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Digi scoping... (1 Viewer)

JennyWren

Well-known member
Hi All,


Glad to see there's a few more of us in here now... and just maybe somebody can help me?

I want to get into digi scoping but I really don't have a clue where to start! Can any of you members out there give me some advice on what I would need? ???

Is it possible to get started on a limited budget? (if so... what would you call limited?)

At the moment I have a canon E05 IX7 and a telescopic lense, but on looking at some of your shots in the gallery..... WOW!!!
 
Hi Jenny,
I tried to get into digiscoping on a budget too, but lucked out. From my experience and research, it isn't even worth considering unless you can lay out big bucks.
To get any sort of reasonable results you need a scope with high quality glass in it, by which I mean fluorite lenses. The toop of the range Kowa and Swarski scopes are the ones to look at. I have tried with a Kowa 611 which is good enough for normal use but not digiscoping.
The scope then ideally needs to be used with a decent digital camera, preferably one with a small lens aperture, which is why the Nikon 900 range is so popular.
I don't know whether you've heard of Andy Bright, I have a few contacts with him and I'd say he is pretty much at the top when it comes to bird digiscoping worldwied, not just in the UK. In next months Birdwatch magazine he starts a series of seven articles about this subject.
Here is a link to his site where you'll find a fair bit of infomation
http://digiscopingukbirds.homestead.com/ - If you find a better site, let me know as I'm always willing to find out more.
I've tried another approach through using a digital camera and supplementary lenses which has given some decent results. The cost is far less than true digiscoping and the results almost as good provided you can get a little nearer to the birds. I posted a couple of shots in the gallery.
 
Hi Ian & Kevin,


Thank you for your help on this subject, I'll take into account what you've both said! :)

It always helps to have somebody else's opinion when you're thinking about purchasing something you don't know a great deal about!

I find that if you just walk into a store and tell the assistants what you're after... they tend to fob you of with what they think will be fine, when really they have very little... or no knowledge at all about these things! :(


Thanx again for the info,

JennyWren :)
 
Digiscoping needn't cost a fortune (depends what your idea of a fortune is).....I'm reluctant to advise buying a 2nd hand digital camera, but it's an option.
More importantly is the huge amount of 2nd hand scopes available in this country....half of my pics on my website were taken with an old Kowa TSN4 that cost £300 (including 30x WA and Slik 'pod/head). European £1K+optics aren't compulsory. Try Loot or Ebay (U.K) first, then think about the birding optics shops that advertise in the birding mags....they have a large range of 2nd hand scopes.
Andy B
 
Hi Kevin,
You must have posted at the same time as me ;-)
The Paul Doherty vid (Bill Oddie's video guide to birdwatching)isn't aimed at digiscopers....just general birdwatching for novices, featuring all sorts of bird related topics (including a small section by myself that explains the most basic aspects).
I have mentioned the idea of a dedicated video/dvd with another chap (that many digiscopers will know), we'll be discussing it in greater detail after the Birdfair.
I'll give you a ring at the weekend, Kevin....just to confirm details.
Regards,
Andy B
 
Regards Kevins comments above, I hope that Andy doesn't mind me mentioning it as I doubt he will himself, but Andy Bright is authoring a series of articles on Digiscoping which will be appearing in the 'Birdwatch' magazine from next months issue for I think seven articles, testing out various equipment and giving his assessment of it.
I'm sure the articles will be very interesting and informative as obviously Andy has several years experience in this field.

BTW I have no commercial interest in providng this information.
 
I think I may have made a horrendous mistake when I bought my Digital Camera.

It's the Nikon Coolpix 775 - obviously not the best camera in the world, and when I bought it (about a month ago) I didn't think about Digiscoping, and of course now I've given it some thought, I bet there's no way I can connect this Camera to any scope, either current or vintage model!

Unless anyone knows different, of course.
 
ralph_wiggum said:
I think I may have made a horrendous mistake when I bought my Digital Camera.

It's the Nikon Coolpix 775 - obviously not the best camera in the world, and when I bought it (about a month ago) I didn't think about Digiscoping, and of course now I've given it some thought, I bet there's no way I can connect this Camera to any scope, either current or vintage model!

Unless anyone knows different, of course.

Hello Ralph

It is possible to use the 775, don't know if you have heard of Graham Catley of Barton on Humber but he uses the 880 which is very similar in design I have seen his technique and his beautiful results. He uses the Swarovski 80 HD his camera just fits snug into the rubber eye relief attachment on the Swaro eyepiece so it lines up dead centre. So it can be done all I can say, he has perfected this technique. One disadvantage of this Nikon range is the pop out lens when you switch on/off the camera. Graham just leaves his switched on when he sees an interesting subject and when I mentioned it to him he said, " I always have plenty of spare batteries ".

Roy.
 
