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AGW and rising sea levels

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Old Sunday 22nd September 2019, 23:27   #676
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Facts on the ground outweigh any consensus.
Occam's razor would suggest that both Gore and Obama are well aware that there is no threat to their properties for the foreseeable future.
It is imho less than honest to propagandize kids to believe doom is imminent when you know better.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2019, 04:58   #677
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Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Facts on the ground outweigh any consensus.
Occam's razor would suggest that both Gore and Obama are well aware that there is no threat to their properties for the foreseeable future.
It is imho less than honest to propagandize kids to believe doom is imminent when you know better.
I was going to use pretty much exactly those words !
In the light of what they are advocating their behaviour is simply illogical ....

I find it more than a little ironic that AGW advocates move to the seaside while Trump tries to buy Greenland ....




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Old Monday 23rd September 2019, 06:11   #678
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What euphemism for “denier” would you prefer? The author of the article you provide the link to, by the way, roundly describes AGW as a “hoax” and if that doesn’t make him a “denier”, I don’t know what would.

As I’ve already pointed out, the notion that Gore and Obama have inside information contradicting their public positions on AGW is simply ludicrous. What would the motive be, depressing seaside property values so they could pick up their new holdings cheaply?? That would be a stretch even for a sleazy real estate mogul like Dumbo, whose golf courses disfigure coastlines both here and abroad.
No doubt there are paid shills and miscreants on all sides of the argument. For those not in those camps perhaps undecided, or unconvinced, or open to further proof, would be more suitable, however inconvenient that may be

As Etudiant said, who knows their motive ? Without direct interview (and likely interrogation under truth serum! :) we simply don't know enough information and can observe the behaviour as the most telling factor.

The most effective leaders will faithfully model the very behaviour they propose everyone else follow. This 'energy audit' from publicly available information shows AL Gore at 20-odd times + the national average energy consumption falling far short of that.
https://nationalcenter.org/ncppr/201...ZFOPZiKTOijAeo

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Old Monday 23rd September 2019, 22:42   #679
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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Facts on the ground outweigh any consensus.
The “consensus” is based on myriads of “facts” (measurements in this case) established by thousands of highly qualified scientists all over the world. Against that (as far as the evidence presented by your military historian goes) is the “extrapolation (of sea levels of the recent past) to 2100”. Talk about missing the point!

Quote:
Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
It is imho less than honest to propagandize kids to believe doom is imminent when you know better.
Imho it would be immoral not to inform “kids” (and everybody else) of anthropogenic climate change while there is still time—precious little time as it happens—to mitigate its catastrophic effects.

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Originally Posted by etudiant View Post
Occam's razor would suggest that both Gore and Obama are well aware that there is no threat to their properties for the foreseeable future.
Occam’s razor doesn’t “suggest” anything, it prunes away over-elaborate hypotheses in favor of simpler ones with the same explanatory power. In the present case, there are 2 competing hypotheses:

1/. The properties concerned were purchased by a couple of prominent Democratic politicians (both currently out-of-office) with secret knowledge that AGW is a hoax.
2/. The properties concerned, though coastal, are so situated as not to be in immediate danger of flooding

Implied by the first, is the existence of an otherwise undocumented left-wing conspiracy—Gore and Obama surely not being the only members of the Democratic elite in on the secret—to foist AGW “alarmism” on the general public.
Motive? Beats me. . .. But maybe you could suggest one?

Implied by the second, is due diligence in the purchase of coastal real estate.
Motive? Investment or some other legitimate purpose.

I’m pretty sure how Occam’s razor cuts in this case.
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Old Monday 23rd September 2019, 22:48   #680
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
No doubt there are paid shills and miscreants on all sides of the argument. For those not in those camps perhaps undecided, or unconvinced, or open to further proof, would be more suitable, however inconvenient that may be

As Etudiant said, who knows their motive ? Without direct interview (and likely interrogation under truth serum! :) we simply don't know enough information and can observe the behaviour as the most telling factor.

The most effective leaders will faithfully model the very behaviour they propose everyone else follow. This 'energy audit' from publicly available information shows AL Gore at 20-odd times + the national average energy consumption falling far short of that.
[url]https://nationalcenter.org/ncppr/2017/08/01/al-gores-inconvenient-reality-the-former-vice-presidents-home-energy-use-surges-up-to-34-times-the-national-average. . .
How about some examples of “paid shills” on the AGW side of the question?

