Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Zeiss - Always on the lookout for something special – Shop now

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

New split for North Africa : Maghreb Wood Owl

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 10:27   #1
Moussier20
Forum Member

 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: tunis
Posts: 63
New split for North Africa : Maghreb Wood Owl

The new specie status "Split" for the Maghreb Wood Owl was accepted by Isenmann & Thévenot (Alauda 86: 117-152 2018)
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	chouette hulotte  Sejnène001@REDIM.jpg
Views:	197
Size:	593.8 KB
ID:	682062  
Moussier20 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 15:34   #2
James Jobling
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: East Sussex
Posts: 751
I assume this is Strix (aluco) mauritanica (Witherby 1905), the Maghreb or Barbary Owl. I think Maghreb Wood Owl invites confusion or comparison with some of the Asiatic species (e.g. S. leptogrammica, S. seloputo), and Maghreb Tawny Owl means we would have to rename our Tawny Owl.

Last edited by James Jobling : Sunday 9th December 2018 at 18:52. Reason: What's in a name.....
James Jobling is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 16:17   #3
LeNomenclatoriste
Taxonomy and Shiny hunting
 
LeNomenclatoriste's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: La Rochelle (France)
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jobling View Post
I assume this is Strix (aluco) mauritanica (Witherby 1905)
This is the answer I expected
LeNomenclatoriste is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 17:50   #4
Steve Lister
World Birder, ex-County Recorder, Garden Moth-er

 
Join Date: Dec 2002
Location: Loughborough, Leicestershire
Posts: 4,432
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Jobling View Post
I assume this is Strix (aluco) mauritanica (Witherby 1905), the Maghreb or Barbary Owl. I think Maghreb Wood Owl invites confusion or comparison with some of the Asiatic species (e.g. S. leptogrammica, S. seloputo)
I would have thought 'Maghreb' was clear enough. Maghreb Tawny Owl would do for me - if it really does justify a split.

We already have Maghreb Wheatear (sort of), Maghreb Magpie and Maghreb Lark of course.

Steve
Steve Lister is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 18:43   #5
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 19,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Steve Lister View Post
I would have thought 'Maghreb' was clear enough. Maghreb Tawny Owl would do for me - if it really does justify a split.
Maghreb Tawny Owl would've been my first thought for a name for it, but Maghreb Wood Owl has the advantage that Tawny Owl can stay Tawny Owl, and doesn't have to be clarified as "European Tawny Owl" or "Northern Tawny Owl" or whatever
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Sunday 9th December 2018, 23:21   #6
Acanthis
Registered User
 
Acanthis's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: East Lothian, Scotland
Posts: 435
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Maghreb Tawny Owl would've been my first thought for a name for it, but Maghreb Wood Owl has the advantage that Tawny Owl can stay Tawny Owl, and doesn't have to be clarified as "European Tawny Owl" or "Northern Tawny Owl" or whatever
I agree.
If it's the only owl species unique to the Maghreb then 'Maghreb Owl' would surely suffice.
Keep things simple
__________________
SANDY
Latest Lifer: Peruvian Sheartail
Flickr: https://www.flickr.com/photos/[email protected]/albums;
eBird: https://ebird.org/profile/NTA1NzAz
Acanthis is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 10th December 2018, 01:21   #7
Nutcracker
Stop Brexit!
 
Nutcracker's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: UK
Posts: 19,599
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acanthis View Post
I agree.
If it's the only owl species unique to the Maghreb then 'Maghreb Owl' would surely suffice.
Keep things simple
Not at the moment, but I guess there could be potential for future splits in the local endemic subspecies of African Marsh Owl (Asio capensis tingitanus) and Little Owl (Athene noctua saharae).
Nutcracker is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Monday 10th December 2018, 22:11   #8
Larry Sweetland
Formerly 'Larry Wheatland'
 
Larry Sweetland's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Bristol
Posts: 7,783
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nutcracker View Post
Not at the moment, but I guess there could be potential for future splits in the local endemic subspecies of African Marsh Owl (Asio capensis tingitanus) and Little Owl (Athene noctua saharae).
Good point.
Larry Sweetland is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:03   #9
Peter Kovalik
Registered User
 
