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No love for Steiner? (1 Viewer)

I bought the Steiner Wildlife XP 8x44 from Sierra Trading Post for $599. They are fantastic. The fluorite glass makes a big difference. They are brighter and sharper than my Peregrine XP 10x44. The FOV is not as wide as my Zeiss HT 8x42, but I think the optics are in the same league. Build quality is superb.

I've always liked the styling of the Steiners. Very Teutonic!

At $2000, I would buy an alpha instead because of the resell value. But, at $599, the Wildlife XP 8x44 is a screaming bargain. I wish they had the 10x44 at the same price so I could upgrade my Peregrine XP's.

Today, country of origin pales in the face of the actual quality of a product. But I think you will find most of today’s “very Teutonic” Steiners are coming from ... China. It’s what business has become. :cat:

Bill
 

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Hello,

I just looked at this catalogue entry for the Steiner 8x44. There was an enormous amount of optical nonsense like: "high-quality glass that delivers minimal distortion." There was also: "Fluoride glass ensures ...outstanding edge-to-edge sharpness." With my limited background in optics, I think those lines were lacking in both logic and veracity. Minimising distortion and providing edge to edge sharpness have far more to do with other aspects of the optical design.

I would also find "FOV @ 100 yards: 436'," to be off by a factor of ten. Although 436' feet at 1,000 yards would be quite acceptable, if the sweet spot was large enough. That price point should deliver a good, if not great, binocular

Should the catalogue have quoted Steiner blurb and specs, I would be be rather incredulous and suspicious.

Happy bird watching,
Arthur Pinewood
 
I bought two pairs of steiner discovery 10x44 some years ago (£600 new) which I've never given serious thought about changing.
I have got some much lighter fit in my pocket nikon 9x30 from the late 1970's and a pair of heavier 9x63 astronomy bins, but the steiner discovery are like perfect gloves.
 
There seems to be an update of the SkyHawk-Series since the end of 2018. They call it SkyHawk 4.0. Would be nice if someone who tested the binoculars could write a short review.
 
About a month ago I purchased some Steiner 8x42 Predator Binoculars from Amazon, on a whim, thinking I'd give them a shot. In the photos, and all marketing material, the Bins have a plaque on them that reads Steiner Germany.
I received the bins and noticed two things right away...
1) they didn't say Germany on them anymore, just Steiner. I looked at the box and all packaging and could not find a country of origin listed anywhere. How is this possible to omit any indication of country of origin, isn't it required?
2) the view was completely underwhelming, lacked sharpness and pop and were blown away by my 20+ year old Pentax DCF WP's.

I returned them to Aamazon, and also sent an email to Steiner requesting information of where they are made. The response I received about 2 weeks later assured me that they were manufactured in Germany. I'm not that gullible. If indeed they were, it would be plastered all over the product and would state this on the packaging. So in light of them trying to deceive me with whatever marketing loophole that they are exploiting regarding the origins, I'll consider that my one and only experience with Steiner.
 
This has been a big deal in the rifle scope community.

My Steiner P4Xi came in a Steiner box with a return address for Burris. Apparently Burris either bought all of Steiner, or part of Steiner, or both are now owned by the same parent company. Some Steiner stuff (their military model scopes for example) are "assured" to be made in Germany, while most of their other stuff is -- you guessed it -- made in Asia somewhere.
 
About a month ago I purchased some Steiner 8x42 Predator Binoculars from Amazon, on a whim, thinking I'd give them a shot. In the photos, and all marketing material, the Bins have a plaque on them that reads Steiner Germany.
I received the bins and noticed two things right away...
1) they didn't say Germany on them anymore, just Steiner. I looked at the box and all packaging and could not find a country of origin listed anywhere. How is this possible to omit any indication of country of origin, isn't it required?
2) the view was completely underwhelming, lacked sharpness and pop and were blown away by my 20+ year old Pentax DCF WP's.

I returned them to Aamazon, and also sent an email to Steiner requesting information of where they are made. The response I received about 2 weeks later assured me that they were manufactured in Germany. I'm not that gullible. If indeed they were, it would be plastered all over the product and would state this on the packaging. So in light of them trying to deceive me with whatever marketing loophole that they are exploiting regarding the origins, I'll consider that my one and only experience with Steiner.

There is a good chance that even when the product said “Germany,” it was not actually manufactured there. Living on the accolades of the past, some people would be happy looking through a rusty pipe if it had a German name on the side. Yes, that reputation was deserved! Key word ... WAS. In the days when B&L was the big dog in American binoculars, prior to WWII much of their inventory came from Zeiss.

