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Zen Ray Astro Adapter ??? (1 Viewer)

G

gcole

Well-known member
United States
This is a question for those of you who have the Zen Ray ED2 spotting scope & have had the chance to try out the Zen adapter which will allow the use of other 1-1/4" eyepieces ....... I was wondering what eyepieces you have tried that will work on the Zen Spotter using the adapter ?? .... gwen
 
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Gwen,

I will have to check when I get home later. There is a very limited number of eyepieces, that I have tried, which work with the astro adapter. The reason is fairly simple. The adapter is basically a bayonet mount with pre-tapped threads on the inside of it. If the astro eyepiece has a 1.25 inch collar which can be removed to expose male threads (and assuming there isn't an optical element inside the 1.25 inch collar) then it will work with the adapter. If the collar does have an optical element inside of it or if it has "female" threads inside the eyepiece itself then it will not work with the ZR astro adapter.

So, from my experience, you can pretty much rule out many of the wide angle eyepieces currently on the market for either of those two reasons. I have spoken to Charles about the issue and he has assured me that their engineers are looking to modify it to be more general in its acceptance of 1.25 inch astro eyepieces. The project was put a bit on the backburner though as they focused on the release of several new binocular models.
 
FrankD said:
Gwen,

I will have to check when I get home later. There is a very limited number of eyepieces, that I have tried, which work with the astro adapter. The reason is fairly simple. The adapter is basically a bayonet mount with pre-tapped threads on the inside of it. If the astro eyepiece has a 1.25 inch collar which can be removed to expose male threads (and assuming there isn't an optical element inside the 1.25 inch collar) then it will work with the adapter. If the collar does have an optical element inside of it or if it has "female" threads inside the eyepiece itself then it will not work with the ZR astro adapter.

So, from my experience, you can pretty much rule out many of the wide angle eyepieces currently on the market for either of those two reasons. I have spoken to Charles about the issue and he has assured me that their engineers are looking to modify it to be more general in its acceptance of 1.25 inch astro eyepieces. The project was put a bit on the backburner though as they focused on the release of several new binocular models.
Click to expand...

Frank, Thanks for the reply ... gwen
 
The Adapter is nothing but the mount that comes with the Zen ED82 30X eyepiece..is not a 1 1/4 adapter,but as Frank explained ,a bayonet with some specific threads on it. I am sure some eyepieces would fit,..famous GSO superwide 20mm and 14mm,Those You could remove the barrels,no elements inside the tube,I think they would work..,,The Vixen ZOOM can also have the barrel removed ,im pretty sure...
What I did is change the pitch of my adapter to take Nikon eyepieces and used the nikon 38X WA with excellent results...I just sold the eyepiece and got the New Swarovski 30X SW ,to give a try,and maybe look for Nikon Zoom to take advantage of the 22X-66X that this zoom would grant...a nice advantage of 6X over the Zen zoom,That by the way I havent used that Much
I think a 1 1/4 regular adapter can be made for the ZEN,but there is not much room to fit the barrel inside the bayonet inner diameter,If any..it would be a tight fit..
The bayonet assembly in the ZEN ,though,could be easilly changed and is only attached in place,in its watertight socket ,by a retainer ring..Modifying this socket the manufacturer could create a scope that can have the whole bayonet removed and changed for an accessory 1 1/4 compression mount..This way the scope can be transformed to a 1 1/4 making it more appealing to Astronomy Eyepieces owners...
I particulary prefer Swarovsky eyepieces(but wouldnt mind the accessory Kowa bayonet either!!!!!)
 
