Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
Magnifying the passion for nature. Zeiss Victory Harpia 95. New!

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

Always used 10x but thinking about switching to 8x

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Tuesday 27th March 2018, 22:21   #51
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
BF Supporter 2018
 
bluespiderweb's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southeast PA near Philly
Posts: 467
Sure, Bill, if you can hold a 10x steady, you will get more detail in closer objects than lesser powers, and it's why it's been my favorite for a while now for that reason. Of course, it can't compete with a spotting scope of so much higher magnification, nor with your camera either, except for the detail it provides at 10x in the bins.

But recently I just discovered how much detail you can miss, if you are not holding the 10x's steady-you can miss a lot, if so. I found out that 8x can still give you a great view, and very detailed as long as you are steady (and it's easier then too), but if you can't, then there's no advantage. So sure, go for 10x if you can control it effectively-and it will show you more detail, with a larger image. Especially for subjects that aren't very close, as you would expect. Even the closer ones in 10x will make a Dove look like a Pigeon! It's up to you what you want to see, and sometimes it's detail, and sometimes it's a wider field of view, but they do intermix at times depending on their specs and how they work for you.

Not to confuse, but add, I think there is a place for all the powers of bins-you just have to use them to find what they are best at for you. I don't think I would like to be without a 10x ever, unless I get the shakes and can't take advantage of the power increase they give. There are so many good ones out there to choose from, in even the lower ranges that you deserve to have at least one to use and discover their unique attributes they lend to the view. So yes, find a 10x you love, and you'll be glad you have it!
__________________
Barry~
bluespiderweb is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Tuesday 27th March 2018, 23:17   #52
dries1
Registered User
BF Supporter 2018
 
dries1's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 1,121
Very nice pic, now I see why so many are out with cameras these days. The zoom capabilities with resolution has improved.

A.W.
dries1 is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Thursday 29th March 2018, 20:51   #53
bluespiderweb
Great Grey Looking Out
BF Supporter 2018
 
bluespiderweb's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Southeast PA near Philly
Posts: 467
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
I keep getting tempted with 10x, but have yet to pull the trigger, so have primarily a stable of 8x bins, with a few 7's, and a 6. I also have a well used pair of 15 x 50 IS Canon's that generally only come out at night..

My regular bird outing rig is an 8x bin, supplemented/augmented with a bridge camera, a Nikon p610 super zoom, which I use as a digital spotting scope when I cannot ID a distant bird with my bins. The camera weighs less than my binoculars. The image quality of extended viewing resides in the binoculars, not in the camera, btw. In that regard, a good scope would be a far superior instrument, but for a lightweight setup with a great range of useful, image stabilized magnification, it is effective. Plus its a darn good camera, if one is close enough to the bird!

I may still get a 10x, but with the camera, I'm getting roughly 25x optical magnification at the extreme end (zoom ratio is 60x), which a 10x bin doesn't really cover. I expect it will enhance viewing pleasure of closer objects a lot more than the distant ones, as odd as that may sound. Research is needed...

-Bill
That is a very nice photo Bill! But, even if you can look at it on the small screen right then, or even later in large scale on the computer, you aren't seeing it in realtime in binoculars, so if you can use 10x without too much shake, then they are worth it to have and see through, in my opinion for that in the moment sensation. I don't know how you work it out in practical terms, except to carry one or the other, and just enjoy what you have at the time for the view they provide-that makes the most sense to me. Others do carry more than one bin, but that's not my idea of lightweight travel! I'm carrying enough just with me on my feet and back, than adding excess to the load.

Sure, many are younger and stronger here, and don't mind carrying more along the way. And if that is so, then the more the merrier, and I hope you do find a 10x you love as well. Do you wear glasses, Bill?

