Uganda Swallow (Queen Liz NP, Nov '19) (1 Viewer)

Hi Guys
Is there enough here to distinguish between Mosque and Red-rumped? There were 2x Lesser Striped swallows collecting mud here too.
Cheers, Tim

Do take a look at photos but I would say Mosque: Red-rumped in the SA book is drawn to have a pale area above the dark lore which your photo does not show and which the drawing of MS doesn't have

Niels

The undertail coverts appear to be black/blue which would make it Red-rumped according to the books; Mosque would be red all the way down.

Hi Niels Thanks for the quick response.
Is the SA book you refer to the SASOL book? I took the Helm East Africa on the trip but I have the SASOL too. The photos for both spp on eBird suggest a pale patch above dark lores is not a distinguishing feature.
On my pic there is a sharp divide between the pale lower belly and the dark vent. This is suggested in the Helm guide but is not conclusive in the pix on eBird.

Hi Mac
You helped me with a flycatcher from Hokkaido last year.
Just saw your post and you saw what I saw but the pix I can find for the 2 spp don't seem so conclusive.
Cheers, Tim

The book I was referring to was the SASOL. I do not have a more local book to where you took this image. I have not been able to find a truly African photo of RrSw, but those photos I could find were not nearly as rufous on the underside as this one.

Birds of the World online does not mention any black on the undertail coverts of MoSw. They say the color become darker as one goes to the rear. That could confound it when there also is shadow on the same area.

Niels

Well, I looked on Bird Forum Opus and there is a picture of a C. d. erythropygia which the caption says has reduced dark undertail coverts compared with European birds. But this is in India, and they don't have an alternative confusion species like Mosque Swallow.

I think in Africa it's one of those cases where if you can see the dark undertail coverts, then you're good for Red-rumped. If you can clearly see the red undertail coverts, then it should be Mosque. But it may be the angle of view doesn't let you see clearly.

As for the other colouration - the depth of the red on these birds varies with the seasons, I think, so I'm not sure how reliable (pale versus reddish) they are.

I suspect there are quite a few mis-identified birds of both species floating around on the internet.

My problem is that I don't have any vaguely decent photos which show a Mosque Swallow. But I attach a photo of what I ID'd as Red-rumped Swallow from Ngorongoro in January a couple of years ago. In my opinion the undertail coverts are dark (I don't remember whether I asked for BF help with the ID or just trusted my own judgement). And the underside also seems plenty rufous, pace Niels.

As well as the African birds, I attach a few photos of the japonica ssp just for interest. They were taken in Japan near my house in Nara

You can see that the dark undertail is clear, but not all that long. Above that but below the streaked breast, there is a reddish (but sometimes pale) region which joins around with the red rump to make a band.

The second Japan photo shows a similar sitting bird.

On Opus someone says that 'it looks like the tail is glued on' because the black undertail joins with the black uppertail to make a neat circle, above which is the red/pale underparts which join with the red/pale (seasonal and maybe older vs younger birds) rump to make another perfect ring. In my fourth picture, you can see this feature reasonably well, I think.

Just for discussion purposes, my fifth picture shows a bird with the tail expanded, which seems to make it look as though the bird has pale undertail coverts. Maybe there is some variation, but I still think if you have the dark undertail coverts, you're good for Red-rumped.

Thanks Mac. Well put. I camped in Ngorongoro for a couple of nights in 1981 and thought it was the best place I had ever been.

As MacNara says, it's a 100% Red-rumped. The black undertail coverts (not a photo effect on the OP photo) are diagnostic (Mosque have pale utc).

Greyghost1 said:

I camped in Ngorongoro for a couple of nights in 1981 and thought it was the best place I had ever been.

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Japan has a week+ holiday called 'Golden Week' at the end of April and first week of May, and we would probably have gone to Africa again (it would have been our tenth trip, all just over a week, as that's all we can get until my wife retires).

Now, I wonder when we'll be able to go again?

And more than that, I feel for the wonderful welcoming staff of the tourism industry (hotels and camps, guides, shops) in various African countries we have visited, whose lives will be devastated without income over a long shutdown.

An alternative holiday for us would be Jetstar to Cairns direct from our local airport, and a couple of days on the Barrier Reef, and a few days in the Atherton Tableland area, or other areas of natural beauty in the area which we have done four or five times. But we can't do that either.

I wonder what is happening to the mostly short-contract young foreign travellers doing most of the work there (except on the boats, we met very few Australians, and half of those turned out to be Kiwis)? No job, and no way to get home. Or did they all get out early?

Hope you are OK there yourself.

So, it looks like this year Golden Week will be at home with walks to the huge park near our house, unless Japan has a lockdown, too.

RafaelMatias said:

As MacNara says, it's a 100% Red-rumped. The black undertail coverts (not a photo effect on the OP photo) are diagnostic (Mosque have pale utc).

Click to expand...

Agree.

And more than that, I feel for the wonderful welcoming staff of the tourism industry (hotels and camps, guides, shops) in various African countries we have visited, whose lives will be devastated without income over a long shutdown.

Click to expand...

Loss of income is a huge issue there and in a lot of other places.

Niels