mayoayo said:
The Adapter is nothing but the mount that comes with the Zen ED82 30X eyepiece..is not a 1 1/4 adapter,but as Frank explained ,a bayonet with some specific threads on it. I am sure some eyepieces would fit,..famous GSO superwide 20mm and 14mm,Those You could remove the barrels,no elements inside the tube,I think they would work..,,The Vixen ZOOM can also have the barrel removed ,im pretty sure...
What I did is change the pitch of my adapter to take Nikon eyepieces and used the nikon 38X WA with excellent results...I just sold the eyepiece and got the New Swarovski 30X SW ,to give a try,and maybe look for Nikon Zoom to take advantage of the 22X-66X that this zoom would grant...a nice advantage of 6X over the Zen zoom,That by the way I havent used that Much
I think a 1 1/4 regular adapter can be made for the ZEN,but there is not much room to fit the barrel inside the bayonet inner diameter,If any..it would be a tight fit..
The bayonet assembly in the ZEN ,though,could be easilly changed and is only attached in place,in its watertight socket ,by a retainer ring..Modifying this socket the manufacturer could create a scope that can have the whole bayonet removed and changed for an accessory 1 1/4 compression mount..This way the scope can be transformed to a 1 1/4 making it more appealing to Astronomy Eyepieces owners...
I particulary prefer Swarovsky eyepieces(but wouldnt mind the accessory Kowa bayonet either!!!!!)
Click to expand...



Mayoayo ... Thanks for all that detailed info. Now I have a decision to make. I ordered the Zen ED2 scope a few days ago with the 25x50 zoom, but now Iam having second thoughts. I was never a big zoom fan & was hoping the Zens adapter would open a wider range of eyepieces which could be used & I would just sell the zoom if I did not like it. I ordered a Kowa 773 on sale for about $400 more(body only), I already have some eyepieces for the Kowa. I have tried the Kowa 773 & really liked it. I called Zen Ray today, they have the scopes but are waiting for a shippment of eyepieces which are not expected til next week. Iam wondering now ....keep the Zen ED2 82 on order or for $400 more the Kowa 773(body) & cancel my Zen order before its shipped. I dont mind having to scopes on my credit card, but it would be alot less trouble for Zen Ray if I cancelled now before its shipped then wait til it arrives & choose the Kowa over the Zen...gwen
 
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After reading Henry's thrashing of the ZR scope and and their latest ED3 bin I am amazed folks still order them!

Anyway, have both a Kowa 774 and several samples of the 884/883 and have done extensive testing. The 774 is optically excellent and is the visual equal of the 88x.
 
RJM said:
After reading Henry's thrashing of the ZR scope and and their latest ED3 bin I am amazed folks still order them!

Anyway, have both a Kowa 774 and several samples of the 884/883 and have done extensive testing. The 774 is optically excellent and is the visual equal of the 88x.
Click to expand...

Hi RJM ... I agree Kowa does produce excellent scopes & Iam sure I will love the 773 when it arives, but I have also found Zen-Ray products to be top-shelf both in quality & price value. Like many others I dont have access to try out all of the optics I think I would like to own. This is why I ordered the Zen ED2 82 scope, so I could see for myself if the quality to price value would be equal to their binocular line. I just got a E-mail from Zen-Ray saying they are getting ready to ship, so I will hold off my decision on which scope to keep until I have seen both the Kowa & Zen-Ray side by side. I too have read Henry's review, but also Frank's which was more on the positive side. If the Zen-Rays ED2 scope with the 25-50 zoom equals their binocular line in performance, I will end up owning two scopes. .....gwen
 
I dont Think Henry trashed the Scope..He was quite impressed with the quality of the zoom,and he compared the performance of the scope with any average sample of the top performers in the market,particularly to the Swaro HD,..so not a bad tie...
Look also at some of the images posted by Rui Caratao,in the ZEN ED82 thread,digiscoped at 180X for instance, Those images really show some potential
The scope is sharp and extremely bright,controls CA well,and is well made...so its reputation shouldnt be trashed,It really wouldnt be fair ..Cmon Now,FrankD owns One!..that must mean Something!!!!

Of course ,the eyepiece selection is a point to consider when choosing Your Scope ,and in that regard the ZEN is very well backed up with the use of the Swaro bayonet...
I now use the current Swarovski 30X SW with the ZEN ED82(see picture) and I put the scope side by side with any scope in the market at that power.
The sharpness ,DOF,Giant FOV,and Hallucinogenic edge performance of this combo (flaaaaaat field),dont really keep me thinking about other choices in eyepieces really...

I have used the Zoom in the field,at 60X with excellent results,..and even boosted the 30X image with my 8x binos getting perfectly usable images,for very long range ID purposes...
 

