• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Report: BGA Classic 7x36 (1 Viewer)

typo

Well-known member
I've had a Bushnell Elite 7x26 for a couple of years and providing it's dry and bright it's been my pick and go choice. The simplest way to describe the Opticron BGA Classic 7x36 is that it is the waterproof, big brother to the Bushnell I've been looking for.

I think the Classic is excellent but it's not going to be an easy sell. I guess it would be fair to call it a 'retro' design with modern coatings. I'm more than happy to concede that many will find the current generation of wide, flat field, neutral coloured designs preferable for birding. I really prefer a bit more character, but then, generally I get out in the country to relax and enjoy what I see, not to worry about what I might have missed or agonise over a tricky ID. For me the Classic fits the bill perfectly. I tend to bring a 12x as well if I'm being serious.

I'm using the Bushnell as a the reference pair for the report for it's similarity and it might be more familiar to forum members than the other pairs I have. Martin Fagg did quite a detailed review about a year ago with other comparisons. My observations differs on couple of points. I have been unable to contact him, but I suspect these may be explained by using glasses. With my weak prescription I noted a slightly different characteristics with and without.

http://www.opticron.co.uk/Pages/bga_classic_7x36.htm

There doesn't seem to be much written about the Classic. It is a very close relative of the Swift Eaglet. Even though they have the same ancestry the current specifications are slightly different. I don't know the history, but it's a pretty old design, and this old review of the Eaglet from Better View Desired (early '90s?) sums up the appeal pretty well, and also sums up my thoughts on the modern Classic as well.

“The real strength of the Eaglets however, is not any one feature, but the sum of their many charms. They are easy to carry, comfortable in hands, water and weatherproof, easy to look through, and optically adequate to most birding situations you might run across in a day in the field. They fit in the pocket of most field jackets, and tuck easily into a brief case or carry on. I find that, even though I know there are slightly better views sitting on my shelf, the Eaglets are getting more than their share of use.”

http://www.betterviewdesired.com/Swift-Eaglet-and-Nikon-Action-Egret-II.php

The techie bits. Sorry, quite long.

Why 7x36?
7x has fallen from favour these days. There are quite a few devotees on the forum and the recent interest in rediscovering old porros suggests interest is not quite dead. I have 6,7,8,9,10 and 12x of varying quality and tried well over 100 others, but it's the 7x that works best for me. Mostly it's the steadiness and DOF. With higher powers it's just more demanding on the focus and bracing for a little, or in my case, often no detail advantage. I simply find 7x is more relaxing and enjoyable to use.

There aren't many catalogue 7x these days and even fewer in the shops. I've managed to track down a few nice x42s but doubt I can get any benefit from more than a 5mm EP these days so prefer not to be burdened by the extra size and weight. I'd never seen any of the Opticron 7x in the retail outlets, so made the trip to their Luton HQ a few weeks back to check out the three pairs they still offer. I'd be quite content with either of the others, but it was the more compact Classic that wowed me. Prior to that the Meopta Meopro 6.5x32 had been top of wish list. The Classic is pretty much the same size and weight, but much more to my tastes. I have reason to believe the pair I subsequently bought is old stock and may differ in minor ways to the pair I tested.

Ergonomics
Nice! Very nice.

At 125mm (<4.9”) long, with slim barrels it's more the size of most 8x32s. At 623g (22oz) it feels quite solid for it's size without being heavy. There are lighter pairs around, but the proportion of metal in the construction feels reassuring. For comparison the Nikon Monarch 8x36 is 560g (20oz) 125mm long, Zen Ray 7x36 662g (23oz) 147mm, and the Hawke Frontier ED 8x36 is 700g (24.7oz) 150mm.

The distance from the strap lugs to the end of the objectives is just the width of my hands and the recess on the mouldings seems perfect for thumb pads. Probably the most comfortable pair I've ever held. The focus is 1 ½ turns anticlockwise from 4ft to infinity but a fairly fast ¼ turn from 20ft to infinity. The focus on the pair I bought is not as light as one I tried a few weeks ago, but still very smooth.