JennyWren said:
Hi All,


Glad to see there's a few more of us in here now... and just maybe somebody can help me?

I want to get into digi scoping but I really don't have a clue where to start! Can any of you members out there give me some advice on what I would need? ???

Is it possible to get started on a limited budget? (if so... what would you call limited?)

At the moment I have a canon E05 IX7 and a telescopic lense, but on looking at some of your shots in the gallery..... WOW!!!

Hi Jenny

Just thought I would add my comment from my short experience and the mistake I made buying the Kowa TS611. Getting set up can be quite expensive but I always say, if a jobs worth doing do it right. I had a lot of advice from Andy Bright this is what prompted me to buy one of the best scopes. My setup is exactly like Kevin uses so my advice to anyone buying a scope for this purpose try and buy the best. The Kowa TS611 is fine for birding etc but no good for digi-scoping as I discovered. I gave this to my son because I thought I would keep it in the family. I cannot give you advice which camera but the Nikon 900 series are favourite but don't buy a second-hand 950, I have one as spare but its not as user friendly as the 995.

Roy.
 
Thanks for the info Roy - very much appreciated. Shall check out Ace Optics of Bath and see what they have in the Swarovski line.

:t:
 
I took a few highly respectable shots hand holding an Olympus C860L against the 32x eyepiece of a Kowa 823 on a Manfrotto hide clamp and 'birder 2' head. A steady hand and lots of patience can offset a lot of expense. I now prefer my own stealth and an Olympus C700 (7.5x true optical) I can travel lighter ie no tripod or cumbersome flourite scope. OK I miss lots of stuff but I used to miss more stuff when I had to spend most of my time setting all the kit up. Not cool when you are trying to follow stuff in the field either and have to keep carting all the kit about. Some of the finest bird photographs I have ever seen were opportunist pics, taken in a few seconds with simple equip't. Travel fast, travel light, and be prepared for anything around the next corner! Be observant!
At the end of the day, what you gain with one hand you lose with the other but then, thats life!:D
My excuse for shedding the bulk and weight is I suffer from regular slipped discs so have to be very careful about carrying heavy stuff. I already use 8x50 Lieca's which are heavy enough to slow an elephant down. ;)
 
PS I back this up with a Sony digital camcorder with 20x (true optical). This takes reasonable stills too. Although the quality is a bit suspect for prints but fine for viewing on a high definition PC monitor ;) which is where I look at most of my work. More life like than prints. :t:
 
Scope was an angled 82mm flourite with 32WW (walk in field) eyepiece.
Camera? I pondered over this for weeks before plonking for the C700. It does everything you could ever wish a camera to do. Most of my work is landscape so a major compromise was had. I daren't leave it alone for more than a week or I start forgetting how to use it. Don't let that put anyone off. I don't use 70% of the features 70% of the time but they are always there if I need them. Here's a fantastic site for camera reviews, you'll find all the details you could wish for on here.

http://www.dpreview.com/reviews/olympusc700uz/default.asp

If you intend reading the whole review might I suggest you have a couple of paracetamol on standby! ;)

I agree the best digi-scoper camera's have to be the Nikons due to their easy fixing to many scopes. Great image clarity and detail rendering, very neutral colours. A bit pricey so shop around people. My camera was on sale at Jessops at xmas for £550 I bought mine from this site

http://www.digitalfirst.co.uk/index.asp

and it only cost me £359. Now thats a huge saving! :t:
 
Oly 700 for birding

Hi Funky, have you thought about an add-on teleconverter for the 700? I know plenty of people who stick the Oly b300 1.7x tc on the front of it....it's a bit pricey, a bit heavy and can be tricky to find but optically excellent. The extra focal length may require a tripod for sharp images, pity Oly dropped the image stabilsation of the birder's favourite (certainly in the U.S.)....the Oly 2100uz.
Andy B
 
Further to the B300, you can also use the TCON14 in combination to add an additional 1.45x. You do need to glue a filter thread to the front of it though. You lose next to no light enering the lens, with only slight loss in definition.
 
andybrightuk.......the lack of image stabilisation could have been done for image quality considerations. I have noticed a degradation of image quality with my Sony camcorder when the stabilisation circuitry is switched in. Of course a heavy and expensive optical stabiliser is to be prefered but they don't always fit 'em and we can't always afford the extra expense. (a sturdy tripod can be used for stills or video or a scope, stabilising everything). I often carry a thin polyester bag filled with the tiny polystyrene balls from a bean-bag. It makes a superb, versatile rest for scope, camera, video with zero expense its unbreakable and waterproof and only weighs about 20 grammes. My Sony has 560x zoom but is only any use up to 40x, the rest is just sales hype and useless. Its an embarrassment having 560x emblazoned on the side of the camera the lack of image stabilisation could have been done for image quality considerations. I have noticed a degradation of image quality with my Sony camcorder when the stabilisation circuitry is switched in. Of course a heavy and expensive optical stabiliser is to be prefered but they don't always fit 'em and we can't always afford the extra expense. (a sturdy tripod can be used for stills or video or a scope, stabilising everything). I often carry a thin polyester bag filled with the tiny polystyrene balls from a bean-bag. It makes a superb, versatile rest for scope, camera, video with zero expense its unbreakable and waterproof and only weighs about 20 grammes. My Sony has 560x zoom but is only any use up to 40x, the rest is just sales hype and useless. Its an embarrassment having 560x emblazoned on the side of the camera.
;) I'll certainly check out the Oly' extension. I often hand hold down to 1/4 sec, I'm lucky in having a very steady hand.
;)
 
