eitanaltman
Well-known member
A single company can make..... wait for it..... different products :eek!:
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Mmmm... my next pair... (1 Viewer)
- Thread starter Rob from Texas
- Start date
Toric is Japanese, Viper HD the past several years is Chinese.
eitanaltman
Well-known member
^^^ to be clear though we are talking about the older MIJ Viper HD.
normjackson
Well-known member
Those comments maybe point towards use of a scope, optics mounted on a support or perhaps an image stabilised binocular? Here's a thread (which would probably be a candidate for a "Best of" Birdforum optics threads collection) about the differences support and IS can make at 10x magnification :
https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=297776
Should add that based on what I've read here and elsewhere, I wouldn't be recommending a Canon IS binocular to anyone I wished to keep as a friend in case things went wrong...
Rob from Texas
Well-known member
Norm: Thank you for the testing link. I read the whole thread.
The tidbits I extracted were that;
1) Tripods certainly help a lot... and
2) It seems to come down to favorable units that win the day.
BTW, I've always suspected that same-model units vary a bit.
I've been on both ends of that.
I have cheaper binoculars that beat the pants off others that I may have spent more money on.
I wonder if trading out the actual unit might change that, but its all "water under the bridge" at that point.
More and more I'm learning that only I can judge a pair for my eyes and needs. It's obvious that in some pairs, I'm paying for qualities in certain areas that are quite ancillary to my needs and in other cheaper pairs, I find that their hail-merry, saving-grace, prism and coatings (in ideal viewing condition), are what becomes most apparent and useful to me.
I like high quality as well as the next guy. I just don't want to look at my next pair and think "Damn, that's a fine, ultra-quality tool that I own there....too bad I don't like the view".
I sense each of us have been there before. Thus we continue on...
The inverse may be worse though, as a bargain somehow really does turn out as an absolute bargain.
Thus the next trap is set.
I prescribe to the theory that the most recommended binocular may or may hit home with me, but it's a damn good place to start. Keep 'em coming guys, I do read this stuff.
Rob
The tidbits I extracted were that;
1) Tripods certainly help a lot... and
2) It seems to come down to favorable units that win the day.
BTW, I've always suspected that same-model units vary a bit.
I've been on both ends of that.
I have cheaper binoculars that beat the pants off others that I may have spent more money on.
I wonder if trading out the actual unit might change that, but its all "water under the bridge" at that point.
More and more I'm learning that only I can judge a pair for my eyes and needs. It's obvious that in some pairs, I'm paying for qualities in certain areas that are quite ancillary to my needs and in other cheaper pairs, I find that their hail-merry, saving-grace, prism and coatings (in ideal viewing condition), are what becomes most apparent and useful to me.
I like high quality as well as the next guy. I just don't want to look at my next pair and think "Damn, that's a fine, ultra-quality tool that I own there....too bad I don't like the view".
I sense each of us have been there before. Thus we continue on...
The inverse may be worse though, as a bargain somehow really does turn out as an absolute bargain.
Thus the next trap is set.
I prescribe to the theory that the most recommended binocular may or may hit home with me, but it's a damn good place to start. Keep 'em coming guys, I do read this stuff.
Rob
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pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I've not used the two bins in question but have experience with a few of the "clones" or "sisters" of the Maven B3, and they're all really solid bins at solid prices. I have the M7 8x30 but also the MHG 8x30, which is of course a step up in price.
I find the Monarch HG 8x30 the best 8x30 I've tried, and it's one of my two favorite and most used bins. Of course the CL is also excellent. Just depends on personal preference and how you get on with the two. I only mention this, despite not being one of your initial suggestions, as I recently saw that B&H has refurb MHG 8x30's for $650, which is a good price if everything checks out.
I am not aware of any comparison, anywhere, of the various compact 8x30's, beyond some anecdotal comparisons of one or the other to the M7, and of comparisons between the MHG and the CL. It'd be awesome to see a proper evaluation of the Nikon M7 & MHG, Maven B3, Kite Lynx, Opticron Traveller BGA, and Swaro CL.
I find the Monarch HG 8x30 the best 8x30 I've tried, and it's one of my two favorite and most used bins. Of course the CL is also excellent. Just depends on personal preference and how you get on with the two. I only mention this, despite not being one of your initial suggestions, as I recently saw that B&H has refurb MHG 8x30's for $650, which is a good price if everything checks out.
