• Welcome to BirdForum, the internet's largest birding community with thousands of members from all over the world. The forums are dedicated to wild birds, birding, binoculars and equipment and all that goes with it.

    Please register for an account to take part in the discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.
ZEISS DTI thermal imaging cameras. For more discoveries at night, and during the day.

Have Nikon given up competing with the big three? (1 Viewer)

Dorian Gray

Well-known member
I ask because it's been years since they did anything significant in binoculars.

The hallowed SE is optically excellent but you're out of luck unless you want 8, 10 or 12x power with an exit pupil around 4 mm. None of them are waterproof, they're of less than bombproof toughness, and the eyecups are those distasteful fold-down rubber jobs. All things considered, the SE is the kind of binocular one feels duty-bound to recommend to others, but that one doesn't personally own. ;)

The E2 series may or may not be discontinued depending on which of Nikon's various and sundry websites one consults, and is anyway very limited in choice of power and objective diameter. The E2s also lack modern refinements such as water resistance and adjustable eyecups, although the price compensates a little for these hardships (though most roof-prism binoculars at the same price do have these features). But the severe eye relief must seriously dampen their appeal.

We might then surmise that Nikon have abandoned their Porro attack, were it not for the lamentable state of their roof-prism line. The 32 and 42 mm HG L DCF binoculars are well-rounded products, but not brilliant enough to compete on an equal footing with the Ultravids and ELs and Victory FLs of this world. They are optically good, but Nikon are capable of better, in my opinion. They are lighter than the HG DCF models they replaced but not light enough to get noticed as "lightweight" binoculars, and they look a little homely. Critically, they still don't have dielectric mirror coatings on the reflecting surfaces of the roof prisms, using instead the traditional silver coatings. Silver coatings have lower reflectivity (by several percent) than dielectrics in the visible spectrum, and they also reflect red light more efficiently than blue, leading to a slight colour imbalance. Even though this doesn't greatly reduce the overall brightness of the binocular, the knowledge of it must affect Nikon's popularity.

The Sporter I was pretty decent at its close-out price, but that low price was there to shift an overly heavy binocular that lacked water resistance and phase-corrected prisms. The Sporter I suffered from neglect, which is what seems to be happening to the whole binocular range.

I suppose a bright point might be the Monarch line, which seems to be a pretty good value for money. But at the high end I think Nikon need to act fairly soon if they want to preserve their binocular market in the face of increasing competition from everyone, including relative newcomers like Kowa.
 
They don't have to...

I have to disagree with your comments about the HG (L) DCF's.

Whilst abstract technical-specification comparisons might well show the over-hyped, over-priced 'Ultravids and ELs and Victory FLs' to be optically superior 'on paper', there are thousands of HG users out there who know that unless you are conducting laboratory grade tests on resolution charts, and magnifying the results 30-fold, these bins are every bit the equal of the 'big three's' top end lines, at many hundreds of pounds less than their cost. Its all about performance in the field...and how natural, easy and pleasing on the eye the view afforded is.

Still...best not shout it out too loudly, or the already scarce supply of pre-owned HG's will dry up completely...I mean, how often do they come up on Fleabay compared to the seemingly endless supply of people upgrading their Leicas, Swaros or Zeiss's?
 
I ask because it's been years since they did anything significant in binoculars.

No, I doubt it. Nikon has a history of being slow and deliberate with photography and sports optics product releases, especially at the top end. When they do come out with something new at the top it usually represents a significant advance over the previous model.

Nikon's top roof prism prior to the Venturer line was the 8x40 Classic Eagle, a dim, non phase corrected binocular with an exceptioally flat field. To my eye, it significantly outperformed its Leica and Zeiss competitors, but that changed when the other companies came out with phase coating and Leica introduced the Ultra/Trinovid models. Subsequently, Nikon eventually released the Superior E line. It was quite a long while before the Venturer line (Nikon's first phase coated roofs) came out, but when they did they set new standards for flat field, close focus, eye relief, and ergonomics. The EII (my candidate for best bino for price of all time) came out later, were not aggressively marketed, and unfortunately, received little attention.