Bruce commented recently in another post that people are going birdwatching with ONLY cameras, and looking at the digital screen after the shot to see what they saw! Digital over analogue! I can't imagine this, nor do I ever want to be there. I'm fine for in the moment reality! Sure, I'll bring a camera, but that's only for birds that stand still for more than 20 seconds! Or other flora and fauna I come across.
__________________
Barry~

Last edited by bluespiderweb : Thursday 29th March 2018 at 21:20. Reason: Bruce's comments about cameras
bluespiderweb is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 30th March 2018, 00:45   #54
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 277
Quote:
Originally Posted by bluespiderweb View Post
That is a very nice photo Bill! But, even if you can look at it on the small screen right then, or even later in large scale on the computer, you aren't seeing it in realtime in binoculars, so if you can use 10x without too much shake, then they are worth it to have and see through, in my opinion for that in the moment sensation. I don't know how you work it out in practical terms, except to carry one or the other, and just enjoy what you have at the time for the view they provide-that makes the most sense to me. Others do carry more than one bin, but that's not my idea of lightweight travel! I'm carrying enough just with me on my feet and back, than adding excess to the load.

Sure, many are younger and stronger here, and don't mind carrying more along the way. And if that is so, then the more the merrier, and I hope you do find a 10x you love as well. Do you wear glasses, Bill?

Bruce commented recently in another post that people are going birdwatching with ONLY cameras, and looking at the digital screen after the shot to see what they saw! Digital over analogue! I can't imagine this, nor do I ever want to be there. I'm fine for in the moment reality! Sure, I'll bring a camera, but that's only for birds that stand still for more than 20 seconds! Or other flora and fauna I come across.

Barry and Dries, Thanks for the kind notes and observations. Regarding carrying 2 bins, as some folks here seem to do regularly, I'm not so inclined. In addition, I don't have any plans to go birding with a camera only. I also appreciate the in the moment, eye witness, and intimate view that a binocular can provide. The naked eye, of course, can do that as well, but the binoculars can be such an extraordinary enhancement to one's eyes, and subsequent viewing pleasure.

I currently think of a 10x as an 'augmented' 8x, usually at the cost of FOV and eye relief, but this is a specs on paper based opinion. I should just get a pair and use 'em for awhile, then decide. Meanwhile, an 8x and my little bridge camera make a good, lightweight combination. And, yes, I do wear glasses.

Regarding the photo, that Bluebird was probably no more than 25 feet away. I had a great view of it with my naked eyes. So, the question was preserve an image of it, or just drink it in while it lasts. What got me was the close value of the grey bg against the intense color of the bird. In addition, I could see the raindrops on the bird and that made it even more compelling to go for the camera over the bins.

I have birded with just bins and no camera, and have found it more immersive in some sense, because I'm not interrupting my viewing to take a picture. It can be more relaxing, I would say. Also, there's some sort of magic going on where getting the bird in frame and focussed seems to make the bird fly off... an unfathomably mysterious phenomena..

But I am learning a lot about birds by taking photos of them as well, so will keep at it.

Cheers,

Bill
wdc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 30th March 2018, 01:10   #55
dries1
Registered User
BF Supporter 2018
 
dries1's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Delaware
Posts: 1,121
I say with digital replacing film, (I was sort of apprehensive at first), but now such good resolution in small mid size/priced cameras, snap away. Most of the time I capture multiple pics, but about 10-15% are keepers and it does not cost me anything save the HD memory chip, which can hold 8 gigs.

Andy W.
dries1 is online now  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 30th March 2018, 13:09   #56
14Goudvink
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: The Hague
Posts: 412
Besides offering a greater FOV 8 power bins also offer a greater depth of view, which means much less (re)focussing when chasing birds at close range. I normally use 8 power bins but have lately been using 10X and this is one important difference I noticed.

George
14Goudvink is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 30th March 2018, 14:01   #57
etc
Registered User
 
etc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Maryland
Posts: 590
I've come to realize 8.5 is the most I can comfortably handle. So it's either 8.5x42, or 8x42 or 8x50 for me.