I think we can safely give each other links to shops and companies which directly help each other get a good deal. Its not blatent advertising just two like minded people helping each other out. Its a grey area but if I can save someone £100+ on a piece of kit then by hook or by crook I will help them. I think the moderators can spot naughty advertising easily enough and erase it.
;)
 
I'm pretty sure that the Oly 2100uz used the mechanical I.S. system licensed by Canon.....it may have been that Olympus didn't want to pay too much, more likely that Canon didn't want it used on a competitor to their Pro90IS camera (which the 2100uz and 700/720 are). The results that I've seen from the 2100uz over the years would suggest a system that doesn't degrade the image.

My own minidv camcorder's electronic I.S. certainly degrades the image, only just noticed on playback on a t.v....and when transferred to sub 400 line vhs it's invisible. Lifting stills would probably show it far more....I don't do that, so can't say for sure.

btw, most of us don't have a problem with mentioning companies useful to eachother....someone else may :)
Andy B,
Watford
 
I don't always repeat myself like that, I can't really explain what happened there!
I don't always repeat myself like that, I can't really explain what happened there!

An optical stabiliser should have an imperceptible effect on image quality but as you point out the digital ones are way inferior.

"All's fair in love and war" and as you also pointed out, Sony and Canon will have their handbags loaded and pointing across no-mans-land!! I have yet to see fair and honest competition in the British market place. Its not the same in Europe or the States because the people there don't stand for all the 'bulls droppings' and vote with their wallets. I looked at models with optical stabilisers but in this ridiculous country I would have been in 4 figure territory. The same cameras are being sold across the pond at $800 thats under £550 ie half price!!?? :-C
The 2100 was under consideration for a while, good camera that albeit slightly heavier and rather bulky. The C700 is tiny taking into account its feature list.

Next thing on my shopping list has to be a stonkingly good eyepiece for my scope. I ditched the Kowa and Manfrotto last autumn saving what felt like 40kg but was nearer 6kg . On a visit to Leighton Moss my wife remarked that I look like a 'BBC outside broadcast unit'. Tripod, scope, camera, video, bins, 24 pocket jacket with two pockets spare, you get the picture?.
So cutting an epic novel short, I now have a second-hand Opticron 60ED. Tiny scope + rubber armour. I am a spectacle wearer and I'm accustomed to the walk-in field of the Kowa eyepieces. The 20x HD Opticron isn't a bad eyepiece although its a step down from the Kowa's but the eye-relief is much worse. The HDF would be a better bet at around £90+ but I learned recently that Kowa eyepieces can be successfully used on Opticron scopes. Probably with a grossly expensive adapter, ie 'a threaded metal insert which should be free with an eyepiece costing nearly a hundred quid' !!! :-C
I just wondered if anyone has looked through both lenses and could vouch for their suitability, that is, 'overall image quality and eye-relief'.

Steve....you will have mail later! :t:
 
Digi scoping

JennyWren said:
Hi All,


Glad to see there's a few more of us in here now... and just maybe somebody can help me?

I want to get into digi scoping but I really don't have a clue where to start! Can any of you members out there give me some advice on what I would need? ???

Is it possible to get started on a limited budget? (if so... what would you call limited?)

At the moment I have a canon E05 IX7 and a telescopic lense, but on looking at some of your shots in the gallery..... WOW!!!
1st of all hi all thanx for having me aboard.
Over the last few months I had taken up digital photography full on.
Now I find that I would like to get closer to the subjects ,or is it have the subjects closer to me.Whatever I enjoy this new hobby.
I have a fuji s9500 previous camera was Fuji S5500.
I have added a x2 zoom lense.
However I still would like to achieve THAT CLOSER look.
Another wish is to have a photo of a bird in flight.
I was so lucky and by the same token unlucky.
With my cheap digitital binocular camera I was lucky enough to catch a bird in flight (take off after fright)from our bird bath.
Great I thought after looking through the previews.
At the transfer stage it was lost.
Thems the breaks
Anyway back to digiscope I look forward to any help and advice that is offered.
May your next shot be the perfect one
Campbell
 
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