Beginner needing advice on settings please ? (1 Viewer)

Geoff Haynes · Mar 2, 2009

Hello, I am just starting out and my kit so far is a Canon 450D, 18-55 lens , 55-250 lens , Tokina AT-X840 AFII 80-400 lens and a Kenko AF 2x Teleplus MC7 DG Converter. Does any one have the Tokina lens ? What settings would i need on the camera , just for good starting out shots ? Would my equiptment be good enough to get some shots like the great ones in the gallery. Please remember i am a beginner and i would be gratefull for any help or advice on the basics please , Many thanks , Geoff.

miketoll · Mar 2, 2009

I am sure people will add much more advise but just for starters central point focussing and make sure you remember the old guidelines about shutter speed and focal length i.e. don't go slower than 1/focal length to eliminate camera shake. So for the Tokina at 400mm allowing for the 'crop' factor no slower than 1/640 sec as a guideline. This often means shooting fairly wide open and with a highish ISO setting but that is better than blur caused by camera shake. For moving subjects use A1 Servo and I mostly leave it on 3fps which is slow enough to only take one shot if you want or several as the case may be. For shots against the sky some exposure compensation may be necessary and/or spot metering. Always carry a spare fully charged battery as it is amazing how many shots you get through. People find their own favourite settings over time and may well be different from mine.

Sandpiper · Mar 2, 2009

Hi Geoff,

Your 450D is certainly capable of producing great pictures. My wife uses one and she is pleased with the results. Assuming you want to photograph birds, your Tokina lens will probably be the best choice as it will give you more reach. I used to own a Tokina 100-400 a few years ago and I obtained some good results with it.

Regarding camera settings, I would suggest the following to get you started:

400 ISO Should allow fast enough shutter speeds except in poor light.

Av mode You set the aperture, the camera selects the corresponding shutter speed.
Set the aperture to the next value up from f/5.6. This will allow a small
increase in depth of field and contrast whilst giving you the fastest
shutter speed possible in the lighting conditions.

AF mode Set to One Shot for stationary subjects, AI for moving subjects.

AF point Set to centre AF focus point.

Metering mode Evaluative is suitable for most subjects, except when back-lit.

White balance Auto

Image quality A personal choice. Large fine JPEG would be your best option for now.

It is possible to use a 2x TC in manual focus mode with this lens but to achieve the sharpest results a monopod or tripod is recommended to avoid camera shake.

Good luck!

Mike

Marcus Conway - ebirder · Mar 2, 2009

Hi Geoff.
You will definitely be able to get results with your set up. I would say that you should spend your first few sessions looking at what happens when you change the apperture and ISO levels with the camera in AV mode. Try on different subjects and look at the results. Once you understand how these three relate to each other you can add some more.

mike from ebbw · Mar 2, 2009

Hi Geoff.
I can certainly vouch for the 450d,been using one for a few months now.I have no experience with Tokina lenses though,sorry.
When shooting birds I always use AV (Aperture Priority) at f7.1 or f8 if possible,iso 400 or 200 if its really sunny.Unless you have an image stabalised lens try to use some sort of support whether it be a tripod,monopod or a beanbag.Even leaning on something like a tree will help to cut out camera shake.
Good luck!

NeilV · Mar 2, 2009

Hi Geoff,
The way I work (rightly or wrongly) is in manual. Set the required aperture (a matter of preference but will often be wide open due to lighting conditions), spot meter on a patch of grass or foliage and dial in the ISO and shutter speed to underexpose by 2/3 of a stop. You can then shoot away merrily in the knowledge that your subject will be correctly exposed unless the lighting changes.
Hope that helps.
Neil

Cristian Mihai · Mar 2, 2009

Once you understand how these three relate to each other you can add some more.