The Venturers are still fantastically good optics, and from what I see, they appear to sell many more units than do Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss combined. Given that their total performnce is for all practical purposes as good or better than the others, and they cost 1/2-2/3 as much, I think they still have a winning product. The Superior E have become a specialty product at a relatively high price, probably as an inevitable outcome of porros being shunned by most buyers. Meanwhile, Nikon also has much of the mid-priced market locked up with its Monarch and Action EX lines.

--AP
 
Hi

My guess is that we will see some kind of Nikon high end model going the way of ED glass at some point and perhaps rain shedding coatings like Zeiss and a few others
I own Nikon SE and E11 porros and can partially agree regarding the old fashioned elements ie eye cups and design etc but honestly the image itself just stands up time and time again to so many top end roofs that the inevitable sense for me is i am always a tad disappointed when trying out a new "super bin"
I believe the waterproof version with twisty eyecups of either the SE or E11 would have been formidable had it made it to the market but roof prism binoculars are where the commerce mainly lies now for optics companies
The Nikon HG and HGL roofs both 8 x and 10 x which i have tried on several occassions are imho so very very close to the top marques that its just a matter of preference, ergonomics and how much someone feels they can pay that dictates whether a Nikon Leica,Swaro,Zeiss is purchased
Another very much emerging player these days are the Chinese sourced upper end models
Time was when these would have raised a smile from discerning optics fans but not any more i beleive
Coatings and quality of build are on the up from China every day and soon the "difference" between these models and Japanese or Euro products may become perception rather than fact

At least arguably we all benefit at some point as technology advances

Back to topic though and a final word on the Nikon HG these are often touted as superior to the "Superior" SE but my eyes have always told me the SE has the edge albeit by a tad
Trouble is the HG is such a tempting package with its solid build and water proof benefit
Nikon probably realise the commercials lie along this path and the HG imho is amongst a handful of models currently out there that delivers a great image with few compromises

Regards
RichT
 
I hear through the grapevine that Nikon will introduce new high end binoculars by the summer and that possibly prototypes will be demonstrated at the "Shot Show" in early February.
 
The E2 series may or may not be discontinued depending on which of Nikon's various and sundry websites one consults, and is anyway very limited in choice of power and objective diameter. The E2s also lack modern refinements such as water resistance and adjustable eyecups, although the price compensates a little for these hardships (though most roof-prism binoculars at the same price do have these features). But the severe eye relief must seriously dampen their appeal.
Mr. Gray, Sir, you are a Bounder! Name your second and choose your weapons....my new (Santa-supplied) EII's are my favourite bins of all time, overtaking my EL's (when it's not raining). I call them "Betsy".:t:
 
I have a FSIII ED and love it--I can take it anywhere and all day long with a CF tripod and the view is great, but the zoom eyepiece at least, which was once state of the art, no longer is. I'm hanging on for their replacement! I've been using the 30xWF eyepiece more and more.

The binos are great, with many features that I love, but it would be good if they followed current trends. Less CA, better color balance and a little brighter, along with the already flat field, good contrast and ER, with a no-fault transferable warranty sounds like a winner to me--especially if at a 20% discount to S-L-Z.
 
i donot mind Nikon for being old and cheap. But it is big surprise when Japan makers of all things usually want to have a top product to rival world best.
Here we got lot of Jap stuff more than blokes in north hemisfere and we close to nippon/Chinese/Taiwan makers places. Lots far eastern cars here and EU stuff look pretty silly alongside it. Only fool buying expensive-to-run inferior Audi/vw/porsche or italian/french self-destruct cars here. But japan not neccesarily favourite, just very cheap and more relible easy for parts and fixing. And all of them make one flag-ship product, like Subaru imprezza or Mitzi evolution or Honda nsx. Gives cred to rest of range for us ordinary iwi.
But Nikon dont do this. All their binocular cheapy not so impressive. For me is good thing becuse I only afford up to $200nz, so it not matter about $4000 Ulrtavids and stuff. But still think Nikon in danger of becuming 'third world' rated maker if not careful, maybe. Is it time they going to flex their muscles and get some mana back?
Rewi
 
Having recently got my Nikon EII binos, Rewi, I agree with you. Old-style and cheap they may be, but the view is as good as my Swaros. In fact, a little brighter, I think. Problem is, they're discontinued, and even Nikon substitutes are a lot more expensive. I also use Nikon fieldscopes now (used to use a Swaro), I prefer them to the European stuff that's sold at a huge premium even in Europe....so it's not just distance from the market that's making them expensive in NZ! Best Wishes.
 