The ER is listed at 19mm, and is too generous for my close fitting glasses. I'm currently using the first stop to avoid blackouts, but a simple fix with O-rings should be perfect when I get to a hardware store. The eye cups extend in two ratcheted stages, 5mm and 11mm. The dioptre adjustment is quite stiff with click stops. The zero point is spot on.

The Japanese build quality appears very good.

View
The main appeal to me is that is delivers a easy, bright, detailed view with characteristics that are very close to the Bushnell.

One thing that puzzled me about the BVD review was describing the view as 'fairly flat'. I can't rule out possibility that the Classic is different in this respect from the Eaglet but it seems unlikely. It is indeed 'fairly flat' from 4ft to about 20ft, but the field curvature progressively increases from that point on. When viewing across open ground, often all the foreground is in focus giving the illusion of an infinite DOF. At certain distances the degree of curvature is more noticeable, and the area in sharp focus seems smallest (~50%) at about 40m but the focus softening is mild and gradual. For me at least, the gain in apparent DOF out ways that disadvantage. I suspect the curvature effects I see may be less apparent for younger eyes and they may indeed find it 'fairly flat' and the view even easier than I do.


The FOV is listed as 128m @1000m (384ft @1000yds). By modern standards a 50.4* AFOV is hardly impressive, but I don't feel it's restrictive and is a small improvement over the Bushnell. The Zen Ray 7x36 has much larger 477ft @1000yds but judging by the reports, softer edges. The Classic is sharp, right to the edge like the Bushnell.

Where is does win out over much of the reasonably priced competition is contrast. The blacks are very black. The slightly warm colour balance is more to my taste than many alternatives but there is probably a fraction more blue in the transmission spectrum than the Bushnell. Some colours, particularly reds and yellows appear a little more vivid and distinct than when using more overtly neutral pairs, but certainly not as 'hot' as some I've tried. With some really critical observation there were some other tiny differences between the two. The reverse porro may be fractionally better on contrast, but few roofs below the alphas reaches that standard IMO. It appears that the Classic roof might be again a fraction behind the reverse porro on transmission brightness, but the extra EP shows it's benefit in deep shadows and late dusk. The Classic has phase coating and 'Oasis' 64 layer prism coatings with 99% transmission! No, I'm not sure what that mean either, but I'm guessing the subtle differences I see between the Classic and the Bushnell may be due to prisms efficiency.

I've misplaced my good copy of the USAF chart, but a boosted test (49x) on printed material showed the Classic was marginally better on resolution than the Bushnell as you would expect. Neither are going to set records. I could not spot any asymmetry in the view. At 7x they are both more than sharp enough and indistinguishable.

There is quite a mild pincushion throughout the focus range. I see no sign of a 'rolling ball' effect, but with the field curvature it may be somewhat masked.

For spectacle wearers there is a occasionally a little more rear reflection than I've usually encountered, but rarely distracting and easily dealt with, and, of course, no problem with the eye cups extended. My first test with the Classic was the perfect overcast day for finding CA. It had a little more than the Bushnell, but was certainly better than some other I tried. I've now used my pair for about a week under variable conditions. I can see fringing at the edges, but it's slight and I have go looking for it. Not intrusive at all, and definitely better than some mid priced ED pairs I've tried. Glare and flare control is quite reasonable but the purchased pair is not quite up to standard of the test pair I tried recently or the Bushnell. Generally repositioning the eye is usually sufficient to eliminate problems.

All in all the characteristics of the Bushnell and Classic are remarkably similar. The Classic has the small advantage of a wider view, but it is tempting to suspect they have a common optical configuration, and differences mostly accounted for by their prisms.

There is one aspect of both the Classic and the Bushnell that appeals to me greatly that I have to say I don't understand it. They have more 3-dimensional spacial positioning than is usually seen with roofs etc.. Don't know how that works with close objectives, but I like it.

