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ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Review of 8x25 Victory Pocket (3 Viewers)

eronald said:
Contrast no, sharpness yes. The whole thing is finicky, very sensitive to eye placement and supersensitive to focus and diopter. One needs at least a minute to dial it in to optimum, where a bigger binocular is *bang* there. Once you have it dialed in exactly it will show you extreme detail. I have had no blackouts, but inter-ocular distance is one of the things one needs to dial in every time. precisely. And the diopter moves between uses.

Once it is dialed in, the sharpness is incredible on my sample; it allowed me to observe airplanes taxying 20 miles away, which mynLeica UV 7x42 couldn’t resolve, in bad light. I thought it would be game over for the Zeiss, it was game over for the Leica.

I think Zeiss should make a 28, and get a bit more contrast and above all user tolerances for eye placement for an instrument that is already best of class and has found a market.

Edmund
Click to expand...
"I think Zeiss should make a 28, and get a bit more contrast and above all user tolerances for eye placement for an instrument that is already best of class and has found a market."

Zeiss should make an 8x30 and a 10x30 Victory like the Swarovski 8x30 and 10x30 CL. I think the 30mm format is the new 32mm and will become the most popular birding format. Nice and light and compact but big enough for birding.
 
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tenex said:
Short answer: no, I had no trouble with blackouts when trying out the 8x32 VP, the view was surprisingly easy and beautiful. But for some including me, the challenge without glasses is eyecups too shallow for the long eye relief. I had to hold it without the cups touching my face at all, which is too awkward. (Without this problem, I would surely have had the one described by Lee.) The VP is wonderful but eyeglass wearers are happiest with it. I think that's true of 25mm optics in general.
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I had the same problem with the Zeiss SF 8x25 having too much eye relief for the length of the eye cup's as I do not wear glasses. The Swarovski CL pocket 8x25 and 10x25 are much better in this regard and work much better allowing me to actually rest my eyes against the eye cup's without getting blackout's. Although the Swarovski CL pocket has a smaller FOV I prefer it because it has sharper edges and less distortion so the actual usable FOV is equal to the Zeiss 8x25 Victory. I feel the Swarovski has much higher build quality also.
 
I am very prone to the black out effect, I do not wear glasses, and if the zeiss victory pocket has this effect I would reject it, I would prefer another alpha pocket without a black out problem...
 
[email protected] said:
Although the Swarovski CL pocket has a smaller FOV I prefer it because it has sharper edges and less distortion so the actual usable FOV is equal to the Zeiss 8x25 Victory.
Click to expand...

This might be true as far as overall 'use' under perfect conditions....as in 'in theory' but perhaps not reality and in the field birding. Let me explain this.

First...if you keep your binoculars centered and in-focus to the initial object centered in your bins, you would have to force your eyes to the 'side/edges'. That is not normal as most people simply shift the bins over to the right or left and refocus accordingly. So complete sharpness to the edges loses a bit of value as a 'pro' benefit, although it sounds great.

Second... It would also imply that what you are looking at is at the same distance, otherwise objects would not be in-focus. Take example a tree limb and a bird sitting on the limb. The bird is in-focus centered in your binocular, but if branches to either 'far edge' side or behind the bird are not the same distance from me /bins, they would not be in-focus. Right?

So the benefit of the any bin having sharp / in-focus all the way to the edges, is immaterial other than in clinical situations where a large piece of graph paper is placed on a flat surface and you are attempting to see sharpness to the edges.

My point is that 'actual usable FOV" is in that 'center sweet spot' while the edges are not as practical to use.
 
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pluton said:
I am very prone to the black out effect, I do not wear glasses, and if the zeiss victory pocket has this effect I would reject it, I would prefer another alpha pocket without a black out problem...
Click to expand...