What on earth does “effective” leadership have to do with AGW?
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 01:00   #681
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Originally Posted by fugl View Post
The “consensus” is based on myriads of “facts” (measurements in this case) established by thousands of highly qualified scientists all over the world. Against that (as far as the evidence presented by your military historian goes) is the “extrapolation (of sea levels of the recent past) to 2100”. Talk about missing the point!



Imho it would be immoral not to inform “kids” (and everybody else) of anthropogenic climate change while there is still time—precious little time as it happens—to mitigate its catastrophic effects.



Occam’s razor doesn’t “suggest” anything, it prunes away over-elaborate hypotheses in favor of simpler ones with the same explanatory power. In the present case, there are 2 competing hypotheses:

1/. The properties concerned were purchased by a couple of prominent Democratic politicians (both currently out-of-office) with secret knowledge that AGW is a hoax.
2/. The properties concerned, though coastal, are so situated as not to be in immediate danger of flooding

Implied by the first, is the existence of an otherwise undocumented left-wing conspiracy—Gore and Obama surely not being the only members of the Democratic elite in on the secret—to foist AGW “alarmism” on the general public.
Motive? Beats me. . .. But maybe you could suggest one?

Implied by the second, is due diligence in the purchase of coastal real estate.
Motive? Investment or some other legitimate purpose.

I’m pretty sure how Occam’s razor cuts in this case.
Nice try.

That fact is Obama is the ultimate hypocrite. Actions do indeed speak louder than words.
Who spends $14 million (investment or otherwise) on a property soon to be underwater!?
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 01:24   #682
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That fact is Obama is the ultimate hypocrite
Obama, not Gore? You surprise me. . ..
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 03:43   #683
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More blubber from the master of deflection and straw man.

It's a given that Gore is a climate hypocrite, but you already know that.
The carbon footprint of these elitist pigs dwarfs that of the average American, yet they are the self-imposed spokesmen of AGW.

It would be funny if not so ridiculous.

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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 04:06   #684
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More blubber from the master of deflection and straw man.

It's a given that Gore is climate hypocrite, but you already know that.
The carbon footprint of these elitist pigs dwarfs that of the average American, yet they are the self-imposed spokesmen of AGW.

It would be funny if not so ridiculous.
My, my, what’s set you off this fine Monday evening? Been hitting the sauce again, have you?

“Self-styled” would be better than “self-imposed”, I think.
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 04:34   #685
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
No doubt there are paid shills and miscreants on all sides of the argument. For those not in those camps perhaps undecided, or unconvinced, or open to further proof, would be more suitable, however inconvenient that may be

As Etudiant said, who knows their motive ? Without direct interview (and likely interrogation under truth serum! :) we simply don't know enough information and can observe the behaviour as the most telling factor.

The most effective leaders will faithfully model the very behaviour they propose everyone else follow. This 'energy audit' from publicly available information shows AL Gore at 20-odd times + the national average energy consumption falling far short of that.
https://nationalcenter.org/ncppr/201...ZFOPZiKTOijAeo

"All animals are equal, but some animals are more equal than others." ....... ¿¿
Quote:
Originally Posted by fugl View Post
How about some examples of “paid shills” on the AGW side of the question?
Snouts in the trough? They're wearing clothes and walking on hind legs !
Pretty sure at least 1 was just detailed - follow the money, follow the money ......


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What on earth does “effective” leadership have to do with AGW?
A leader without followers is just a person going for a walk by themselves .......




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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 04:47   #686
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Originally Posted by fugl View Post
The “consensus” is based on myriads of “facts” (measurements in this case) established by thousands of highly qualified scientists all over the world. Against that (as far as the evidence presented by your military historian goes) is the “extrapolation (of sea levels of the recent past) to 2100”. Talk about missing the point!
Forget the extrapolations and modeling - what about the measurement evidence just presented?

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Originally Posted by fugl View Post
Occam’s razor doesn’t “suggest” anything, it prunes away over-elaborate hypotheses in favor of simpler ones with the same explanatory power. In the present case, there are 2 competing hypotheses: .........
Just two?

Isn't the oceanfront Monticeto pad for the ex-missus Tipper? Maybe the divorce was somewhat acrimonious? Maybe Al thinks a comprehensive drowning may shut her up and get her out of his pockets? (he's got electricity bills to pay you know ! )
Want me to buy you a house Tipper?! .......... suuuure .......