Thinking about going from 8.5x42 EL to 8x42 Zeiss SF. Though if they introduce the 8x50 SF version, that is also very tempting.
etc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 30th March 2018, 18:14   #58
Loud Green Man
Registered User
 
Loud Green Man's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2017
Location: London
Posts: 193
For what it's worth I'm of the view if you feel the 'need' for a lower than 10 mag' set of bins best get one given of 7 power with your preffred objective diameter.

LGM
__________________
Zeiss 8X56 Night Owls. Zeiss Diavari 6-24X72. Zeiss 8X30 B/GA Dialyt SF Ranging Reticle.
Loud Green Man is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 11:40   #59
coaltit
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: derby
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hermann View Post
There are places where carrying (and using) a scope doesn't make much sense. Try one of the migration hotspots with lots of bushes and so on for instance. You need to make the ID very quickly, and often you just don't have the time to use your scope. If you don't the bird may well be gone for good. That's where a 10x works better for me. Or on long hikes in the mountains where I don't want to carry a scope and a tripod all the time.

Hermann
Reservoirs where it is totally flat viewing up to a quarter of a mile away I,ve observed wildfowl or Identified them through a spotting scope 47x60 magnification or flocks of birds out in the open as long as the birds stationary enough and clear to see a spotting scope is second to none In some circumstances, but overall I much prefer useing a 8x30 Minocular yes you may lose out to magnification That is If you can hold them steady enough in such Environments, but what the 8x loses there you,ll be pleasantly surprised what it gains in others If your fully focused and ready a 8x will capture most detail at a given time and for a few ounces or more in weight I think that price is worth haveing.

Last edited by coaltit : Tuesday 10th April 2018 at 11:49.
coaltit is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 11:48   #60
coaltit
Registered User

 
Join Date: Sep 2014
Location: derby
Posts: 720
Quote:
Originally Posted by dries1 View Post
I say with digital replacing film, (I was sort of apprehensive at first), but now such good resolution in small mid size/priced cameras, snap away. Most of the time I capture multiple pics, but about 10-15% are keepers and it does not cost me anything save the HD memory chip, which can hold 8 gigs.

Andy W.
Yes its made life a lot easier, cheaper, and convenient too Came just right for me, all the big hasselblad cameras and their Ilk where did they end up.
coaltit is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 12:53   #61
Chris223
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: somewhere
Posts: 51
Furthermore shaking depends a lot of the bino ! I was using a conquest 10X42 and a 10X42 kowa genesis these past days....I had a much more steadier view with the kowa (weight and size of the barrel i think); and it was obvious !
Chris223 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 13:03   #62
jremmons
Wildlife Biologist

 
Join Date: Jun 2013
Location: USA
Posts: 1,030
Interestingly, I recently have made the opposite switch; I originally used some higher end (B&L Elite, Swarovski EL) 10x42s, but switched to lower powers, everything from 6x to 8.5x, but after purchasing the new 10x42 Meopro HD, which have a wider FoV than some older 10x, I have found myself enjoying the increased magnification more than I remember.
jremmons is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 13:18   #63
black crow
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ashland oregon
Posts: 2,056
I've pretty much gone back to 8x. Especially since I've found a binocular in that size that gives me a wow just about every time I use them and it has a fov of 466 ft. which is wonderful.

However often when looking through them I find myself thinking "man I wish I had this in a 10x. I found in buying a ten and getting pretty good at being steady when viewing, the only thing missing is an adequate fov. That is where I hit the wall. Anything under 400 ft fov seems while not tunnel like always, very inadequate for me. I love following butterflies and bumble bees and those tiny nervous birds. I'm not really capable of doing it very well under 400 ft.

So while I have switched back to 8x I can truly say I miss the close up of the 10x. Dang! Wouldn't it be nice to be like a hawk or a buzzard and have something like a built in bino.
An eagles visual acuity us about 20/5, or 20/4; versus a humans 20/20. That means that what a person with 20/20 could see at 20 ft the eagle sees clearly at 100 ft. They have a 340 degree field of vision compared to 180 for us.