I can confirm the black out effects (I don’t wear glasses). But once you know where to place them, it usually is no problem anymore. Got them a couple of days ago and had the chance to already use them in various conditions/moments. They perform extremely well - I am super happy and as stated: the black out already doesn’t bother me anymore. The light weight and easy one-hand use is superb, combined with the great optics performance. Yes, its not an edge-to-edge sharpness, but again: I usually have my object of interest in the middle, so for the price-level (although for this format top end) I think its really great.

The only thing which really didn’t live up to the Zeiss label was the strap which already “broke” on one side when I wanted to setup it the first time. But that was stated here before and I don’t want to use it anyways (was just trying out of curiousity).

So bottom line: great bino for a quick view, for travel and hiking. With such an easy handling, its certainly a great companion to a full size format.
 
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eronald said:
I think Zeiss should make a 28, and get a bit more contrast and above all user tolerances for eye placement for an instrument that is already best of class and has found a market.

Edmund
Click to expand...

A nice7x28 version would be my suggestion. A 4mm exit pupil would help with eye placement.

I’ve only ever seen 7x28s with IF which is not much use for birding.
 
eronald said:
This fiddly little thing has become everyday carry (EDC) with me - I just dump it caseless into my painting bag as accessibility is THE important feature of a binocular for me.

Con: Tiring to use after more than a few seconds.
Edmund
Click to expand...

Edmund, what do *you* mean by "tiring to use after more than a few seconds?" I'm very interested in this binocular (after reading some 400 posts!), and you're the biggest complainer (though very entertaining). ;)

(Re: your post #370)

Howard
 
I have tried the Zeiss 8x25....sure, it 'is' what they say. But I feel if I had a need for a 'light travel about or hiking bin', i would pick up the Pentax Papilio at around $150 US....surprisingly it has pretty good optics and better close focus for sure and the Zeiss seems fragile(?)....
 
Howard220 said:
Edmund, what do *you* mean by "tiring to use after more than a few seconds?" I'm very interested in this binocular (after reading some 400 posts!), and you're the biggest complainer (though very entertaining). ;)

(Re: your post #370)

Howard
Click to expand...

Howard,


In the case of the 8x25 I’m the biggest complainer because I like finding fault, not because of any issues with the instrument.

There could be some minor improvements, sure (a nicer diopter adjust as pioneered by Leica, longer eyecups, maybe some ocular covers, nicer strap, case etc) but as far as I can see any issues with the view are limitations of the 8x25 format itself and the 3mm exit pupil that this format implies.

If you want something that goes in your bag and that shows you what’s there, the 8x25 is the best purchase you can make. It is small, light, solidly built, sharp, and quite remarkably glare free when observing against the sky. I am sure the optics could be even better, but for now they are best in class. You need a quick look for detail, the Pocket is ideal.

However, if you want something you can use to keep looking at a scene, eg follow birds for more than a few minutes at a time with the binoculars glued to your eye, or for sustained use in bad light, do yourself a favor, understand that this format has limitations, not the binocular itself, and immediately move up to something with a larger exit pupil. My finding is that this binocular is tiring after a few seconds, maybe a minute. Your opinion may be different - do a test yourself. I use the Zeiss every day, my opinion is not based on a short tryout.

I have a Leica Ultravid UV HD 7x42 which I find too heavy to cart around. It’s not as sharp as the Zeiss, but I can use it for long periods.

To sum it up, I think the 8x25 is the best 8x25 one can get, but living with an 8x25 as only available instrument is painful. Maybe I'm wrong and someone will make a user friendly 25 by some magic optic trick. I've had a bunch of these small bins over the past 40 years or so, starting with a Leica 8x20 I bought in New York around 1981, another Leica and a Swaro, and the Pocket outclasses its predecessors by a large margin.