Although, when Pioneer Marketing was the importer it took 15 years for me to consider placing them in my inventory. Because of the product? Nope! Because of their shuck-n-jive method of marketing. They promised to let me sell the product my way and I welcomed them onboard. We can thank Steiner for starting all that shady “Auto-Focus” crap that caught on with other firms. But they knew most of us were stars in the world-wide production of “Gullibles Travels.” Thus, anything said in print had to be true ... right?

THE LAST “PREDATOR” I SOLD WAS A WORLD-CLASS BINOCULAR and far more suitable for birding than their squatty models. But ... and as they say, it was a BIG BUTT ... I think it was made in Asia. The country of origin matters not a whit to me. I’m concerned with optical performance, mechanical performance, longevity of the manufacturer, and solid customer service.

For what it’s worth, Steiner is now imported by Burris and since 2008 has been owned by Beretta Holding. Things change, optics is a cutthroat business, and as long as those with little experience can go to Asia with $500 and two empty suitcases and return a binocular mogul, it will remain such. And in trying to compete in that cutthroat business, we can all expect the truth to be frequently bent out of shape. ‘An indictment of Steiner? No way. An indictment of an industry. :cat:

Bill
 
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I found this article

https://www.thefirearmblog.com/blog/2018/10/05/factory-visit-steiner-optic-germany/

Are some Steiner optics still made in Germany, or partly assembled there, or is the facility for R&D?

Hi, Charlie:

I can’t say what I don’t know, and this I don’t know. I will tell you what I DO know.

— Steiner DID make optics at their plant in Germany. Whether they still do, I couldn’t say. They had the equipment and the infrastructure.
— Modern color photos have a long shelf life.
— The majority of writers doing articles for magazines depend heavily on unban legend and what the company’s senior sales rep has to say. Thus, they leave the fox to guard the henhouse.
— When a Steiner rep visited me in the late 1980s, he said: “We make binoculars for 22 armies and navies.”
— When Pioneer’s Sven Harms visited me a few months later and I mentioned that comment, he said: “We don’t make binoculars for 22 armies, just one of the biggest.” Okay, which is it; who’s lying?
— Also, that first Steiner rep showed me a photo of Carl’s Mercedes parked on top of a Steiner 7x50. I then took him outside where I pulled my pickup up on a dirt-cheap 7x50 to show him that was no great feat—just so much smoke and mirrors. Reps aren’t prepared to talk with vendors who know what the heck they are talking about.
— After my meeting with Sven, we had a good relationship and totally understood each other’s position. From that point on, he was a straight arrow with me.
— I know that in the fleet, the Steiner was known by the OMs around me as, “the disposable binocular.”
— With the failure of the M19 project, the Steiner Commander became the US Army’s M22.
— After about 5 years, they switched to the much cheaper Fujinon AR from Kamakura.

The following is from a book on the misgivings about binoculars:

“The Optics Division of Bell & Howell won the contract and started producing the
binoculars with Japanese optics.

“The Army believed the M19 could be manufactured in such a way as to dramatically cut production costs once R&D expenditures had been recouped and by 1980 production was up to about 2,000 units per month. Yet by the early 1990s, they had once again fallen back to civilian offerings for their binoculars, choosing to replace the M19 with a Steiner Commander II (without compass), calling it their new M22. Then, by the middle of the decade, they changed again. The M22 would now be the Fujinon AR (Nautilus) from Kama-Tech, the American arm of Kamakura in Japan.”

Steiner can be credited with that Auto-Focus crap that fooled so many people who knew nothing about optics. It may not have been honest advertising, but it sure made them a lot of money. :cat:

Bill
 
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The British army bought about 14,000? Steiner binoculars.
The Australian army also recently bought Steiner binoculars and night vision units.
I don't know where these are made, but does it matter?
If they are throw away items, that is what happens, but it must make commercial sense.

Some reps know as much or more than most professional buyers, and are quite willing to be educated about anything they don't know.
It depends on the rep.
When they start out they don't know much, but if they are any good they learn quickly.
They also have an overview of the whole trade, and even a good buyer may not know everything about obscure matters.
 
The British army bought about 14,000? Steiner binoculars.
The Australian army also recently bought Steiner binoculars and night vision units.
I don't know where these are made, but does it matter?
If they are throw away items, that is what happens, but it must make commercial sense.

Some reps know as much or more than most professional buyers, and are quite willing to be educated about anything they don't know.
It depends on the rep.
When they start out they don't know much, but if they are any good they learn quickly.
They also have an overview of the whole trade, and even a good buyer may not know everything about obscure matters.

Many matters obscure to the rep would be important to the consumer ... if they only knew.

