ever seen one (very well used!) Nikon SE 8x32 in the wild!

I think part of this is historical. A lot of older/retired people with ELs (some not so good birders!) and suspect this was a "I'm retired so now I get my one last good pair of bins". And if they retired in the last few years I can see that being a Swaro EL especially if they are well off: "What's the best bins".

Zeiss had a serious mistep with the "original" 40mm Victory which rather less them the top position.

There are a number of Leica users out there (even one very old couple I bump into all the time with the guy using a Leica Ultravid and the wife using an EL) but fewer than Swaro.

The other observation (not of an alpha) but I see a lot of serious birders (twitchers) still using Nikon Monarch.

Last edited by Kevin Purcell : Tuesday 25th August 2009 at 18:00.
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 21:53   #9
Sancho
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mooreorless View Post
"Not buying an alpha because you fear a defect is like not fooling around with girls because you fear getting your heart broken."

I like this one Ron.

Regards,Steve
Me too. And those girls broke my heart far more than binoculars ever did. Perhaps if I´d paid them as much attention as I do my binoculars, things would have been different.....

FWIW, Swarovski. Owned a few, if you´re not happy they´ll remedy the situation. Which is more than I can say for the girls. Who will all simply tell you it´s all your fault!
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 22:12   #10
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kevin Purcell View Post
The other observation (not of an alpha) but I see a lot of serious birders (twitchers) still using Nikon Monarch.
This suprises me, the depth of field is extremly low and it annoys me a lot.
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 22:44   #11
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For what it is worth I think 308's original conclusion, based on reading the internet complaints solely is fairly accurate. My personal experience mirrors it somewhat....

10 Zeiss FLs (2 had mechanical/quality control issues specifically related to the focuser/diopter)
3 Leica Trinovids (1 had an issue with the diopter)
4 Swarovski SLC/ELs (didn't have any problems with that small sample)

Still that information does not really affect my choice in buying any of them. I would still go predominantly on image quality and customer service.
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 22:51   #12
Kevin Purcell
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Sancho View Post
FWIW, Swarovski. Owned a few, if you´re not happy they´ll remedy the situation. Which is more than I can say for the girls. Who will all simply tell you it´s all your fault!
Wasn't that what it was like before no-fault warranties?
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Old Tuesday 25th August 2009, 23:20   #13
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"10 Zeiss FLs (2 had mechanical/quality control issues specifically related to the focuser/diopter)"

Frank you seem like a very Zeiss kind of guy.

"4 Swarovski SLC/ELs (didn't have any problems with that small sample)"

There I rest my case for Swarovski.:


Regardsmoreorless, Steve

Last edited by mooreorless : Tuesday 25th August 2009 at 23:38.
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Old Wednesday 26th August 2009, 01:13   #14
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Yeah well...then why didn't I own more of them?

:p
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