I am not aware of any comparison, anywhere, of the various compact 8x30's, beyond some anecdotal comparisons of one or the other to the M7, and of comparisons between the MHG and the CL. It'd be awesome to see a proper evaluation of the Nikon M7 & MHG, Maven B3, Kite Lynx, Opticron Traveller BGA, and Swaro CL.
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Fascinating....as I have been debating this issue for the past two months (8x32 or x 30)...and have ordered pairs in, used or refurbished or new or demo's.... which include the Maven's, GPO's Kowa's, Meostars, CL, HG's, Trinovids, Conquests, Hawkes, .... and I have arrived at the conclusion that the HG is my 3rd, the CL's my 4th...while the Meostars are my Second and the Trinovids are my first. Of course, my desires / characteristics I am sure differ from yours, as do our eyes. Actually I have a used pair of Ultravid from B and H that is in debate for the top spot with the Trinovid. One I will keep with the Meostar.
While I loved the HG....in almost all ways..... I am a bit suspicious of Nikon, if that makes sense. And the CL had such a terrible min focus distance that I had to toss that one for I bird and nature walk at the same time, and the money additional for the CL wasn't worth it.
Again, each to our own. Now, the Trinovid or the Ultravid?
Not a bad problem to have. jimeitanaltman
Well-known member
Wait when did the Trinovid claim your top spot?? I thought you had ruled them out due to the size/weight and insufficient FOV?
Rob from Texas
Well-known member
MMM... Interesting proposal...a refurbished HG from B&H. Anyone have any experience with that purchase?
Rob,
Yes, over the last 5 or 6 years I've ordered several "used / refurbished / open box / demo" models from B&H and always been very impressed. IME the pricing is not significantly lower, usually @ $100 - $200 less on alphas, but even the used un- refurbished bins have been indistinguishable from new. And B&H has a very good return policy.
Mike
Ah...right....but 'within' by matrix creation of not only stats but field birding, I decided to give the Leica's a try even though I had ruled them out. I found a used Ultravid and a Trinovid at B& H and decided, what the heck..... I really enjoyed the view but was not pleased with the bulk of the Trinovid but that 3' close focus is 'wow!"... Ultravid is super .... So there I am.
I've proved to myself over and over...while the stat sheet DOES matter...it's not the whole story. Weight, FOV, size, close focus all can each move up AND down on ones list of "priorities." One binocular just basically doesn't do it ALL although some come close. For me it takes some time in the field to determine what's really important AND what a binoculars true strong and weak points really are.
pbjosh
missing the neotropics
I couldn't agree more. A brief comparison / evaluation is of course still useful, but I find that I take a month or many months to come to a really solid opinion of a pair of bins. I've returned one pair of bins fairly quickly (within a week) for a clear optical fault, but otherwise have kept bins a long time. My opinions of all bins have slowly changed over time and then generally settled in after a few months.
In the last year or two, my initial opinions of two bins - the MHG 8x30 and the Kowa BDII 6,5x32 - were fairly similar. Both are very nice, hard to critically fault for their price, no obvious red flags, ergonomically just fine, nice and compact and light. But as time goes on one became one of my two favorite and most used bins (the MHG), and the other languishes (the Kowa). I bought the MHG in order to be a pocket / around town / casual bin but find myself using it a lot more than I ever imagined as it gives up almost nothing to my alphas in terms of ID'ing most birds in most situations, it's fantastically light weight, and I get on with it exceptionally well. The Kowa is fine, is a good bin at a good value, and I will keep it as I don't have any other low magnification bins and that is why I bought it. But I don't love it, and I don't think it'll get a lot of use outside of the specific reasons I bought it.
eitanaltman
Well-known member
Interesting, I'm surprised you didn't update your "Quest for the perfect 8x32" thread considering you are declaring a new #1 favorite!
I would love to hear more about your extended thoughts on the Trinovids, but probably better suited to your other thread
Interesting, I'm surprised you didn't update your "Quest for the perfect 8x32" thread considering you are declaring a new #1 favorite!
I would love to hear more about your extended thoughts on the Trinovids, but probably better suited to your other thread
I never said it was over 'yet'.... I will update when I do.
I think I am just going to have pick one out of a hat and be done with it and happy. I started my quest not wanting an alpha so technically the Ultravid shouldn't be in the running but I have a '10' used binocular from B & H which was 25% off, making me rethink. Otherwise the Trinovid would be my decision.
For these longer distances, why not try Canon IS binoculars? They might be a much more significant step up in terms of discernible detail.