Having recently got my Nikon EII binos, Rewi, I agree with you. Old-style and cheap they may be, but the view is as good as my Swaros. In fact, a little brighter, I think. Problem is, they're discontinued, and even Nikon substitutes are a lot more expensive. I also use Nikon fieldscopes now (used to use a Swaro), I prefer them to the European stuff that's sold at a huge premium even in Europe....so it's not just distance from the market that's making them expensive in NZ! Best Wishes.

Are they discontinued in europe?

http://www.warehouseexpress.com/?/binsandscopes/binoculars/nikon.html#e2

Although at that price they are twice as expensive as in the US when they were available

http://www.thebestthings.com/binoculars/etwo830.htm

although I seem to remember some outlets had them at $220-240.
 
Last edited:
They're not listed on Nikons UK site so I guess you're right.

http://www.europe-nikon.com/family/en_GB/categories/broad/319.html

Get one while you can would be my advice, even at double the US price.

Alas, the EII's haven't been sold in the US for a number of years. I'm glad I have both models. The SE's are still available here. I have the 10x. I understand the EII's are still sold in Japan where they are very popular.

Visiting Tokyo in the future?

Cordially,
Bob
 
Last edited:
Hi Bob

I also have both 8 x and 10 x E11's and the 10 x SE
They are all right up there optically with just about anything available
I have been fortunate in purchasing one of my E11 models new when on hols in US but even at the double UK price they represent fine value
I actually prefer my 10 x E11's in some viewing senses to my SE's mainly just for the pure ease of use with eye placement
The SE does however display a near "nirvanic" image when centred on the object without having to do too much quick panning

Regards
RichT
 
I think it's high time Nikon started subsidising either us personally, or BF, given the amount of endorsement we're giving them here! (I'd gladly forego filthy lucre if they'd just reward me with a spare pair of EII's.....;))
 
Last Year's Man said:
...these bins are every bit the equal of the 'big three's' top end lines, at many hundreds of pounds less than their cost.
Why are they hundreds of pounds cheaper then? ;) Presumably because Nikon can make more profit selling them at that price than they would by selling fewer binoculars at prices equal to the top competition. It would seem that Nikon do not believe their own products are as good as their competitors, or surely they'd price them accordingly.

I may have conveyed the impression that I actively dislike Nikon binoculars, which is not the case at all. I've had a soft spot for the Nikon brand ever since I fell in love with my first FM2 camera. Which is partly why I'd like to see more life in their binocular range.

Alexis Powell said:
they appear to sell many more units than do Leica, Swarovski, and Zeiss combined
Really? That's not my anecdotal experience at all. Does anyone have sales figures?

Robert / Seattle said:
Can't speak for the binoculars, but they compete quite well at the upper level with their ED scopes, wouldn't you say?
Quite possibly, but I know very little about the scopes.

Good to hear you love your E2s, Sancho, but that kind of binocular (sublime optical quality, but apparently at the cost of water resistance, ergonomics, size, eye relief, ruggedness and frankly sex appeal) doesn't intrigue me anymore. I want to see Nikon pulling out all the stops and delivering a High Grade roof-prism model with Zeiss-like CA performance and Nikon's traditional bombproof mechanics.

Thanks for the replies everyone, and sorry for taking so long to get back to you. I've been moving house.
 
I want to see Nikon pulling out all the stops and delivering a High Grade roof-prism model with Zeiss-like CA performance and Nikon's traditional bombproof mechanics.
How bombproof are they though? I've had a pair of HG/LX 8x32s for two years now and been very pleased with them indeed but I've heard from three people on this forum, and one friend of a friend, that the focussing mechanism has frozen up and rendered them useless. I now carry a spare pair of compacts on important trips.

Is it coincidence that these reports have all been Nikons and do other top makes also fail catastrophically from time to time like this?
 
Warning! This thread is more than 16 years ago old.
It's likely that no further discussion is required, in which case we recommend starting a new thread. If however you feel your response is required you can still do so.

Users who are viewing this thread

Back
Top