Our technology will eventually address issue and we might have eagle vision or something like it. In the meantime we are stuck with binoculars. Which is still a wonderful thing.
__________________
Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno.
black crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Tuesday 10th April 2018, 13:37   #64
Chris223
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: somewhere
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by black crow View Post
I've pretty much gone back to 8x. Especially since I've found a binocular in that size that gives me a wow just about every time I use them and it has a fov of 466 ft. which is wonderful.

However often when looking through them I find myself thinking "man I wish I had this in a 10x. I found in buying a ten and getting pretty good at being steady when viewing, the only thing missing is an adequate fov. That is where I hit the wall. Anything under 400 ft fov seems while not tunnel like always, very inadequate for me. I love following butterflies and bumble bees and those tiny nervous birds. I'm not really capable of doing it very well under 400 ft.

So while I have switched back to 8x I can truly say I miss the close up of the 10x. Dang! Wouldn't it be nice to be like a hawk or a buzzard and have something like a built in bino.
An eagles visual acuity us about 20/5, or 20/4; versus a humans 20/20. That means that what a person with 20/20 could see at 20 ft the eagle sees clearly at 100 ft. They have a 340 degree field of vision compared to 180 for us.

Our technology will eventually address issue and we might have eagle vision or something like it. In the meantime we are stuck with binoculars. Which is still a wonderful thing.

Mark Zuckerberg and "his friends" are working for that......
Chris223 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 00:50   #65
Patudo
Registered User

 
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: London
Posts: 270
The correct answer (for every binomaniac) is of course to have both! I've found the extra magnification of 10x very worthwhile when scanning for distant targets, especially where you can brace your elbows on your knees or some convenient structure, but sometimes the extra mag isn't necessary and the wider field of view, depth of field and greater steadiness of an 8x really come into their own. Get both I say! Although if you can only justify one the 8.5x42 EL of any vintage deserves serious consideration.
Patudo is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 06:27   #66
adhoc
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Anon.
Posts: 445
Chris223,
In post #61 there seems to be a slip in
the Kowa's model name or obj. diam.

Black crow,
There are currently in 10x
very good optics with these specs. and FoVs:
10x42 6.9 deg.
Nikon Monarch-HG
10x32 6.9 deg.
Meopta MeoStar
Swarovski EL
Zeiss Victory
10x33 6.8 deg.
Kowa Genesis
10x32 6.7 deg.
Leica Ultravid
Leica Trinovid
Zeiss Conquest.
adhoc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 09:20   #67
Chris223
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2018
Location: somewhere
Posts: 51
Quote:
Originally Posted by adhoc View Post
Chris223,
In post #61 there seems to be a slip in
the Kowa's model name or obj. diam.

Black crow,
There are currently in 10x
very good optics with these specs. and FoVs:
10x42 6.9 deg.
Nikon Monarch-HG
10x32 6.9 deg.
Meopta MeoStar
Swarovski EL
Zeiss Victory
10x33 6.8 deg.
Kowa Genesis
10x32 6.7 deg.
Leica Ultravid
Leica Trinovid
Zeiss Conquest.
10.5X44
Chris223 is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 09:54   #68
Winterdune
Registered User

 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Norfolk, UK
Posts: 898
Quote:
Originally Posted by Patudo View Post
The correct answer (for every binomaniac) is of course to have both!
Indeed but I can't afford that option! I've been birding in Iceland this week with my wife's 8x30s as my 10x42s are back with Swarovski at the moment and I don't think I have missed the extra power, and have definitely enjoyed the more stable view in the wind. I'm going to check out the 8.5s as possibly the best compromise.
Thanks for all the advice everyone.
Sean
Winterdune is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 18:15   #69
[email protected]
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jul 2005
Location: Colorado
Posts: 1,467
Quote:
Originally Posted by black crow View Post
I've pretty much gone back to 8x. Especially since I've found a binocular in that size that gives me a wow just about every time I use them and it has a fov of 466 ft. which is wonderful.