Value
A tricky subject. The list price for the Classic is £399, though is commonly on offer at £360. There is little doubt there are newer more fashionable 8x and 10x with wider, flatter, more neutral views available for less money. Understandably it's a slow seller these days. However, beauty is in the eye of the beholder, and I've not found a pair that suites me better for the money. I owe particular thanks to NormJackson who found a heavily discounted pair. These had obviously been in stock for at least five years judging from the documentation, and from the serial number might be older. This may explain the minor differences between the pair I tried at Opticron and the ones I bought. At the price I paid I have no complaints, but it leaves me curious if there has been a minor refinement to coatings, lubrication etc. in the intervening period.

David
 
I get the feling you'd like that other pair you tried?

I mean you don't seem to completely have received what you wanted after trying the pair at Opticron.

Maybe they'd let you swop? Maybe its just you who detects the difference in them so I don't think it should be a problem for them or maybe you need to compare the two side by side again just to double check?

Cheers

Clive
 
I've asked Opticron what they can tell me about the model's history but not had a reply yet. The regular price would have been out of the question for me at the moment, so I was more than happy with the 'demo' price I paid. Beggars can't be choosers ;)

David
 
Bushnell Elite 7x26, Opticron BGA Classic 7x36, Pentax LV 9x28

David
 

Attachments

  • Classic.jpg
    Classic.jpg
    70.2 KB · Views: 562
Hi David - thanks for the comprehensive review! I've answered your PM so you can add the final detail to the text.

Cheers, Pete
 
Unfortunately, it's too late to edit the original report. Pete (Opticron) has assured me that there have been no changes to the classic in the time frame involved. Different days, different pairs, maybe maybe I'm mistaken. As I said, I'm happy with the pair I have.

David
 
I had a Swift Eaglet for some time. Sold it for some reason, something I likely should not have done. It is a small ergonomic delight. Mine proclaimed to have a 374' fov, but actually measured 400'. Which may explain why it, like your BGA Classic, did not seem so small as it should have.

The view was nice, but frankly no match for the ZEN ED 2 7x36, which was sharper in the center. I liked the edges of the Swift, and I have to say I never particularly noticed field curvature except at the outer edges.

I agree with the BVD assessmant that they are good enough for almost any birding situation.
 
Steve,

As I mentioned I tried a boosted resolution test on the Classic. The numbers were definitely shifted due to a rubbish copy of the chart (my ink was running out), but suggested it was possibly not particularly special for an x36, but still definitely better than most x32s.

David
 
Last edited:
Just an update the ER issue I noted above. I've now sorted out an intermediate position to work with my glasses. It's made a big difference. I think I must have been flexing the bridge of my glasses unevenly using the intermediate stop. It meant the focus and diopter setting appeared to wander a bit occasionally, which was disconcerting. Spot on now. I get a nice snap to the focus now, all of the time. :t:

David
 
typo,

I heard the PGA Classic is popular with golfers looking to spot their ball on the green. Oops! another typo. :)

Thanks for that review. Btw, what happened to Martin Fagg? Maybe we should call Scotland Yard about him. He's been missing for quite some time.

The difference in FOV btwn the Eaglet and BGA amounts to about .1*, well within allbinos +-3% margin of error. The BGAs are about an ounce heavier, perhaps due to a bit heavier rubber armoring.

Except for the different beveling on top, the Eaglet and BGA Classic appear to be identical. Most likely clones for birders on the other side of the pond.

I can understand going from a compact to these might feel more expansive, but if I went from the 8x30 EII with 8.8* (70* AFOV in pre-ISO ciphering) to a 50* AFOV in the Eaglet/BGA, I'd feel fenced in. Perhaps, as you say, the 7x helps ease the view somewhat.

I felt a bit claustrophobic last night when I was out stargazing with the 10x50 Nova (8*) and 10x42 SE (6*) after I switched from the Nova to the SE.

I don't feel that way during the day, because I'm looking for specific small targets, but while stargazing, I'm going for the "big picture" like the entire Hyades, which I can fit in the view of the Nova with plenty of room to spare so I have it "framed". With the SE, it just fits (the Hyades is 5* across). I could just barely fit both Orion's sword and belt in the FOV of the Nova, which must be an expanse of about 8*.