Where they are made IS NOT important, as long as they fill the bill. :cat:

Bill
 
It is a two way experience.
Talking personally and about optics, if I don't know something I ask.
But there are fewer and fewer experts to ask.
This is where I struggle.

I have frequently brought to the attention commercial matters to the top optical people that they did not appreciate, and saved them a lot of wasted effort on things that already exist and don't need reinventing.

In addition, I have introduced expert technicians to the top people who they did not know still existed.

But I know very little about anything.
The more I learn the less I know, or at least I realise that the more I know, the more questions there are that I don't have answers for.
 
if they are indeed throw away bins and are represented as such I have no problem....if they break under warranty they replace them.....if they break later toss them and grab another.....no need to train and pay screw turners to sit on their thumbs waiting for one to go bad....money better spent ordering out for lunch….:eat:
 
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It is a two way experience.
Talking personally and about optics, if I don't know something I ask.
But there are fewer and fewer experts to ask.
This is where I struggle.

I have frequently brought to the attention commercial matters to the top optical people that they did not appreciate, and saved them a lot of wasted effort on things that already exist and don't need reinventing.

In addition, I have introduced expert technicians to the top people who they did not know still existed.

But I know very little about anything.
The more I learn the less I know, or at least I realise that the more I know, the more questions there are that I don't have answers for.

Fewer experts?

By research and survey, a 20-year old will have 8 jobs within 3 CAREERS before retiring. With his mind all over the map, how can one be expected to know in-depth information about a given topic? And when it comes to 3-axis binocular collimation, Cory and I are still teaching “EXPERTS” who, for years have been offering that willy-nilly, screw-tweaking crap offered all over the Internet as “collimation,” when it is really only conditional alignment. Many times—if the error is small and the personal accommodation great—that will be all that is needed. Other times, following that foolish advice will take the instrument farther from clinical collimation and may cause damage to the instrument.

The information is out there. But so many people find talking about it so much easier than reading about the REALITIES of the matter. :cat:
 
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Where things are manufactured is interesting and important. I may have said I recently chucked two pairs of shoes bought in the 1980's in Clarks, a Uk shoeshop. Made in England. A couple of years ago I ordered two pairs of size 9 from Clarks, one pair boots and one pair shoes and went into the local shop to try, only to find one pair too large and the other too small for me. Both pairs made in India. I haven't been into the shop since.

My Steiners Discovery/Peregrine XP have lasted 10 years without problems, and I still do not know where they/the parts were made or assembled back then...nor where the replacement Nighthunter XP are made.
But I am interested.
The common Chinese made cheapies are a waste-of-money as, in my experience they literally fall apart.
Recently I've seen two pairs for £20 in Lidl. In a newspaper, a mega zoom 30-160x70 for £280.
The mid range is much more hard to judge.
May as well pay for made in Portugal/Austria etc if you can.

Nice thing about Steiner is it's an easy rhyme:

A passionate German called Steiner
Made bins, and few rivals were finer;
From Bayreuth they spread far,
Reached my local bazaar,
Though they're probably now 'Made In China'.

3:)
 
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Some years ago I visited the Steiner company in Bayreuth and at that time I saw with my own eyes that binoculars were made there, but that was before Beretta became ownwer of the company.
Gijs van Ginkel
 
CharleyBird, I like the rhyme.

Where things are made matters to me but maybe not to the army, unless it is Chinese phones, which are now suspicious.

I saw my 4 plug Chinese extension lead catch fire in front of my eyes. I managed to switch it off at the mains.
It cost about £3. If I hadn't been there I'd probably have nowhere to live.
I bought a British made power supply unit that cost £40 to replace it.

As to experts.
My oven broke down major.
I have kept insurance on it.
The engineer was very precise, very competent and very good.
The oven needed 4 parts, costing £600 in all, but cheaper than a replacement oven.
He said it would take two weeks.
He returned and did an excellent and careful job.

But the surprising thing is he saw my astro photos and told me the names of stars, constellations and planetary features in Latin.
He then discussed a giant star with me using Latin and English.
No visiting non astronomer has ever known so much.

He was Bulgarian and spoke excellent English.
A very educated man.

I don't think there are many British engineers who could discuss astronomy in Latin.
 
Frankly if someone screws up their binocular going there with tools and trying to fix alignment that is their business, I could care less if they choose to not do any real research and screw up their glass.

More and more companies are going to the replace not repair method with binoculars, Steiner is one of them, Nikon has also, that seems to be the future, and additionally many folks will buy them. As long as I am alive I am grateful for those who can fix a nice vintage or premium glass. I will no longer waste my time looking for that mid priced glass that is better than or good as the "alphas". I will keep a few mid range glass, but for my eyes going forward, I choose to only buy and use premium glass now.

Andy W.
 
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