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New Televid 82 mm (2 Viewers)

From what I've read on here the new scopes wont accept the old eyepieces, what about vice versa. I've been thinking of getting a zoom for my 77 for a while now - does this mean I'll have to get one sooner rather than later, or will the new eyepieces be able to be retrofitted?

Sorry if this has been asked before - not time to trawl the whole thread.
 
From what I've read on here the new scopes wont accept the old eyepieces, what about vice versa. I've been thinking of getting a zoom for my 77 for a while now - does this mean I'll have to get one sooner rather than later, or will the new eyepieces be able to be retrofitted?

Sorry if this has been asked before - not time to trawl the whole thread.

From everything I've gathered, the new eyepieces won't fit on the old scopes or visa-versa.

I'll probably be selling my APO with 20-60 in order to get the 82. I hope Leica shares some more information soon.
 
Currently I have two Leica Televid 77 APOs. One angled and one straight. I often go out on the trail from about 8 am to 12 pm (noon) and the sky is quite cloudy for at least a couple of hours, it would be nice to have more light gathering. This would be my only reason to go to switch from my current Leicas, other than the zoom eyepiece wants to come out of the scope body when the zoom ring is turned.

I find it a little frustrating that Leica is only increasing the aperture to 82mm. Zeiss has had their 85mm spotter out for a few years. Kowa now has a fine 88mm APO. Why such a small increase by Leica?

At this point I'm leaning toward the Kowa 88mm.

Thanks,
Rich
 
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First off, I have always held Leica optics in very high regard. I have been fortunate to own an Ultravid and Televid APO - the viewing experiences have been nothing short of celestial. However, I'm concerned that Leica's new scopes are already behind the curve in light of:

1. Smaller aperture than Kowa and Zeiss; and

2. Shorter zoom range (25x-50x)

Certainly, it is unfair and premature to render an opinion on an optic that isn't even available. That said, I'm puzzled as to why Leica wouldn't continue with an improved 20x-60x or even a 25x-75x a la Nikon. In my mind, having that extra 'reach' is critical under certain situations.

As far as aperture is concerned, 3-6mm doesn't sound like much, but in the world of premium scopes where purchasing decisions are often based on minutiae, this could make the difference.

I hope I'm wrong, but is Leica's updated Televid already playing second fiddle?
 
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I hope I'm wrong, but is Leica's updated Televid already playing second fiddle?

Jaeger,

I don't think so. They certainly have prioritized certain features differently from some of their competitors, but I believe they have made many good choices from birdwatcher's point of view. Sorry about the lengthy post. :hi:

1. Marketing
They have replaced the lower end achromat models with "HD" (which incidentally is how Swarovski calls their high-end models). They also one-upped Swaro's 80mm...

2. Scope body
The main complaint of the earlier APO77 were the length and weight. Now they made the scope lighter in weight and increased light gathering power: fine! Personally I wouldn't mind carrying a 85 or 88mm scope, but I don't think 82mm will be a disadvantage. In Jan Meijerink's tests with Kowa scopes http://www.tvwg.nl/testrapporten/telescoop/kowa tsn-773+883.htm you can see that an excellent 82mm scope has just as good resolution as a good/average 88mm scope. Smaller lenses are also easier to make cost-efficiently consistent. The APO77 had a very fast focal ratio, but (in good samples) its colour correction was already excellent - now the 82mm (and 65mm) apparently have slower focal ratio, which should further improve correction of aberrations.

3. Eyepiece
At first thought the 25-50xASPH may sound like a step down from a 20-60x, but if you think about the way most birdwatchers use the zoom, it may start to make sense. IMO the traditional 20-60x zooms are almost unacceptable compromises, which are difficult to use comfortably:
- You get nice, wide views (AFOV) but only at high powers which are more often than not useless due to atmospherics.
- You get good eye-relief, but only at powers that are often too low and the AFOV is narrow like looking down to a toilet paper roll.
- You get everything in between the 20x and 60x, but only at lousy eye-reliefs.
- Only 20x works well in digiscoping.
These are why many birdwatchers prefer 30x wides.

Now, with the 25-50x Leica has been able to bring a good, stable general-purpose a) power, b) eye-relief and c) (true and apparent) FOV all in the SAME zoom setting (25x)... and a possibility to increase the power 2x when necessary. Obviously you can't have everything, and so Leica bravely gave up some zoom range for a better "zoom experience". It may not be quite as easy to sell on the paper than, say, a 4x zoom (= more than 3x), but I believe there is demand among digiscopers, users of fixed wide-angles and those users who are not completely happy with any of the current zooms.

Best regards,

Ilkka :t:
 
Jaeger 70-
First off, I have always held Leica optics in very high regard. I have been fortunate to own an Ultravid and Televid APO - the viewing experiences have been nothing short of celestial. However, I'm concerned that Leica's new scopes are already behind the curve in light of:

1. Smaller aperture than Kowa and Zeiss; and

2. Shorter zoom range (25x-50x)


More isn't always better. Why not go for a 100mm scope? Maybe a 10-80x zoom would be best, like some mediocre camera lenses. Part of the design considerations any maker has when building a spotting scope is knowing where to stop.


Certainly, it is unfair and premature to render an opinion on an optic that isn't even available. That said, I'm puzzled as to why Leica wouldn't continue with an improved 20x-60x or even a 25x-75x a la Nikon. In my mind, having that extra 'reach' is critical under certain situations.

