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No retro Trinovids after all?

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Old Tuesday 6th February 2018, 10:48   #51
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Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
Perhaps they will move production overseas and save $$.

A.W.
Perhaps (probably) it is already overseas and perhaps the overseas production cannot handle all the production being asked of it.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 00:08   #52
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Perhaps (probably) it is already overseas and perhaps the overseas production cannot handle all the production being asked of it.

Lee

Is Portugal considered overseas?

Bob
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 06:10   #53
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In the early 2000s, Nikon decided to release an updated "retro" film slr called the FM-3A. It was the successor to the workhorses FM-2 and FE-2 models which by that time had been discontinued for over a decade. Nikon's intention was to use the same construction methods used in the older models, but soon discovered that the older methods were so different from what their current workers were accustomed to, that they were forced to rehire skilled workers out of retirement to get the cameras built. The end result was that the FM-3A cost 3x what the FM-2 and FE-2 cost when they were current on the market.

I think that if the problem with the new/old trinovid were a lack of skilled labor, then production would still be crawling along slowly, rather than completely halted. I think it more likely that some specialized mold or machinery unique to the trinovid unexpectedly broke, and now they've got to fabricate a new one... or abandon the project. I'm kicking myself for not picking up a 7x35 when I had the chance. A nearby Leica Store had one in stock last November, but then Leica had a sale over Black Friday / Cyber Monday, and someone else got it.
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 06:48   #54
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Is Portugal considered overseas?
From the UK, everything else is overseas...

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I'm kicking myself for not picking up a 7x35 when I had the chance. A nearby Leica Store had one in stock last November, but then Leica had a sale
First time I hear any were actually sold. I understood that delivery never started. You are sure that had a new 7x35 in stock, or was it perhaps just shown being on stock by mistake...?
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 07:37   #55
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Is Portugal considered overseas?

Bob
Definitely.

Lee
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 10:01   #56
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From above:
Quote:
The Juelich forum discussion suggests that Leica used to have technicians that fine tuned the mechanicals, but that these skills were lost as the people retired.
Quote:
Seems to me that it is time for Leica/former Leitz to relocate their production facilities into one or two of the retirement homes in Wetzlar and the surrounding area to reactivate the old guy and gals from former times when the world was still in order.
Quote:
In the early 2000s, Nikon decided to release an updated "retro" film slr...intention was to use the same construction methods used in the older models, but soon discovered that the older methods were so different from what their current workers were accustomed to, that they were forced to rehire skilled workers out of retirement to get the cameras built...I think that if the problem with the new/old trinovid were a lack of skilled labor, then production would still be crawling along slowly, rather than completely halted.
The article linked here should be interesting to anyone who likes fine binoculars (please note I am not saying that fine binoculars needs this!) As I recall I was first directed to it by a post in BirdForum some years back, now remembered and searched for it.
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Old Wednesday 7th February 2018, 10:14   #57
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The article linked here should be interesting to anyone who likes fine binoculars
A lot in this article, e.g. regarding the workers education and conditions, is not particulaly special for Swarovski, but is just the way professional education is done in Austria (similarly in Germany or Switzerland) and how medium sized bussinesses operate here...
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Old Thursday 8th February 2018, 19:43   #58
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Thanks Dalat for that information. But surely Swaro. is taking that further: below, I copy from the article. Also, my second quote above is from Germany (perhaps here and there "the world is still in order"!)

...For instance, they will do a lot of grinding, sanding and polishing by hand to get an understanding of the glass before they learn about the machining...The apprentices also learn how to construct the binocular and scope housings by hand, starting out with the manual machines before moving on to the CNC machines. After the first year they are tasked with making their own clocks. This is a longstanding Swarovski tradition and a fascinating array of students' clocks adorns the walls...

Last edited by adhoc : Friday 9th February 2018 at 04:06.
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Old Friday 9th February 2018, 16:45   #59
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Seems to me that it is time for Leica/former Leitz to relocate their production facilities into one or two of the retirement homes in Wetzlar and the surrounding area to reactivate the old guy and gals from former times when the world was still in order.

Or to get one of the old Trinovids and only use them when it's not pouring rain outside.
I suspect that the problem is related to the costs and difficulties inherent in the production of uppendahl prisms rather than waterproofing issues.
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Old Friday 9th February 2018, 23:01   #60
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I will say, good for Leica, I want them to do things right with this new binocular.

It may be styled like the older model, but be assured, it will be much different and improved.

This is a boutique binocular, that may have a nice sales volume, if done right.

Better late than never.

Jerry
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Old Friday 9th February 2018, 23:10   #61
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I'm not very qualified to speculate, but I somewhat doubt that Leica is now really working two more years on bringing back those old Trinovids. If it is so difficult, wouldn't the time and money be better invested in a 32 Noctivid? I rather guess they simply relegated this retro-project to later, because perhaps they have other urgent and more profitable business to do. Like building cameras...
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Old Saturday 10th February 2018, 01:51   #62
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I suspect that the problem is related to the costs and difficulties inherent in the production of uppendahl prisms rather than waterproofing issues.
I don't think that's the problem. Without any fanfare Leica has been using Uppendahl prisms in some of their Geovid models.
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Old Sunday 11th February 2018, 03:46   #63
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I don't think that's the problem. Without any fanfare Leica has been using Uppendahl prisms in some of their Geovid models.
Henry:

Thanks for that cut away of the Leica's. It would be nice to also show
a typical Abbe Koenig and Schmidt Pechan prism type to add to the
current rangefinder models available.