I supopose that the third feature (from Marcus answer) is the shutter speed...
You'll have an equivalent (in 35 mm) of 640 mm with Tokina. So, without a monopod/tripod try to keep it somewhere over 1/320. Better would be over 1/640.
The relation is something like that: For an determined ISO value a larger aperture (F5.6, F7.1) will increase the shutter speed; a smaller value (F8.0, F.9.0 etc) will decrease the shutter speed. In the same conditions (light), with a given aperture, the result of a greater value for the ISO will be a greater shutter speed...

lmans66 · Mar 2, 2009

I own a Tokina lens as you do....much of what has been stated by others is true. I keep it at 400 ISO unless real sunny but I would go to aperture 7.1 or 8. I used 5.6 all the time and found I didn't get that good of results. Since moving to 8 (7.1 is equally fine) for most shots, my photos have improved. Also I found that 400mm is max, try going around 300-350 or there abouts and you get plenty of reach. I use 400 too but not all the time.

Get as close as you can too and use a mono-pod. The lens is fairly light for a zoom 400 but without the mono-pod at high zoom you will get blur.

Shutter get as fast as you can as if with most lens...and birding.

Cristian Mihai · Mar 2, 2009

lmans66 said:
I own a Tokina lens as you do....much of what has been stated by others is true. I keep it at 400 ISO unless real sunny but I would go to aperture 7.1 or 8. I used 5.6 all the time and found I didn't get that good of results. Since moving to 8 (7.1 is equally fine) for most shots, my photos have improved. Also I found that 400mm is max, try going around 300-350 or there abouts and you get plenty of reach. I use 400 too but not all the time.

Get as close as you can too and use a mono-pod. The lens is fairly light for a zoom 400 but without the mono-pod at high zoom you will get blur.

Shutter get as fast as you can as if with most lens...and birding.

You have to know which is the optimum F number for the lens (teoretically at this value you'll have the sharpest image). Probably F/8.0 is around this value for your Tokina. Obviously, you can not use this value in any conditions, but in relative good light you'll have good results. In a very good light is better to keep this value of the aperture and to decrease de ISO. So, you'll have an acceptable value for the shutter speed and pics without noise. In a poor light is better to keep ISO to (maximum) 400 and to open the aperture (F/7.1, F/6.3, F/5.6). So, you'll have a acceptable value for the shutter speed and an acceptable level of noise in your pics. Hope that this will help...

lmans66 · Mar 2, 2009

F number

Cristian Mihai said:
You have to know which is the optimum F number for the lens

In a poor light is better to keep ISO to (maximum) 400 and to open the aperture (F/7.1, F/6.3, F/5.6). So, you'll have a acceptable value for the shutter speed and an acceptable level of noise in your pics. Hope that this will help...

Two good points...I have learned via this forum that depending on lens, you will find the sweet F spot differing....

In terms of ISO ....I do not like to shoot above 400 unless I am playing with a shot of a bird in the trees with the clouds as backgrounds etc... Even then, I just consider that shot an identification shot only and will eventually pick up that bird in a different setting to use if I want a great shot....

postcardcv · Mar 2, 2009

miketoll said:
I am sure people will add much more advise but just for starters central point focussing and make sure you remember the old guidelines about shutter speed and focal length i.e. don't go slower than 1/focal length to eliminate camera shake. So for the Tokina at 400mm allowing for the 'crop' factor no slower than 1/640 sec as a guideline.

While I agree that the theory of 1/focal length is a good one, the crop factor doesn't need to come into it. A 400mm lens will ideally want a 1/400th or faster whether used on a crop or full frame body. You'll be able to get away with much slower shutter speeds if you use it on a decent tripod.

JohnZ · Mar 2, 2009

Many years ago when I used to read "Amateur Photographer" the sweet spot of most lenses was f8 or thereabouts. They used to do tests in AP and the conclusion of most of these tests was f8.

miketoll · Mar 2, 2009

postcardcv said:
While I agree that the theory of 1/focal length is a good one, the crop factor doesn't need to come into it. A 400mm lens will ideally want a 1/400th or faster whether used on a crop or full frame body. You'll be able to get away with much slower shutter speeds if you use it on a decent tripod.

