Large gull (1 Viewer)

Hi,
This gull was photographed on Dominica in the Caribbean about a month ago AFAIK. I did not take the pictures, but I have been asked to upload them to get a more certain id of which gull it is. The guesses have been herring and lesser black-backed gull so far.

By the way, the person seen on one of the images is Bertrand Jno Baptiste, Forester and the best bird guide on the island.

Thanks
Niels

njlarsen said:

Hi,
This gull was photographed on Dominica in the Caribbean about a month ago AFAIK. I did not take the pictures, but I have been asked to upload them to get a more certain id of which gull it is. The guesses have been herring and lesser black-backed gull so far.

By the way, the person seen on one of the images is Bertrand Jno Baptiste, Forester and the best bird guide on the island.

Thanks
Niels

Click to expand...

Herring Gull - noooo - looks like the greater blackback that we have like this one...

Thank you for the answer!

I forgot to mention that the wing span was measured and as far as I remember was 146 cm. (give or take one for my old brain)

thanks
Niels

Doesn´t look like a GBBG to me, rather like a 1st winter Kelp Gull. Not sure about a GBBG in the Caribbean either, a Kelp Gull would be more likely.
It´s to dark (Like a LBBG) has a different tertial and covert pattern:http://mail.speedlink.com.au/users/cchafer/dig_images/JK_GULL.JPG

http://www.martinreid.com/kegup12.html

Would have been good to see the gull from above, and get som better views of the greater coverts and other characters!

Kelp Gull (L.dominicanus) is the current vote.

JanJ

OK,
I have looked around for some information on these species in a Caribbean context. Am Herring gull and Gr Black-backed gull have been seen before on Dominica, the others not. According to Raffaele et al, Herring gull is very rare in the Lesser Antilles, but increasing. LBBG is very rare, seen in at least 4 different islands, also increasing. GBBG is a vagrant seen on two of the islands, but also increasing. Kelp gull is not in the book. Further south, Kelp gull is reported from Trinidad (I have seen a picture with supposedly two at the same time) but Ffrench's book does not mention Kelp Gull. de Schauensee & Phelps does not mention any of these from Venezuela proper, but Herring gull from some islands 270 km vest of Dominica; none of the other species are mentioned. Howell and Webb (Mexico) has one observation for GBBG, 2 birds x four years for Kelp Gull, rare for LBBG, and HG is increasingly more common as one goes north.

Wingspan: 146 cm is just inside the range for KG (132-147), LBBG (132-147), while more in the middle for HG (136-153). 146 cm is below the range for GBBG (152-165). Ranges are from Howell and Webb (Mexico), but similar ranges are given in Beaman and Madge (Europe - no range for Kelp Gull). Pizzey & Knight (Australia) gives a range of 1.28-1.4 m for Kelp Gull.

I have always avoided the gulls except if they were adult, so I don't really know what to believe. I do, however, agree that we should have had a shot of the wings directly from above, but I actually think that the three pictures we look at are all that the photographer took.

Therefore, I would feel more confident if more people would add their opinion, either with why some species can be excluded or why some other species is what this is.

thanks
Niels

Ok Niels,
talking measurements, 'gulls' gives wingspan: Kelp, 128-142. Am. Herring,120-150. LBBG, 118-150. GBBG, 145-165.
These would all be possible vagrants to the area. I would say that it doesn´t even get close to GBBG in appearance. The breast is to pale and dark streaked for Am Herring, but a LBBG would also be a possibility, since the bill tip doesn´t look that bulbous, but then again it doesn´t always do in Kelp. Have a look at the two juveniles here:
http://www.greglasley.net/kelpgull2.html, and look at the pattern on the outer tail feather. Whitout saying that it´s a typical feature for juvenile Kelp, it´s quite similar to the gull in question.
I can´t say for certain that it´s a Kelp Niels, but since Kelp has breed in Lousiana since some years back, and interbreeding with Herring has occured, it wouldn´t be that unique for a Kelp to occur in the area, and concider the hybrids Kelp x Herring, which could be rather similar to LBBG, I´ve heard.

http://listserv.arizona.edu/cgi-bin/wa?A2=ind0403d&L=birdchat&F=&S=&P=1596

JanJ