Zeiss has now introduced a new rangefinder binocular based on the HT
that has the most advance electronics to communicate by bluetooth to a riflescope for data needed on the range.

This could be another whole topic, but in my short search, I did find that
Leica has described that the previous Geovid model shown has a "compact roof
prism" design. I suppose that means Uppendahl.

Leica is all about function and style, and I am wondering if the perger porro
has advantages over the Uppendahl.

Engineering the electronic components needed for the rangefinder requires
space and room for batteries.

Swarovski has the Schmidt Pechan prisms, and they use a lump for the
electronics on the back side. The others do not.

Jerry
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Old Tuesday 13th February 2018, 20:40   #64
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I don't think that's the problem. Without any fanfare Leica has been using Uppendahl prisms in some of their Geovid models.
Hi Henry - are the Uppendahl prisms appreciably more difficult to manufacture than other types? Ken Rockwell has claimed so in his "review" of the Leitz 10x40 non-B, but I'd be grateful for some independent corroboration...

Thanks in advance,
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Old Tuesday 13th February 2018, 21:03   #65
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Hi Henry - are the Uppendahl prisms appreciably more difficult to manufacture than other types? Ken Rockwell has claimed so in his "review" of the Leitz 10x40 non-B, but I'd be grateful for some independent corroboration...
Forget about Ken Rockwell. He doesn't appear to know all that much about cameras, and he certainly knows nothing about binoculars.

I think the problem isn't that Uppendahl prisms are "more difficult" to manufacture than Schmidt-Pechan prisms (or, for that matter, Abbe-König prisms) but rather than SP prisms are much more common than AK prisms and especially Uppendahl prisms. Every half-way decent optics manufacturer will nowadays be able to make any number of SP prisms at fairly low cost simply because there's so much demand for them. AK prisms are much rarer, and Uppendahl prisms are very, very rare indeed. So the manufacturers will basically lack the experience to make them reliably to very high standards.

BTW, given the price Leica originally asked for the retro Trinovids I think it's safe to assume that Leica planned to buy some components on the world market, for instance in Japan. Maybe the manufacturers they worked with didn't manage to turn out high-quality Uppendahl prisms in sufficient numbers. And making them in Germany or Portugal would have made the binoculars much more expensive, plus I'm not sure they even have the capacity to make them in larger numbers nowadays.

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Old Tuesday 13th February 2018, 23:07   #66
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Forget about Ken Rockwell. He doesn't appear to know all that much about cameras, and he certainly knows nothing about binoculars.

Well said.
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Old Wednesday 14th February 2018, 14:18   #67
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Forget about Ken Rockwell. He doesn't appear to know all that much about cameras, and he certainly knows nothing about binoculars.

I think the problem isn't that Uppendahl prisms are "more difficult" to manufacture than Schmidt-Pechan prisms (or, for that matter, Abbe-König prisms) but rather than SP prisms are much more common than AK prisms and especially Uppendahl prisms. Every half-way decent optics manufacturer will nowadays be able to make any number of SP prisms at fairly low cost simply because there's so much demand for them. AK prisms are much rarer, and Uppendahl prisms are very, very rare indeed. So the manufacturers will basically lack the experience to make them reliably to very high standards.

BTW, given the price Leica originally asked for the retro Trinovids I think it's safe to assume that Leica planned to buy some components on the world market, for instance in Japan. Maybe the manufacturers they worked with didn't manage to turn out high-quality Uppendahl prisms in sufficient numbers. And making them in Germany or Portugal would have made the binoculars much more expensive, plus I'm not sure they even have the capacity to make them in larger numbers nowadays.

Hermann
I doubt labor is cheaper in Japan, compared to Germany. I do know Japan is capable of mass production. Something Germany/Portugal is not.
But the rumor that Far East components were delayed together with a wide sample variation could be (partly) true.

Jan
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Old Wednesday 14th February 2018, 23:54   #68
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Better late then never....

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Old Thursday 15th February 2018, 00:28   #69
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I am curious on how many they will make and how many they will sell. Time will tell.

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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 08:59   #70
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OK, it's official.
In the coming fiscal Leica year (march 2018-2019) there is no room for a budget regarding the Icons.

Jan
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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 14:17   #71
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OK, it's official.
In the coming fiscal Leica year (march 2018-2019) there is no room for a budget regarding the Icons.

Jan
Your budget or Leica's budget?
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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 15:24   #72
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Your budget or Leica's budget?
LOL, but for the 7x35 there would always be a budget
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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 15:45   #73
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Jan:

Astroshop probably is the largest optics retailer in Europe and they say they'll be able to ship next week---just poorly informed?

Peter
https://www.astroshop.eu/leica-trino...hromed/p,55330
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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 16:18   #74
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LOL, but for the 7x35 there would always be a budget
Ha, same here!
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Old Saturday 17th February 2018, 21:57   #75
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Jan:

Astroshop probably is the largest optics retailer in Europe and they say they'll be able to ship next week---just poorly informed?

Peter
https://www.astroshop.eu/leica-trino...hromed/p,55330
I don‘t think it‘s that - rather, they forgot to take that statement off after the delays became known (it had been on their website since quite some time).
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