I also like WF bins for birding, but for 10x @ longer distances, the SE's 6* is sufficient, and they are easier to hold for longer periods than the 10x50 Nova (although if you're accosted by a robber in an alley, you definitely want the Novas with you :).

Btwn the light weight and 7x, the view through the Eaglet/BGA Classic must be steady and easy to hold for long periods. I take asthma inhalers, which can give me the shakes if I use them during the day, though most days I don't need to. A 7x bin would be useful for "extra puff" days.

Glad you are happy, that's what counts. The Eaglet seems to have a following in the states.

Having caught the EWA bug from a BF member whose name I shan't mention since he thinks I always find a way to work his name into my posts somewhere, I think I'd be happier with a Celestron 7x35 Nova with 11* FOV (with the eyecups off, 10mm ER doesn't work well with my Cro Magnon facial features).

What I don't get is why they the Eaglet/BGA cost so much? Kellner EPs are a "classic" (read "old") design and cheaper to manufacture than more complex EPs with WFs.

They also don't have dielectric coatings found on the cheaper Monarch III/5 or ED glass found in the cheaper Bushnell Legend HD.

Even after I minus the 20% VAT, the BGA Classic is still almost 500 USD (496). The Eaglet is $369 in the US. Must be more expensive because they are made in Japan whereas the aforementioned bins are made in China.


-- Frank :) Gotcha!
 
Brock.

Wish I knew what happened to Martin. He suddenly stopped posting February last year. I tried to PM him some time later and his account was closed.

At some point I've (almost ;) ) given up trying to work out why I like using one bino more than another. Yes I like sharp edges, but didn't like the Swaro EL SV. I think I like a wide view, yet haven't picked up one I've really wanted to own. I like a porro view, but find them a nuisance to carry any distance. I do know I prefer a warmer colour balance most of the day, and I enjoy a using a 7x more than an 8x. The view through the Nikon EDG 7x42 is about the nicest I've seen, but hanging 28oz round my neck is going to spoil my day …. even if I had the cash. (The Nikon has a 56* AFOV in old money but 52.2* in new.)

In the last couple of years, I suppose I've tried a lot. Something in the hundreds. Some take only seconds to dislike, others I've pondered over and gone back and tried several times. I've bought a few because they were useful, but apart from the little Bushnell I can't say I really enjoy using them. Somehow I've ended up with enjoyability at the top of my criteria list.

So I guess I narrowed the field to smaller 6.5 and 7x roofs and reverse porros. Just for fun, on a 1-10 a very personal enjoyability scale.

Vortex Diamondback 7x36..... 3
Bushnell Excursion 7x36...... 4
Pentax Papilo 6.5x21...... 5
Vortex Fury 6.5x32...... 6
Viking MD 6.5x32....... 6
Meopta Meopro 6.5x32....... 7
Bushnell Elite 7x26....... 8
Opticron Classic 7x36....... 8

Seems that wide, flat, neutral views, don't count for much when it come to enjoyability in for me. I'm sure if astro was my thing, or even if I walked less and watched more then I'd be looking at a very different lists.

David

P.S. I suspect the "64-layer Oasis prism coatings" on the Classic are dielectric coatings.
 
Last edited:
Yes, I saw it Brock.

;)

On a related note, I, too, was out stargazing briefly last night. I had a parent meeting for my boys' baseball program but stopped out on a country road just to stargaze a bit with the binoculars that I had in the car at the time. I say this simply because of your comment about feeling a bit claustrophobic when going from the Nova to the SE. In my case I had the Bushnell Excurxion 8x28 (410 foot field of view), the Sightron SII 8x32 (393 foot field of view), the Nikon 7x35 WF (488 foot field of view) and the Nikon 7x50-Early Action (378 foot field of view).

Wanna take a guess which one gave me the most satisfying view?

;)

...and which two plants are so close together right now? Was that Saturn and Venus?...or Saturn and Jupiter? I could see the moons on one through all of the bins but with varying degrees of "transparency".
 
