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Camera advice needed please!

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Old Sunday 15th April 2018, 16:58   #26
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
Chosun, you wrote

Numbers for d7200 pixel pitch: 3.92 microns
for my Pana g85 pixel pitch: 3.75 microns
The advantage for nikon: 4%, hardly earth-shattering.

I am not sure who made the sensor in my camera, but I can directly compare with an older model, and there is about a 1.5 iso step improvement in usable sensitivity for similar noise levels when compared to the GH2 I had in the past. [When processing from RAW using my preferred processing software]

Niels
Niels,

That really doesn't tell the entire story. There's a fairly noticeable difference in IQ.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...01122090576015
The DR figures show a much bigger difference. Check out the graphs on:
www.photonstophotos.net
www.Dxomark.com

The APS-C D7200 shows from 2 to 1 stop of advantage, and it's a higher resolution sensor to boot.

It's quite interesting to check out the data on those two sites - though they don't always agree !

There's a lot of development in the m43 world, and the sensors are indeed improving as the Olympus OM-D EM-1 MkII shows. The Nikon D7200 sensor is getting on for 4 years old now. APS-C seems to be developing slower - the similar several years old Samsung NX-1 28MP BSI-CMOS sensor has still not been bettered yet .....



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Old Monday 16th April 2018, 19:18   #27
thomasclark1985
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First session with the FZ82

Here are a couple of photos taken with the FZ82 on my first time out with it, If its of any interest to you. They were all taken in auto mode, as Im not sure which mode is best to use, and then just cropped using screenshot on my iPhone! As I hear thats how all the pros do it! 😉

The Raven was about 40m away (I think you can still see a chunk of flesh on its bill from the lamb it was eating before I walked past!), Blue Tit 10m and Wheatear 30m.

Admittedly not the greatest quality, but once I get a bit more photography knowledge Im sure theyll get better. But they beat my binoculars for long distance ID anyways.

Thanks again,

Tom
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Old Friday 20th April 2018, 17:59   #28
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thomasclark1985:

I won't get knee-deep in the "which camera is better for what purpose" because...as you can see it gets contentious really quickly around these parts. What works for you will require alot of self-awareness of your needs plus your budget plus alot of research and may not match anything anyone says here in this thread, even me.

If you decide to go down the road for consumer bridge cameras, then the SX60 has served me well. You can look at my gallery and are welcome to ask me questions. I also use an RX100 Mk III for closer-in photos. I'm on a tight budget so I generally research to death (often takes months) and make many compromises quite knowingly. One person's acceptable compromise is another person's high priority.

For reference, my girlfriend has a D700 + the Nikkor 70-300 lens and...no amount of magic makes 300mm = 1300+mm (we've tried). I have quality/speed envy of her camera, she has range envy of my camera (even if mine requires far more post processing).

If budget were no object, I'd likely get into m43; it's a good way to have the DSLR experience without all the size and weight and certainly very good quality. I did look into it, but getting the reach I wanted out of m43 was not possible at the time (or if it was, far outside my budget). I was favoring the Olympus line.
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Old Friday 20th April 2018, 19:19   #29
Jim M.
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
There's a fairly noticeable difference in IQ.
https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/ima...01122090576015
I've been playing around a bit with the DP Review image comparison tool. My results make the em1 mk ii comparison look better (mostly because the DSLR images look noisier) than Chosun's link above. But I can't link directly; here's the link where you can do your own comparisons:

https://www.dpreview.com/reviews/oly...e-m1-mark-ii/8

More importantly, the crop being compared is seriously magnified beyond what you'd do in actual photography. So it's showing differences that are a concern for pixel peepers, but not real world photographers. Moreover, Niels point was that a cropped DSLR image won't be much better than an uncropped m4/3 image. The comparison is showing differences at what look to be the same level of cropping.

In any event, these comparisons aren't exact, because they are taken with different lenses, among other things.
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Old Saturday 21st April 2018, 01:16   #30
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One really strange observation: when I clicked Chosun's link the other day, the two m4/3 images looked high exposure/low contrast and low vibrance compared to the two dSLR images. When I clicked today, it looked completely different. At this time I do not know what to think, except that a link that looks different from day to day is more or less worthless.