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FWIW, I thought my review was more descriptive rather than negative. I tried to keep my thumb horizontal and let the chips fall where they would. Some people probably felt encouraged to buy the scope, others not.

As for the adapter, I would add that just because a 1.25" eyepiece has male threads on the eyepiece housing doesn't mean it will fit. There is no standard thread between eyepiece housings and barrels.


Edit: I just noticed the post above mine. It's true, I did praise the the performance of the zoom eyepiece, but, it should be noted that's because it's such a faithful knock-off of the Swarovski 20-60x zoom. I did not find the 60x performance of any of the three samples I saw to be "excellent". That's a word I would only use for lower aberration optics. Even at 30x, better optics will be noticed if you compare carefully.

The review is here: http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=202943
 
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henry link said:
I did praise the the performance of the zoom eyepiece, but, it should be noted that's because it's such a faithful knock-off of the Swarovski 20-60x zoom.
Click to expand...

The older Swarovski Zoom also marked the standard for quality at the time,and pretty much inspired the design for many zooms . The Famous Vixen LV ,or TeleVue 8-24 zooms are,or were ,pretty faithful knock-offs ,or so I have read.(the Swaro was 7.1-23mm ,not sure if that 0.9mm difference in focal lenght was the only difference,or if the Vixen rouded the specifications to 8-24 so it wouldnt look the same)..

The question of Gcole was if the scope had some the capability of using some eyepieces ,other than the ZEN zoom . I pointed the use of Swarovski bayonet,and the fully compatibility with Swaro eyepieces as an asset,for If You want wide angle fix power eyepieces they make (some of)the best.

The provided "Astro Adapter" was an idea of ZEN OPTICS to utilize the bayonets that they already had made for their 30X eyepiece,thinking that PERHAPS and for SOME eyepieces could be a solution...It worked pretty well to have it customized to take Nikon Eyepieces ,with "Excellent" results in doing so
 
RJM said:
Anyway, have both a Kowa 774 and several samples of the 884/883 and have done extensive testing. The 774 is optically excellent and is the visual equal of the 88x.
Click to expand...

Perhaps another case of the favourable influence of a slower focal ratio on image quality despite the renunciation of fluorite.

FPL51 or FPL53 - any ideas?

John
 
mayoayo said:
The older Swarovski Zoom also marked the standard for quality at the time,and pretty much inspired the design for many zooms . The Famous Vixen LV ,or TeleVue 8-24 zooms are,or were ,pretty faithful knock-offs ,or so I have read.
Click to expand...

I think you might be thinking of an old Meade zoom, which I've read was actually made by Swarovski and rebranded Meade. It's mentioned near the beginning of this review:

http://astrosurf.com/luxorion/reports-tvzoom.htm

The Vixen/Televue zooms in the review were 7 elements, the Swarovski 8. I made a photo of my old Swarovski zoom (adapted for 1.25" focusers) next to a screen image of the Vixen 8-24mm in the review. You can see there's not much resemblance.

I agree with you and John about the Swarovski 30X W eyepiece. In a class by itself.

That adapter looks just like the one Swarovski used to make. The skeletal bayonet flange allows the central opening to be large enough for 1.25" eyepiece barrels.
 

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John Russell said:
Perhaps another case of the favourable influence of a slower focal ratio on image quality despite the renunciation of fluorite.

FPL51 or FPL53 - any ideas?

John
Click to expand...

John, visually there appears to be no significant differences in practice for birding between the 88x and 77x. So in this regard, 77x seems to be a better optical value than the 88x and its smaler size/lighter weight would make it my scope of choice compared to other 80mm class scopes.

Photographically, the 88x delivers about 1/3 stop faster exposures as expected by its larger aperture. The one 774 sample I'm testing seems to be "easier" to focus by the camera LCD at maximum magnification and its pics exihibit better contrast compared to the three 88x I have now.