Peter Kovalik's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Sp. Hrhov
Posts: 3,077
Strix mauritanica

IOC Updates Diary Jan 8

Accept proposed split of Maghreb Owl
Peter Kovalik is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:10   #10
LeNomenclatoriste
Taxonomy and Shiny hunting
 
LeNomenclatoriste's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: La Rochelle (France)
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Peter Kovalik View Post
IOC Updates Diary Jan 8

Accept proposed split of Maghreb Owl
Based on what?
LeNomenclatoriste is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:12   #11
James Lowther
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 2,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
Based on what?
"Proposed split (10.1) based on morphology, genetics and vocals (Brito 2005, Doña et al. 2015, Robb 2015)"

James
James Lowther is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:19   #12
LeNomenclatoriste
Taxonomy and Shiny hunting
 
LeNomenclatoriste's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: La Rochelle (France)
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by James Lowther View Post
"Proposed split (10.1) based on morphology, genetics and vocals (Brito 2005, Doña et al. 2015, Robb 2015)"

James

Do you have a link to these works?
LeNomenclatoriste is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:21   #13
James Lowther
Registered User

 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Weymouth
Posts: 2,824
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
Do you have a link to these works?
no, that's a direct quote from the IOC website,

James
James Lowther is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 11:23   #14
DMW
Registered User
 
DMW's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: Jersey
Posts: 1,899
There's an interesting analysis of vocals on the Sound Approach website. https://soundapproach.co.uk/species/maghreb-wood-owl/
DMW is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 9th January 2020, 13:39   #15
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 3,415
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
Do you have a link to these works?
Brito PH. 2005. The influence of Pleistocene glacial refugia on Tawny Owl genetic diversity and phylogeography in western Europe. Mol. Ecol., 14: 3077-3094.
[pdf]

Doña J, Ruiz-Ruano FJ, Jovani R. 2016. DNA barcoding of Iberian Peninsula and North Africa Tawny Owls Strix aluco suggests the Strait of Gibraltar as an important barrier for phylogeography. Mitoch. DNA A, 27: 4475-4478.
[pdf] [suppl. mat. on FigShare] [data on BOLD]

Robb MS, The Sound Approach. 2015. Undiscovered Owls. Enefco House, Poole, Dorset.
This is a book, see https://soundapproach.co.uk/product/undiscovered-owls/; the link in the last post is a "web-book" version of it. (For the whole "web-book", go [here].)

Last edited by l_raty : Thursday 9th January 2020 at 13:59. Reason: wrong link to FigShare
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th January 2020, 14:45   #16
andyadcock
Registered User
 
andyadcock's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 16,423
Quote:
Originally Posted by Acanthis View Post
I agree.
If it's the only owl species unique to the Maghreb then 'Maghreb Owl' would surely suffice.
Keep things simple
The way things are now, I'm surprised they haven't called it a 'Wadi Gerbil Assassin', all written in Arabic of course.
__________________
Andy A
andyadcock is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th January 2020, 17:49   #17
Simon Wates
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Algarve, Portugal
Posts: 6,404
Reading the Sound Approach pages posted it all seems reasonable to me, there are plenty of tough to ID owls and this one does have a pellicular call, is consistently distinct in plumage and seems mainly to inhabit evergreen "Mediterranean type" woodlands (like Atlas Cedar, Cork Oak and pines etc.) through Morocco and Tunisia at least.
Simon Wates is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 10th January 2020, 19:42   #18
McMadd
You should see the other bloke...
 
McMadd's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Tampere
Posts: 2,454
Quote:
Originally Posted by andyadcock View Post
The way things are now, I'm surprised they haven't called it a 'Wadi Gerbil Assassin', all written in Arabic of course.
and here's the thread I started for "most Imperialistic comment on another thread"...oh wait...couldn't be bothered...
McMadd is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th January 2020, 10:57   #19
jurek
Registered User
 
jurek's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2003
Location: Switzerland/Poland
Posts: 4,138
I would not interpret local differences without a large library of sounds from multiple localities. I know how incredibly variable are calls of Tawny Owls. I heard a variety of muffled and garbled songs, half-finished songs and sounds in between the usual call and the hooting song. This spring I heard a bird calling for long time with a disyllabic hoot, which sounded like the start of a normal song without the main part. I see no reason why in North Africa there should be no similar variation.