Niels
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Old Saturday 21st April 2018, 01:29   #31
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
One really strange observation: when I clicked Chosun's link the other day, the two m4/3 images looked high exposure/low contrast and low vibrance compared to the two dSLR images. When I clicked today, it looked completely different. At this time I do not know what to think, except that a link that looks different from day to day is more or less worthless.

Niels
DPReview is owned by Amazon, so hopefully they value their reputation.
That said, screw-ups are not unusual in this space, there are just too many links between here and getting to the appropriate photo.
That is why there is value in checking several sites. Fortunately Europe has several options.
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Old Sunday 22nd April 2018, 09:26   #32
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Go to a store and pick them up and use them. See which feels better in your hands, which system makes sense to you, and let that be your guide. Also, consider Sony products.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 10:37   #33
Chosun Juan
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Quote:
Originally Posted by njlarsen View Post
One really strange observation: when I clicked Chosun's link the other day, the two m4/3 images looked high exposure/low contrast and low vibrance compared to the two dSLR images. When I clicked today, it looked completely different. At this time I do not know what to think, except that a link that looks different from day to day is more or less worthless.

Niels
Niels,

With that sample imaging tool I have noticed that you need to make sure that all the ISO levels of the cameras you are comparing are the same and refreshed.

Also they are displayed as jpegs, and I'm not too certain whether DPReview converts them themselves from raw via some app, or uses each individual cameras jpegs engines direct. I'm sure they detail the specifics somewhere, or would respond with an answer if you ask them directly via email.

The files are available as RAW should you wish to process them via your normal work flow before a detailed comparison.

Just some possible explanations for any variations seen - there may be others ..... hope that helps.



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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 12:02   #34
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thomasclark1985 View Post
Here are a couple of photos taken with the FZ82 on my first time out with it, If its of any interest to you. They were all taken in auto mode, as Im not sure which mode is best to use, and then just cropped using screenshot on my iPhone! As I hear thats how all the pros do it! 😉

The Raven was about 40m away (I think you can still see a chunk of flesh on its bill from the lamb it was eating before I walked past!), Blue Tit 10m and Wheatear 30m.

Admittedly not the greatest quality, but once I get a bit more photography knowledge Im sure theyll get better. But they beat my binoculars for long distance ID anyways.

Thanks again,

Tom
The Panasonic FZ82 is an excellent camera for birders. Your photo of a raven is better than anything I've ever shot of that species. So far I've only met ravens in flight.

The FZ82 resembles in many respects the Canon SX50 which I used for many years. A great tool for stationary birds, IDying and observation. In threads like this one the discussion often meanders to "best IQ", BIF etc. Today I carry a 1kg camera around, which is officially "better" than the SX50 and can shoot BIF. But from many species I've shot the best photo with the 560g SX50.

Have fun with the FZ82, and happy birding.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 16:05   #35
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
Also they are displayed as jpegs, and I'm not too certain whether DPReview converts them themselves from raw via some app, or uses each individual cameras jpegs engines direct. I'm sure they detail the specifics somewhere, or would respond with an answer if you ask them directly via email.

The files are available as RAW should you wish to process them via your normal work flow before a detailed comparison.

Just some possible explanations for any variations seen - there may be others ..... hope that helps.
To make matters worse, most people shouldn't trust their monitors. Raise your hand if you're using a color-calibrated display; something like an Eizo with one built-in, or a nicer NEC or Eizo using a Datacolor Spyder or X-rite i1.

Or even better, you know how to "do it by the numbers"; raise your hand if you're a color separator or other profession along those lines. In which case, the screen matters less for the post-production.

DPReview may be spot on or not (not my area of expertise) but unless you've gone out of your way to limit the variables on your local machine, any on-screen comparison has to be taken with a grain of salt.

I often have to remind myself of this when reviewing the Gallery here. Some photos look very sharp and well composed, and obviously nice equipment was used, so I can only assume they are "great photos," but the color and tonality looks off or even amateurish. Or the photo hits all the right checkboxes but is blurry or has compression artifacts. My mental conclusion: they adjusted the photo by eye on their screen and their screen isn't set-up properly, they resized it improperly, etc. I prefer to give the benefit of the doubt to the operator's skill and assume it's perfect on their end.

You kinda have to trust the reviewers at that point; whatever commentary they are making is hopefully before the browser made it's changes to the image and your screen changed it further. "Looked correct on their end."
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