As for the source/type of their XD glass, the local Kowa folk here have always been cagey when I asked, probably out of ignorance I suspect. But Kowa has been in the lens optics biz for a long time and also make a range of optical lens products outside of sports optics. Rather than sourcing from Ohara, it is possible they have an inhouse glass melt/lens polisher they source from that is not set up as subsidary like Nikon and Canon have done. Frankly, I could care less as long as the optics deliver. Strange I never see anyone care or ponder about the HD glass Swaro uses. Hmm..?
 
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RJM said:
As for the source/type of their XD glass, the local Kowa folk here have always been cagey when I asked, probably out of ignorance I suspect. But Kowa has been in the lens optics biz for a long time and also make a range of optical lens products outside of sports optics. Rather than sourcing from O'Hara, it is possible they have an inhouse glass melt/lens polisher they source from that is not set up as subsidary like Nikon and Canon have done. Frankly, I could care less as long as the optics deliver. Strange I never see anyone care or ponder about the HD glass Swaro uses. Hmm..?
Click to expand...

Rick,

Perhaps an over-simplification on my part but as the Kowa 883/884 are generally regarded as the bee's knees, one assumes that some of that superiority is down to the fluorite element and that the 773/774 would have to use a glass with an Abbe no. in the 90s to achieve similar performance.

John
 
John --- Some discussion about this specific issue,The type of ED glass used in different scopes,the kowas 77 particularly ,in this thread....http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=207723&highlight=kowa+774+fpl53

About the Swaro SW 30X....It is more impressive even when digiscoping!..
I will go back to the ZEN thread to comment a bit on some of this and post some images..the first tests with this eyepiece seem to be superior to anything I have ever been able to do with the limitations of my camera..

EDIT.
OH Well...Since I am already here,and Im able to edit this,let me post this little picture,..I took this today with the ZEN ,the SW 30X and my old and beaten canon A590IS...It was taken at 15 feet,camera zoomed 3/4 ,and this is a detail at actual size.The lines are mm. and the print is the smallest I was able to find in my kitchen...I always go in the kitchen when I need small print..
It is a round baking soda container with a measuring tape wrapped around,as a reference

I dont know if is very meaninful,but I thought the combo catched a fair amount of detail,and could illustrate my point about not really needing to look around for eyepieces and adapters. If You buy the ZEN....Just get this 30X
 

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Though somewhat off topic from the original post of this thread I wanted to ask the folks actively visiting this thread about a comparison between two eyepieces. I just recently picked up the Pentax XW 20 (again) and have the opportunity to pick up the older Swaro Wide Angle 30x eyepiece. How would the two compare optically?
 
Frank,

All the current Swaro ATM and STM scopes have a focal length of 460 mm, so the current 30x W eyepiece would have a focal length of 15,3 mm. I don't know if there have been any significant changes in the design of the 30x eyepieces, but Henry would most probably be able to throw some light on this.

Of course there may be some synergies between scope and eyepiece (field curvature) but Mayoayo's experience with the 30x W on the Zen Ray concurs with mine on the ATM 65HD. There is minimal lateral CA near the edges but, focussing on squared paper, I could detect no field curvature (I have very limited accommodation), no astigmatism, no distortion and no significant colour bias.

Regards,
John
 
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I'm afraid I don't have any experience with the earlier Swarovski 30x. I agree with John that the current one is as close to perfect as an eyepiece gets. In my scopes field curvature and astigmatism are nearly absent. I do see a little rectilinear distortion of the same type as the SV binocular. That is, a little pincushion begins to develop in the interior of the field, but then reverses toward the outside, so that lines near the edge are virtually straight. This results in a little angular magnification distortion near the edge which causes the shapes of objects to compress slightly, but overall the field looks distortion free unless you examine the right kind of target closely. It's easier to see the rectilinear distortion if you sight a grid through the eyepiece backwards.

The Pentax XW eyepieces vary with focal length. The chart below shows the field curvature and astigmatism. I have a 14mm, which has similar characteristics to the 20mm (a little less astigmatism, a little more field curvature). Though not bad, it's obviously inferior to the Swarovski in those areas. It has more pincushion than the Swarovski, but still not enough to completely eliminate angular magnification distortion at the edge. I don't think anyone would find its distortion disturbing.
 

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