Of, course, there might be an undiscovered cryptic Strix owl breeding in Switzerland.
jurek is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th January 2020, 11:11   #20
opisska
Jan Ebr
 
opisska's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2012
Location: Warszawa
Posts: 1,468
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek View Post
I would not interpret local differences without a large library of sounds from multiple localities. I know how incredibly variable are calls of Tawny Owls. I heard a variety of muffled and garbled songs, half-finished songs and sounds in between the usual call and the hooting song. This spring I heard a bird calling for long time with a disyllabic hoot, which sounded like the start of a normal song without the main part. I see no reason why in North Africa there should be no similar variation.

Of, course, there might be an undiscovered cryptic Strix owl breeding in Switzerland.
This caught my attention, because in Czech Republic and Poland, I have basically never heard a Tawny Owl deviate significantly from the typical tune. Also for example the Desert Owl (which is quite related) has a call like a recording of itself, both in Israel and Oman.
__________________
Birds: world 2160, WP 561, gWP 598 (#1 Czech WP and gWP birder!*), bird photos
Mammals: 257, mammal photos
* and my wife is #3 in both
opisska is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 11th January 2020, 20:20   #21
Simon Wates
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Algarve, Portugal
Posts: 6,404
Quote:
Originally Posted by jurek View Post
I would not interpret local differences without a large library of sounds from multiple localities.
But that, amongst other things is what the Sound Aprroach did. The main advertising call is rather distinct I'd say, even counting for variations within aluco.
Simon Wates is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 07:55   #22
LeNomenclatoriste
Taxonomy and Shiny hunting
 
LeNomenclatoriste's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: La Rochelle (France)
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by Moussier20 View Post
The new specie status "Split" for the Maghreb Wood Owl was accepted by Isenmann & Thévenot (Alauda 86: 117-152 2018)
Anyone have news of the article ?
LeNomenclatoriste is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 10:30   #23
MJB
Registered User
 
MJB's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Holt
Posts: 4,834
Quote:
Originally Posted by LeNomenclatoriste View Post
Anyone have news of the article ?
You can request a download on ResearchGate...
MJB
__________________
The fuzziness of all supposedly absolute taxonomic distinctions - Stephen Jay Gould (1977) "Ever Since Darwin: Reflections in Natural History".
Species and subspecies are but a convenient fiction - Kees van Deemter (2010), "In praise of vagueness". Biology is messy
MJB is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 10:36   #24
LeNomenclatoriste
Taxonomy and Shiny hunting
 
LeNomenclatoriste's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2015
Location: La Rochelle (France)
Posts: 771
Quote:
Originally Posted by MJB View Post
You can request a download on ResearchGate...
MJB
Do you know the title of their paper?
LeNomenclatoriste is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 14th January 2020, 11:55   #25
l_raty
laurent raty
 
l_raty's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Brussels, Belgium
Posts: 3,415
Isenmann P, Thévenot M. 2018. Endémisme et différenciation taxinomique chez les oiseaux nicheurs terrestres en Afrique du Nord. Alauda, 86: 117-152.
l_raty is online now  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
New split for North Africa : Desert Grey Shrike Moussier20 Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature 4 Friday 23rd November 2018 01:22
8 split wood pigeons, lying on their backs . . . mike160304 Birds Of Prey 22 Thursday 18th October 2018 08:16
Crested and Maghreb Larks Acrocephalus Bird Taxonomy and Nomenclature 0 Friday 9th February 2018 18:52
Wood Sandpiper?, Kruger NP South Africa angi-p Bird Identification Q&A 3 Sunday 27th November 2016 09:01
Maghreb Wheatear Tiger Pitta Morocco 4 Wednesday 13th July 2016 17:37

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.26300192 seconds with 40 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 09:32.