Yes, I saw it Brock.

;)

On a related note, I, too, was out stargazing briefly last night. I had a parent meeting for my boys' baseball program but stopped out on a country road just to stargaze a bit with the binoculars that I had in the car at the time. I say this simply because of your comment about feeling a bit claustrophobic when going from the Nova to the SE. In my case I had the Bushnell Excurxion 8x28 (410 foot field of view), the Sightron SII 8x32 (393 foot field of view), the Nikon 7x35 WF (488 foot field of view) and the Nikon 7x50-Early Action (378 foot field of view).

Wanna take a guess which one gave me the most satisfying view?

;)

...and which two plants are so close together right now? Was that Saturn and Venus?...or Saturn and Jupiter? I could see the moons on one through all of the bins but with varying degrees of "transparency".

WFan,

I went out earlier to catch Venus and Jupiter before they sunk below the treeline in the west, and just got 'em. Venus was BRIGHT!

It was almost 80* today, God help us, it's only the middle of March. I think we're going to get extreme weather like Europe but in the summer.

Then I caught Mars in the east. There was a slight haze and the "seeing" was very steady. Had I not sold my scope, I would have gotten great views of the planets tonight. Hardly any twinkle in bright stars.

OTOH, here I am, with the window open and my fan next to it. Got to get the A/C in this weekend before the first Heat Wave. In fact, I'm thinking about buying a second A/C. One for each lung.

But the strange thing tonight is that I had the eyecups on the Novas and yet I could see a satisfying amount of field (it's nuts when you get hooked on WFs, even 60* starts to look "cramped"). It doesn't feel satisfying during the day w/out the cups off but it's okay at night.

Once I can drag the reclining chair, which is a bit heavy ( thick canvas jobber with built-in pillow and metal pipes), out into the field across from the house, the 10x50 Nova will probably be my favorite, but right now, holding it up to look at the ni the night sky while sitting is giving me a pain in the neck.

Ultimately, I like to buy a more lightweight FMC 10x50 WF for day and night use (no "rolling ball" please) .

65* minimum, and it must have good edges. I want it all, like Bogie and Bacall.

Any suggestions?

Btw, what does your wife think of your optical promiscuity? With the way you get tired of bins so quickly and move on to the next conquest isn't she afraid you might get tired of her too? :)

Brock
 
David,

I think somebody did tell me what happened to Martin. Nothing tragic, he's alive and well, as far as I know. I'll PM you.

For stargazing, aperture rules, I'm afraid, but with the right reclining chair or parallel mount, the weight can be managed.

But for birding where you are holding the bins out in front of you and hanging them around your neck, "lidder is bedder". Up to a point, an 8 ounce compact is TOO light for me. The DTs show up easily.

20 oz. hits the spot, provided the ergos are good. I like my 8x30 EII. Haven't tried anything that tops it for close in birding. The detail even with my incipient cataract is astounding. I was watching a male and female finch couple yesterday at the feeder, and it was like they were in my hand.

As much as I like the ergos on the much more expensive 8x32 EL, if it did not match the resolution and apparent contrast of my EII, and from Kimmo's review, the WB doesn't seem to, I can't see spending multiples more for the logo, ergos, and WP.

I'm spoiled rotten with the EIIs and SEs. I'd want a roof that could match them w/out "rolling ball" and a WHY2K price tag.

I think I'd like the 7x42 EDG very much, but I hear you about the 28 oz. weight. A lot of people say, well, just buy a bino harness. Yeah, that helps get the weight off your neck, but what about lifting them up and down all day? My 804 Audubons are 29 oz. and after a couple hours, I start feeling it in the shoulders. Maybe I'm just turning into an old fart, with arthritis, tendonitis, and other assorted itises.

As much as I really like the midsized format, there are too many cloudy days here (at least there were, we might get a drought this year), and also for the winter I need more aperture and more exit pupil. But a good quality WF 7x36 would do fine, I don't need a 7x42. Too bad Nikon has not embraced that format in its top roofs.