Bit surprised by this as the image is in essence cropped which would show up and exaggerate any blur, or so I would have thought. I stand to be corrected but would love to see an authoritative article on this as my experience does not agree with your thoughts. Any body else? I would love postcardcv to be right! |=)|

postcardcv · Mar 2, 2009

miketoll said:
Bit surprised by this as the image is in essence cropped which would show up and exaggerate any blur, or so I would have thought. I stand to be corrected but would love to see an authoritative article on this as my experience does not agree with your thoughts. Any body else? I would love postcardcv to be right! |=)|

there was a thread about it some time back - http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=50295 though if memory serves it might to make things much clearer

I'll go and re-read it now...

Stephen Fletcher · Mar 2, 2009

tdodd gave a good explanation of why shutter speed should be increased when using a smaller sensor, quoting one of Canons top guys.......................however........................the laws of physics never change. If you have a sensor 2 x 1 inches, and another 1 x .5 inches, sat on top of it, the field of view NEVER changes, but the amount captured on the sensor does, leading to the common misnomer that a smaller sensor increase lens size., it doesnt , it merely captures LESS of what the lens is seeing. So, if the lens moves 5 degrees to the right, EXACTLY the same amount of movement is applied to both sensors.

Geoff Haynes · Mar 3, 2009

Thankyou !!

Thank you all very much , a great deal learnt in a short time thanks to this forum and all you kind members . Please keep anymore info on the 450D or Tokina AT-X840 AF Canon EF lens coming.
I would like to see some images taken with the 450D with settings shown or any images taken with the Tokina lens, Thank you all again , Geoff.

postcardcv · Mar 3, 2009

hopefully I can explain my thinking (it may or maynot be clear what I mean)...

If I take a shot with a 1DsmkII it's full frame at 16.7mp, if I then crop the image to 1.3x then I get left with ~9.8mp (mich is roughly what a 1DmkIII gives) but if cropped to 1.6x I'd be left with ~6.5mp (basically what the old 300D gave). If I took the same shot with the same lens with each of these three bodies then I would need the same shutter speed to eliminate camera shake. The central portion of the three images should be the same, the larger sensors purely record more data around the edges. So by my thinkng crop factor cannot have any effect on the shutter speed you need to eliminate camera shake.

postcardcv · Mar 3, 2009

To answer the original question on camera settings - I agree that AV is a good mode to use, but personally I think that there is a lot to be said for using P too. In P you can set metering mode, white balance, ISO, etc but the camera deals with aperture and shutter speed. I'd recommend letting the camera do some of the work for you while you spend your time learning about light and composition, the camera will get it right the vast majority of the time. I use P as my 'safety' mode, when moving between sites I leave my camera in P so that if I get a chance to grab a quick shot I won't find that I have it set up completely wrong. I'd suggest trying RAW asap, it will be worth it and will save you looking back in eth future and regretting having taken a great shot as a jpg!

miketoll · Mar 3, 2009

postcardcv said:
there was a thread about it some time back - http://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=50295 though if memory serves it might to make things much clearer I'll go and re-read it now...

Thanks for the link but it seems there are two camps here about evenly divided so I am now more confused than ever. I know it is academic in that what really matters is what shutter speed I empirically need for a given lens to obtain a sharp image at the size of print I want. My head hurts now!

mike from ebbw · Mar 3, 2009

Geoff Haynes said:
Thank you all very much , a great deal learnt in a short time thanks to this forum and all you kind members . Please keep anymore info on the 450D or Tokina AT-X840 AF Canon EF lens coming.
I would like to see some images taken with the 450D with settings shown or any images taken with the Tokina lens, Thank you all again , Geoff.

Hi Geoff.
The Long Tailed Tit and the Nuthatch were taken with my 450d and Sigma 500mm 7.2 prime,iso 400 @ f7.2.
The Woodpecker and the Robin were taken on my 450d and Sigma 135-400mm,iso 400 @f8.

Hope this helps,Mike.

Beginner needing advice on settings please ? (1 Viewer)

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