However often when looking through them I find myself thinking "man I wish I had this in a 10x. I found in buying a ten and getting pretty good at being steady when viewing, the only thing missing is an adequate fov. That is where I hit the wall. Anything under 400 ft fov seems while not tunnel like always, very inadequate for me. I love following butterflies and bumble bees and those tiny nervous birds. I'm not really capable of doing it very well under 400 ft.

So while I have switched back to 8x I can truly say I miss the close up of the 10x. Dang! Wouldn't it be nice to be like a hawk or a buzzard and have something like a built in bino.
An eagles visual acuity us about 20/5, or 20/4; versus a humans 20/20. That means that what a person with 20/20 could see at 20 ft the eagle sees clearly at 100 ft. They have a 340 degree field of vision compared to 180 for us.

Our technology will eventually address issue and we might have eagle vision or something like it. In the meantime we are stuck with binoculars. Which is still a wonderful thing.
Here some interesting information on Eagle Vision. An eagle can see an ant from a 10 story building. An Eagle doesn't need binoculars. They are working on a Laser Surgery that would correct our eyes to 20/10 which would be between an eagle and human eyesight.

https://www.livescience.com/18658-hu...le-vision.html
denco@comcast.n is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 18:44   #70
black crow
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ashland oregon
Posts: 2,056
That's where I got my information for that post but thanks, we're on the same wave or wing length.

I'm in need of a little more than just new eyes. I hope they can give me whole new reboot.
__________________
Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno.
black crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 18:52   #71
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 8,083
Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post

Here some interesting information on Eagle Vision. An eagle can see an ant from a 10 story building.
Yes but can it identify the ant down to species level?

Lee
Troubador is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th April 2018, 19:07   #72
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,473
Lee, post 71,
Yes they can, since they watch the ants legs.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 14th April 2018, 19:36   #73
Canip
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jun 2015
Location: Nordschweiz
Posts: 369
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Lee, post 71,
Yes they can, since they watch the ants legs.
Gijs van Ginkel
I think I read somewhere that ants don’t like eagles watching their legs, so when they realize they are watched by an eagle, they move their legs really fast, making the eagle feel all dizzy !

I hope I remember that correctly.

Last edited by Canip : Saturday 14th April 2018 at 20:01.
Canip is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Saturday 14th April 2018, 21:38   #74
Theo98
Eurasian Goldfinch
BF Supporter 2018
 
Theo98's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: SE La
Posts: 938
Talking

Quote:
Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
An eagle can see an ant from a 10 story building.
I once saw an ant from a 10 story building balconey, without binoculars!

Poor little feller, couldn't handle my writing pad when I set it on the table...

Ted
__________________
Seeing is Believing ...Believing without Seeing is...FAITH!
Theo98 is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2018 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Saturday 14th April 2018, 21:45   #75
black crow
Registered User

 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: ashland oregon
Posts: 2,056
I had two aunts but the're long dead. Why are we talking about this?
__________________
Beneath the civilized veneer, man remains the supreme predator. Cursed with what he believes is understanding, his true soul blossoms godlike in the heart of the nuclear inferno.
black crow is offline  
Reply With Quote
Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Switching feeders franzsolo Hummingbirds 3 Saturday 19th December 2015 16:07
Switching systems squidge Micro Four Thirds 4/3 Photography 21 Friday 27th February 2015 13:12
Switching from Panasonic to SONY Paul Tavares Panasonic 9 Sunday 30th November 2014 02:06
PC switching off without warning The gaffer Computers, Birding Software And The Internet 1 Wednesday 6th January 2010 16:31
Desk top switching on problem help please. Cashie Computers, Birding Software And The Internet 14 Thursday 9th August 2007 17:55

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.23945999 seconds with 40 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 04:47.