I like a warmer color balance too rather than completely neutral. I wonder if our eyes/perception of color are color neutral? Mine aren't now because of the cataract, but I wonder if they ever were?

Maybe it's just what I'm used to seeing with my Nikons. I think a flat light curve would seem dull to me because of the lack of color contrast.

Nature favors certain colors over others. For example, how much purple do you see in your travels? How much blue? How much green, red, and yellow?

Although I never realized before this recent discussion of the new Schott glass that optical glass has lower transmission in the longer range than in the higher range. I thought this was solely a function of the coatings.

So with this new glass and dielectric coatings and flat light transmission AR coatings, are we really getting a light curve as nature intended us to see color or is it a man made ideal?

Brock

Update: Found some info about the eyes color "bias".

"Two complementary theories of color vision are the trichromatic theory and the opponent process theory. The trichromatic theory, or Young–Helmholtz theory, proposed in the 19th century by Thomas Young and Hermann von Helmholtz, as mentioned above, states that the retina's three types of cones are preferentially sensitive to blue, green, and red. Ewald Hering proposed the opponent process theory in 1872.[4] It states that the visual system interprets color in an antagonistic way: red vs. green, blue vs. yellow, black vs. white. We now know both theories to be correct, describing different stages in visual physiology."

Ah, hah! So much for German Idealism! :)

Color contrast is more natural than a flat transmission curve.

More here
 
Last edited:
I like a warmer color balance too rather than completely neutral. I wonder if our eyes/perception of color are color neutral? Mine aren't now because of the cataract, but I wonder if they ever were?

Maybe it's just what I'm used to seeing with my Nikons. I think a flat light curve would seem dull to me because of the lack of color contrast.

Nature favors certain colors over others. For example, how much purple do you see in your travels? How much blue? How much green, red, and yellow?

Although I never realized before this recent discussion of the new Schott glass that optical glass has lower transmission in the longer range than in the higher range. I thought this was solely a function of the coatings.

So with this new glass and dielectric coatings and flat light transmission AR coatings, are we really getting a light curve as nature intended us to see color or is it a man made ideal?

Brock

Update: Found some info about the eyes color "bias".

"Two complementary theories of color vision are the trichromatic theory and the opponent process theory. The trichromatic theory, or Young–Helmholtz theory, proposed in the 19th century by Thomas Young and Hermann von Helmholtz, as mentioned above, states that the retina's three types of cones are preferentially sensitive to blue, green, and red. Ewald Hering proposed the opponent process theory in 1872.[4] It states that the visual system interprets color in an antagonistic way: red vs. green, blue vs. yellow, black vs. white. We now know both theories to be correct, describing different stages in visual physiology."

Ah, hah! So much for German Idealism! :)

Color contrast is more natural than a flat transmission curve.

More here

Brock,

I've tried to read up about colour contrast and even posted bits and pieces in the past, but any subject with 'psyco' in the title is enough to scare me. ;)

Those comparative brain pathways that sort out opposing colours are supposed to be involved with fast 'instinctive' reactions. Maybe animal from vegetable, or prey from predator. Anyway, at least I imagine I notice more birds with warm balanced pairs and feel my vision is more acute. The reality of course may be different.

There are a number of aspects that puzzle me about what we do and don't see. Why do some notice CA more than others. Indeed why don't we 'see' the CA that normally occurs in the eye? Does the brain program a biased correction? What does cone polymorphism do to perception, and preference. We shouldn't be surprised there's no consensus on this stuff. Nowt so queer as folk.8-P

David
 
Brock,

I've tried to read up about colour contrast and even posted bits and pieces in the past, but any subject with 'psyco' in the title is enough to scare me. ;)

Those comparative brain pathways that sort out opposing colours are supposed to be involved with fast 'instinctive' reactions. Maybe animal from vegetable, or prey from predator. Anyway, at least I imagine I notice more birds with warm balanced pairs and feel my vision is more acute. The reality of course may be different.