Yes, it is premature to make assumptions about this scope. Leica has a history of being very adult, conservative, and right about multi-focal length lenses. 2:1 zoom ratios offer less compromises than 3:1 zooms. I, and I suppose many others, would rather have a fully usable, wide field 25-50x than a marginal 20-60x.

If you need 75x, and need it to come in the form of a zoom, then I suggest getting a Nikon ED82. Maybe the Leica just won't be for everybody.

As far as aperture is concerned, 3-6mm doesn't sound like much, but in the world of premium scopes where purchasing decisions are often based on minutiae, this could make the difference.
I hope I'm wrong, but is Leica's updated Televid already playing second fiddle?


Personally I wouldn't (and don't) get wrapped up in the aperture race. I don't drive a car with a V-8 either. There's much more to the equation than absolute light gathering. Frankly, I'd be very surprised if one could discern a difference except under the very lowest of light conditions.

Regarding Leica playing second fiddle... whatever that means. I'm sure there will be people ready and willing to play that fiddle.
 
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Personally I do not see how anyone can make a judgement on this scope as yet unless they have actually been able to look through it. Therefore speculation based on this or that meausrement, zoom is essentially just blowing smoke rings. No doubt come the Autumn we shall all find out unless it is delayed until Spring 2009!
So Ikka you are of the opinion that the Kowa 88 series are just good/average??
 
Robert,

Personally I think there are many features on which we can make judgements just by looking at the specs. We know what 25x looks like, we know what 50x looks like and we know how a 60° AFOV looks like compared to 40°. Many of us also know in practice what kind of problems poor eye-relief causes for viewing with glasses and eg. for digiscoping. We have access to all the features of the upcoming Leica, but not in a single instrument. My purpose was to acknowledge Leica's somewhat 'different' strategy and express my belief that there is a market niche for them - certainly not to raise unfounded expectations about a product that doesn't exist yet.

As I said in my previous post, Jan Meijerink's documented measurements show that his old cherry 82mm Kowa TSN823 has just as good resolution as the 'good/average' new 88mm TSN883 - and better resolution than any of the six tested 85mm Zeiss scopes. What I didn't make very clear was that Kowa's 'average' 88mm is very consistent and seems much much better than Zeiss' 85mm. My point was that increasing lens sizes increases costs and potentially sample variation - and if in practice a well made 82mm objective can resolve the same as several 88mm's and more than any of six samples of 85mm scopes, then why not just try and make the 82mm as well as possibly with minimal sample variation. IMO Kowa have done excellent job with the 883 and it justly deserves being called the best scope now. It is just that slightly better resolution, brightness, FOV and colour correction than eg. in my old Swarovski don't make me want to upgrade as much as a zoom eyepiece with 60° AFOV at mostly used power.

Best regards,

Ilkka :t:


So Ikka you are of the opinion that the Kowa 88 series are just good/average??

An excellent 883 is probably better than an excellent 823, but in Jan's test there were perhaps *just* good-average samples of 883s.
 
Ikka, I still use an old TSN4, mainly because I cannot afford a newer scope but having said that the old (now over 15years)TSN4 is still pretty good. IN fact the old TSN's are becoming a classic!!
 
Hello all,

I saw that EagleOptics.com listed the Leica Televid APO 82mm scope today.

$3995 ($4395 list).

|8.|

Yow. That is quite a bit more than I was expecting (even though it does include the EP). Unless it completely blows the Kowa 883 out of the water I think that Leica is going to have a hard time attracting buyers.
 
The price includes the 25-50x eyepiece. Eagle doesn't have a price for the body only and no listing for the 25-50x eyepiece as a separate item. I would guess the eyepiece could account for $1000 of the price, perhaps more.

Compared to its peers the scope body is really quite conventional. I don't see any design features that would justify paying such a huge premium over the other high end scopes. Given the aperture limitation its hard to see how this scope can be quite as good as the Kowa.
 
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According to Leica’s literature for the US market it looks like all scopes will come with a zoom eyepiece. APO’s of either objective size will have the 25x – 50x and HDs equipped with the 20x-60x. The 32x fixed is the only other eyepiece option that is available separately.

Either way you look at it the admission to the Leica spotting scope club took a serious financial climb. By the way cost of the 65mm APO is $3,195.00.
 
Hello all,

I saw that EagleOptics.com listed the Leica Televid APO 82mm scope today.

$3995 ($4395 list).

|8.|

Yow. That is quite a bit more than I was expecting (even though it does include the EP). Unless it completely blows the Kowa 883 out of the water I think that Leica is going to have a hard time attracting buyers.
The scope is free.
Leica's new warranty, however, will cost you $400(USD) per year...in advance.
Truly, a remarkable deal.
John
 
Hi All,

In Luxembourg, the new Apo-Televid now is on the lists for 2910 euro with tax, including 25-50 zoom ocular. A little bit big price but the new scope is an outstanding success and to be the first and better than other is always some very expensive thing.

Best regards
 
£2300!!! - that must put a good proportion of the prospective purchasers off (including me). Can it really be that much better than the current Swaro HD or Diascope, both of which are about a £1000 less than that and the Swaros come with a free tripod currently. £1000 gets you a good birding trip! Crazy money IMO
 
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