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Motive? Beats me. . .. But maybe you could suggest one?
Isn't the smart money on the Holy Grail? .......... taxing air?





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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 05:49   #687
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My, my, what’s set you off this fine Monday evening? Been hitting the sauce again, have you?

“Self-styled” would be better than “self-imposed”, I think.
Meh. More deflection and silly word games.

It is, however, a fine Monday evening...
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 09:19   #688
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Can someone deport Scott Morrison immediately - I'm all cringed out .......




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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 18:23   #689
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Dumbo stared down by a child—

https://www.theguardian.com/environm...ment-un-summit
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 18:53   #690
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That child will be lucky to live a normal life. And it will have nothing to do with 'climate.'

Once George Soros' handlers are done using her, she'll need psychotherapy for life.
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 19:08   #691
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That child will be lucky to live a normal life. . ..
Certainly not "normal" from the perspective of northern Idaho. Here's what Dumbo has to say on the subject--

“She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!”— D. J. Trump on Twitter as quoted by USA Today

In general, the political posturings of children hold little interest for me.
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 20:55   #692
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Certainly not "normal" from the perspective of northern Idaho. Here's what Dumbo has to say on the subject--

“She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!”— D. J. Trump on Twitter as quoted by USA Today

In general, the political posturings of children hold little interest for me.
What would you know of northern Idaho? One could find that comment somewhat ironic as well given that you are a bloke from Reno. Er...edit, "Portland." Antifa capital of the U.S.

The political posturings of kids may be of little interest for you, but Trump's trolling sure is. Fugs = checkers DJT = chess
Like it or not, the guy toys with the media and your ilk with aplomb.

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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 21:30   #693
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. . . Fugs = checkers DJT = chess
Litebeam = beer pong (bud lite). DJT = beer pong (expensive imported brew)
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 21:57   #694
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Certainly not "normal" from the perspective of northern Idaho. Here's what Dumbo has to say on the subject--

“She seems like a very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future. So nice to see!”— D. J. Trump on Twitter as quoted by USA Today
Greta with considerable and ironic subtlety has now amended her website to describe herself as "A very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future"...!

Pity that irony is wasted on those who lack self-awareness...
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 23:42   #695
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Greta with considerable and ironic subtlety has now amended her website to describe herself as "A very happy young girl looking forward to a bright and wonderful future"...
Indeed, an effectively deployed variation of the timeworn tactic of turning the enemy’s words against him.

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Pity that irony is wasted on those who lack self-awareness...
Indeed, again, but that said, I’ve never been a fan of children’s crusades and in this case worry about their potential to distract attention from necessary action by voting-age adults. Juvenile passion is all very well, but successfully dealing with AGW and other serious problems can only be achieved by hard thinking and harder politicking on the part of their elders. And that I don't see happening anytime soon.
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Old Tuesday 24th September 2019, 23:48   #696
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.... I’ve never been a fan of children’s crusades and in this case worry about their potential to distract attention from necessary action by voting-age adults. Juvenile passion is all very well, but successfully dealing with AGW and other serious problems can only be achieved by hard thinking and harder politicking on the part of their elders.
Agree on that 100%, children's crusades historically have generated horrors.
Just hope that this one does not spawn yet another one.
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Old Wednesday 25th September 2019, 01:33   #697
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Greta with considerable and ironic subtlety has amended her website...
lol!! What rubbish.
Riiiiiight. Sure she did.....

Gullible much? Soros Inc. and this girl's handlers are pushing every button.
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Old Wednesday 25th September 2019, 01:40   #698
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..the timeworn tactic of turning the enemy’s words against him.
"The timeworn tactic....."
Bwahahahaa...... what a bunch of pompous crap!...busting a gut over this... Bwahaha...

You guys are something else. lol.....
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Old Wednesday 25th September 2019, 14:17   #699
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'Climate Activist' or 'Climate Actress' ? is the question that crosses my mind.

She looks (to me) for all the world to be dancing to the tune of 'handlers' and 'puppet masters'
Hair trigger quick with the twitter response, and that speech - did she really write it ? (I suppose there's a lot of spare time sailing across an ocean ....)

All in service of the pursuit of the Holy Grail ..... with the added bonus of intergenerational animosity thrown in for good measure !





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Old Wednesday 25th September 2019, 20:24   #700
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New report on the effects of rising ocean temperatures—

https://www.nytimes.com/2019/09/25/c...core-ios-share
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