There are a number of aspects that puzzle me about what we do and don't see. Why do some notice CA more than others. Indeed why don't we 'see' the CA that normally occurs in the eye? Does the brain program a biased correction? What does cone polymorphism do to perception, and preference. We shouldn't be surprised there's no consensus on this stuff. Nowt so queer as folk.8-P

David

typo,

Ed posted a theory a while back that said a lot of what we see in the present has to do with what we've seen in the past. So whatever scientific evidence there may or may not be in defense of binoculars with higher color contrast, for some of us, it might be what we're used to. I've been a Nikon bin buyer since the early 90s, and I've grown used to their color balance.

When I read about the EDG having dielectric coatings, and knowing that the silver coatings helped with the warm bias, I was expecting a less warm color balance than my HGs, but comparing them side by side, the EDG still was "warm" thanks to the bump in the red part of the spectrum of the AR coatings, but I did notice that blues appeared deeper in the EDG.

When you look at allbinos light curves you can see why.

hypo
 

Attachments

  • Nikon 8x32 HG light curve.jpg
    Nikon 8x32 HG light curve.jpg
    48.4 KB · Views: 179
  • nik_edg10x42_tran.jpg
    nik_edg10x42_tran.jpg
    51 KB · Views: 194
Brock,

Don't know where I might have acquired a preference but it was there when I walked into a bino shop and tried my first dozen pairs even if I didn't appreciate the reason at the time.

The colours though the EDG seemed 'cleaner' than the HGL to me than the HGL. I've never seen a spectrum for the Classic or the other Opticron Japanese pairs, but my guess is they have a bit more blue than the HGL. I found an old post by Ed about the Eaglet from 2007:

"I'm not at liberty to say where I got this information, but according to my source the Eaglet measured a remarkable 92.0% average transmission across the spectrum, by comparison with 67.5% for the HHS Audubon, 83.2% for the standard Audubon, and 85.6% for the Leica 7x42. I assume that the Audubons are the most recent models shown in the Swift catalog. I don't know which series Leica he tested. I would add that by my inspection the transmission distribution was also more uniform for the Eaglet over the spectrum, staying above 80% from 430 nm to 730 nm. Very impressive! I just wish I were free to post and say more."

I don't know if the Classic would be the same, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was comparable.

David
 
Last edited:
Brock,

Don't know where I might have acquired a preference but it was there when I walked into a bino shop and tried my first dozen pairs even if I didn't appreciate the reason at the time.

The colours though the EDG seemed 'cleaner' than the HGL to me than the HGL. I've never seen a spectrum for the Classic or the other Opticron Japanese pairs, but my guess is they have a bit more blue than the HGL. I found an old post by Ed about the Eaglet from 2007:

"I'm not at liberty to say where I got this information, but according to my source the Eaglet measured a remarkable 92.0% average transmission across the spectrum, by comparison with 67.5% for the HHS Audubon, 83.2% for the standard Audubon, and 85.6% for the Leica 7x42. I assume that the Audubons are the most recent models shown in the Swift catalog. I don't know which series Leica he tested. I would add that by my inspection the transmission distribution was also more uniform for the Eaglet over the spectrum, staying above 80% from 430 nm to 730 nm. Very impressive! I just wish I were free to post and say more."

I don't know if the Classic would be the same, but I wouldn't be surprised if it was comparable.

David

Thanks for that info, missed that post or ignored it because I had already made up my mind about the Eaglet because of its narrowish AFOV.

If the light transmission never dips below 80% in the visible spectrum and averages 92%, it must peak in some region at above 92%. So even though it may have more blue than the HGL and be more like the EDG, if that peak is in the red, it will still be slightly "warm".

I suppose with the exceptional light transmission and Japanese origin (though after learning about Germany's "Made in Germany" fast and loose labeling, I'm wondering about "Made in Japan" too), I can see the justification for the price in the Eaglets despite the Kellner EPs although the Opticron's price still seems rather "dear".

The EDG's colors are cleaner because of the ED glass. Even when you're not viewing a bird in high contrast situations, the colors in a non-ED bin are a bit "muddied". The HG version, at least, has exceptional color saturation and contrast, so it's easy to overlook that until CA shows up or until you do an A/B side by side with the EDG.