Edmund
 
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Edmund, thank you. All that is helpful. I very much enjoy using my Monarch 7 8x30, and even my Pentax Porro 8x30's. (I have three of the Pentaxes!) Both are just 16 oz. But I have nothing compact enough to carry with me on a casual non-birding walk that will, say, fit in a coat pocket, or one I can take with me when out photographing and will fit in my camera bag. I had a Nikon Sportstar 8x25. Optically it was pretty soft, and had the eye relief of a blade of grass. I tried the Zeiss Terra 8x25 a year or so ago, and I didn't like it at all. The view was not good, I recall, unable to get any good clarity for reasons I now forget. I'd read back then about the Victory Pocket, and no way was I going to spend that much money on a binocular, but I now decided that, if it is as good as everyone says, I should be happy with it to take along, as I have nothing in that size. Thank you again.

Howard
 
Howard220 said:
Edmund, thank you. All that is helpful. I very much enjoy using my Monarch 7 8x30, and even my Pentax Porro 8x30's. (I have three of the Pentaxes!) Both are just 16 oz. But I have nothing compact enough to carry with me on a casual non-birding walk that will, say, fit in a coat pocket, or one I can take with me when out photographing and will fit in my camera bag. I had a Nikon Sportstar 8x25. Optically it was pretty soft, and had the eye relief of a blade of grass. I tried the Zeiss Terra 8x25 a year or so ago, and I didn't like it at all. The view was not good, I recall, unable to get any good clarity for reasons I now forget. I'd read back then about the Victory Pocket, and no way was I going to spend that much money on a binocular, but I now decided that, if it is as good as everyone says, I should be happy with it to take along, as I have nothing in that size. Thank you again.

Howard
Click to expand...
Howard,

I wish you the best of enjoyment of the Pocket which is an ideal walkaround companion! BTW, I tried two samples one was quite ok but nothing special, the one I own I bought after one look through it.

Edmund
 
I have owned the 8x25 for about 2 years, my only reservation is that the focus wheel is a bit stiff, in particular when turning right, as if they had different resistance if you turn it left or right. Not sure if that is normal.
 
I just figured out that I can actually hold the instrument better with the left hand and sketch with the right. I would never have found the left hand grip if I hadn't tried sketching. Interestingly, shake isn't an issue.

This whole design is still in the early days I think; eventually it will get improved and the somewhat iffy ergos will catch up completely with the really excellent optics :)

In the mean time, maybe Zeiss could offer some slightly longer eyecups? I'd pay!

If someone asked me nicely, I would send a detailed list of minor issues that could be improved - making a virtue out of my faults as a fault-finder :)

Here are my topics:
Eyecups
IPD
Diopter
Strap fixation
Grip
Case



Edmund
 
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Well, I am sure you have all been waiting with bated (yes, bated, not baited) breath as to my status with these binoculars. I've had them for more than a week now, and I'm more than happy with them. My other "best" pair are Monarch 7 8x30's, which I've regarded as "pretty good." The Victory Pockets are more contrasty, have little to no veiling glare, have little to no chromatic "abhorration," as I like to call it, and the sweet spot is a lot larger, even taking its smaller FOV into consideration. They are surprisingly easy to put my eyes up to and get a nice view right away; minimal fiddling. Yes, I have to rest the tops of the extended eyecups right onto the tops of my eye sockets when I'm wearing my contacts. With glasses, yes, much easier. Per someone's suggestion here, I bought winged eye shields from Field Optics Research. I bought the compact ones, and they were a bear to stretch around the eyecups and get them properly positioned. But they work great. I have the bands raised up just a bit above the edges of the eyecups to effectively "extend" the eyecups, and that sure does help.

I have no issue with the strap. The case, yes, not the strap. For a case, I used my Monarch 7 case, as it has small openings along the top sides that allow the binocular strap to be used outside the case, acting as a handle. I'm sure there is an even better solution. With the winged eye shields installed, I cannot fold the bins into my old Nikon Sportstar case, and I really prefer not to fold them at all except when in the car's center console or glove box.

Star and planet and lunar images are good -- nice and clean. I could tell the maria on the Moon were a little more than subtly darker in the Zeiss than in the Monarchs. Looking up into a top-backlit tree in my yard revealed no veiling glare, just detail in the darkness of the tree. The Monarchs showed veiling glare and, thus, a lot less contrast. Nice!