In comparing the HG to the EDG, the HG held its own in terms of color and contrast, but the colors seemed a bit more "crisp" in the EDG, particularly blues and purples.

I was watching a soccer game while I was using both bins, and one team had uniforms that had blue and purple in them. In the HG, the blue and purple seemed a bit faded, like the uniforms had been washed a lot. In the EDG, the uniforms looked brand new, with the blues and the purples very vibrant, although still not as vibrant as the other teams red and yellow uniforms, which were practically day-glo in both bins.

Glad to hear confirmation of the low light transmission in the HHS. When I posted allbinos' figure of 75+/- 3% average, one HHS owner thought they must have reviewed an older model.

Why Swift's flagship roof isn't up to snuff with the Eaglet is curious. Swift is missing an opportunity to compete in the mid-tier with the HHS. Widen the FOV a degree, update the coatings and add ED glass, and they would have a very competitive product.

bp
 
I suppose with the exceptional light transmission and Japanese origin (though after learning about Germany's "Made in Germany" fast and loose labeling, I'm wondering about "Made in Japan" too), I can see the justification for the price in the Eaglets despite the Kellner EPs although the Opticron's price still seems rather "dear".

We've been told that the Classics and several others in the Opticron range are made in Japan, but there is nothing on my pair to indicate country of origin. Opticron backs it's 'Japanese' pairs with a 30 year warranty but only 5 or 10 years on their 'Chinese' made pairs. I guess we don't know for certain where the component parts come from or even where the assembly is done, but I'm satisfied it's build quality is a cut above the usual Chinese pairs on offer here.

UK prices on most stuff are higher here than the US, even allowing for the VAT. The Bushnell Legend Ultra HD sells for £300-£450 ($475-$710) over here, which I think makes the Classic seem quite reasonable at the regular £360 selling price. I actually paid a lot, lot less which makes it quite a bargain for this side of the water.

I suppose the Eaglet would be dielectric coated like the Classic, and a simple 3 lens eyepiece would help in minimising transmission losses as well.

David
 
We've been told that the Classics and several others in the Opticron range are made in Japan, but there is nothing on my pair to indicate country of origin. Opticron backs it's 'Japanese' pairs with a 30 year warranty but only 5 or 10 years on their 'Chinese' made pairs. I guess we don't know for certain where the component parts come from or even where the assembly is done, but I'm satisfied it's build quality is a cut above the usual Chinese pairs on offer here.

UK prices on most stuff are higher here than the US, even allowing for the VAT. The Bushnell Legend Ultra HD sells for £300-£450 ($475-$710) over here, which I think makes the Classic seem quite reasonable at the regular £360 selling price. I actually paid a lot, lot less which makes it quite a bargain for this side of the water.

I suppose the Eaglet would be dielectric coated like the Classic, and a simple 3 lens eyepiece would help in minimising transmission losses as well.

David

Bushnell Legend Ultra HD sells for £300-£450 ($475-$710)! $570 for an Opticron Classic BGA/Swift Eaglet?

I found a US store selling the 7x36 Eaglet for $319 (201 GBP). That's a huge difference. The photo shows the Eaglet with rubber eyecups, so this could be old stock before the "Premier" version with the twist-ups, but the ad copy is otherwise the same.

I'm surprised that UK birders can afford more than one bin. Is this why there are so many old Swift porros for sale from the UK? Brit birders hold onto their optics for decades like American hunters? At those inflated prices, I can see why they would want to. We Yanks should thank our lucky stars that we have a large market that allows discounted prices.

OTOH, we pay through the proboscis for health care and for education. So when you factor in socialized medicine and free education perhaps it's a wash, or at least it was. According to Wickedpedia "up to £9,000 per annum will be charged [for undergraduate college education in the UK] from October 2012." So it looks like the gravy train is over.

Birders with kids going to college this fall will be selling their SV ELs and buying Sightrons!
 
Warning! This thread is more than 12 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top