The clincher was getting to take them with me on a walk in a nearby nature preserve of open meadows and woods with sun coming in from above the trees. They were a delight to use, so easy to bring them up to my eyes and see the subject right away, including a, um, Monarch butterfly some 20 feet away. Focusing is fast, and mine have neither backlash nor any rough spots. The image pretty well snaps into focus.. The wheel's tension is "perfect" to me, though not as "amazing" as my 1980's Swift Audubon 804R's. That focusing wheel is in a class by itself.

So for all of you who've provided so much great information, thank you! I never thought I'd spend this much money on binoculars, especially for a compact, but I did it. B&H photo sells them for $820, but were/are on a promotion with $70 off that price. You have to phone them to get that price.
 
Yet another happy Pocket user on Birdforum. There goes the neighborhood.
3:)

Edmund

Howard220 said:
Well, I am sure you have all been waiting with bated (yes, bated, not baited) breath as to my status with these binoculars. I've had them for more than a week now, and I'm more than happy with them. My other "best" pair are Monarch 7 8x30's, which I've regarded as "pretty good." The Victory Pockets are more contrasty, have little to no veiling glare, have little to no chromatic "abhorration," as I like to call it, and the sweet spot is a lot larger, even taking its smaller FOV into consideration. They are surprisingly easy to put my eyes up to and get a nice view right away; minimal fiddling. Yes, I have to rest the tops of the extended eyecups right onto the tops of my eye sockets when I'm wearing my contacts. With glasses, yes, much easier. Per someone's suggestion here, I bought winged eye shields from Field Optics Research. I bought the compact ones, and they were a bear to stretch around the eyecups and get them properly positioned. But they work great. I have the bands raised up just a bit above the edges of the eyecups to effectively "extend" the eyecups, and that sure does help.

I have no issue with the strap. The case, yes, not the strap. For a case, I used my Monarch 7 case, as it has small openings along the top sides that allow the binocular strap to be used outside the case, acting as a handle. I'm sure there is an even better solution. With the winged eye shields installed, I cannot fold the bins into my old Nikon Sportstar case, and I really prefer not to fold them at all except when in the car's center console or glove box.

Star and planet and lunar images are good -- nice and clean. I could tell the maria on the Moon were a little more than subtly darker in the Zeiss than in the Monarchs. Looking up into a top-backlit tree in my yard revealed no veiling glare, just detail in the darkness of the tree. The Monarchs showed veiling glare and, thus, a lot less contrast. Nice!

The clincher was getting to take them with me on a walk in a nearby nature preserve of open meadows and woods with sun coming in from above the trees. They were a delight to use, so easy to bring them up to my eyes and see the subject right away, including a, um, Monarch butterfly some 20 feet away. Focusing is fast, and mine have neither backlash nor any rough spots. The image pretty well snaps into focus.. The wheel's tension is "perfect" to me, though not as "amazing" as my 1980's Swift Audubon 804R's. That focusing wheel is in a class by itself.

So for all of you who've provided so much great information, thank you! I never thought I'd spend this much money on binoculars, especially for a compact, but I did it. B&H photo sells them for $820, but were/are on a promotion with $70 off that price. You have to phone them to get that price.
Click to expand...
 
Gzoladz74 said:
I have owned the 8x25 for about 2 years, my only reservation is that the focus wheel is a bit stiff, in particular when turning right, as if they had different resistance if you turn it left or right. Not sure if that is normal.
Click to expand...

I had the binocs checked at the shop and they confirmed that the focus does not feel right (stiff, jumpy and with too much resistance when rotating it to one side) so they went back to Zeiss.

They are less than 3 years old so they should get fixed under warranty. I will miss them for a few weeks (hopefully not too many), but it was getting irritation and I think I should have done it sooner.
 
I got new 8x25 this week and optically very impressive in terms of its size with large FOV; Also I find a suitable quick release strap in camera store to fit very small hole, see pic.
 

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