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Historical Review of Swift 804 Audubon Binoculars (1 Viewer)

Thank you for the response Renze. Yes, red & green in the ocular & green in the objective.

ETA: In the Swift 804 ID thread Brock posted his & mine looks the same w/exception that I have no oval sticker on the left side bridge, the Swift small round one is on the right side, but instead on the bottom of the left barrel I have a larger round applique, japan telescopes inspection institute. In the center, INSPECTED.

Same blue strap w/swift in white though I didn't notice the one piece rainguard w/one lug on the left, lining up nicely w/L. body strap lug, that came w/mine. Mine came a la carte w/o hard case.
 
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Renze and I were discussing this issue recently. I think the confusion stems from the fact that a model looking like a Type 4b(1) was issued by Pyser in 1985, at the same time the Type 4a (804R) was issued by Swift Instruments in the US. Except for plate markings, the two had the same watery MC optics. That version is not shown in the article, but can be identified by not having Model 804 or 804R on the cover plate. Model numbers were not used by Pyser.

The 4b(1) shown in the article is an improved MC version of the 804R, which as Renze mentioned may really be FMC. The reflections look fairly close to my 804ED which is marked FMC. The subsequent 4b(2) is marked FMC, but has much greener coatings that are identical with my late 90s 826 Kestrel. Confusing, I admit, but we're only the messengers. ;)

Do you agree, Renze?

Ed
 
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Thanks for the replies, all the work put into the research on the 804 and offering the material. I'm happy w/mine, though they'd suffered a blow requiring a little attention, the colour, FOV & detail is very rewarding. Especially for a model put out to pasture a dozen years ago.
 
FYI...in possession of an HR/5 with serial number 2001XX.

Also have a '91 model marked "MULTI COATED OPTICS" with performance that exactly matches 2001XX in all lighting conditions, leading to belief that these models were always fully multi coated and that it took the marketing people a while to catch up with production realities - something which is quite common.

Three HR/5 models - the two already mentioned and another '96 (marked "FULLY MULTI COATED") all show different colors on the outside and inside lens surfaces.
 
New (vintage) 804 is excellent, need lens cap

Apologies if prolonging this great thread troubles anyone. I have the good fortune to have bought an 804 Type 2 variant in very good condition. It is really quite beautiful -- clear and crisp view and excellent mechanically -- as everyone here says. I would like to ask for suggestions about where I could look for an objective lens cover; one is missing. And should anyone know where a case could be purchased I would be interested. The case I received is in rather sad condition, with both top and bottom repaired somewhat crudely.
 
rdn said:
Apologies if prolonging this great thread troubles anyone. I have the good fortune to have bought an 804 Type 2 variant in very good condition. It is really quite beautiful -- clear and crisp view and excellent mechanically -- as everyone here says. I would like to ask for suggestions about where I could look for an objective lens cover; one is missing. And should anyone know where a case could be purchased I would be interested. The case I received is in rather sad condition, with both top and bottom repaired somewhat crudely.
Click to expand...

First off welcome to BF. Great threads are spawned by great binoculars. I have a type 2 804 myself. There are any number of sources for cases that work. Eagle Optics sells some cases that should have one big enough. I got a reliable cheapo off an eBay search. Small backpacks or fanny packs or even small purses are a good place to look. You can find leather saddle bags of the proper size as well, these will last for your lifetime. An eBay search for saddlebags will get more than you can imagine. There are synthetic material saddle bags too, which will be less money that a real leather one. Motorcycle saddle bags also. You could probably find some cases lurking in the camera store or stores with large camera selections too.

I used some Bushwhacker flip up caps on my 804's.

If ever you think your 804 needs some TLC contact Nicholas Crista at NRC optics repair. I know he will have objective and eye cups, but I don't know if he has enough to sell outside those binoculars he fixes. He probably has cases too, but anyway he might be worth a call. Even sending him your 804 for a clean and inspect as necessary might amaze you with the results.
 
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Hi Steve,

Thanks for the reply and quite a list of useful suggestions. I will look into the bushwhacker flip up caps. And though it might not be what I wind up doing for a case, your remarks on saddlebags make me curious. I am in the process of rebuilding the case I got with the 804s, hoping the result will be both strong and aesthetically OK. And thanks for the lead on Nicholas Crista. I have seen him recommended, and everyone says he's the best.

Roger
 
I know I'm a bit late to this party, but my Swift 804 HR/5 FMC arrived recently, and I want to report that they exceed even my highest expectations. I also want to thank Ed Huff (AKA Elkclub) for his exhaustive and invaluable research on the 804. I owned an 820 ED for barely 2 days before returning them - terribly dissapointed by their inferior build quality and flimsy bridge (Silly Putty might be an improvement!). Knowing the single coated 804s would never satisfy my Swarovski-adapted eyes, I knew my only hope was to wait patiently for a pristine FMC 804 to eventually turn up. I suggest that anyone who thinks they know what the 804's optics are capable of based on their single coated form, would be startled at the difference multi coatings make. This also leads me to suspect that some of the praise lavished upon the 804 ED is due to their superior coatings. I see only the very slightest room for improvement in CA reduction in the outer third of the image - in this regard I must agree with Steven Ingraham's assesment that it is likely not worth the added expense. I felt similarly after comparing the Ultravid HD to the original Ultravid. Much of what I found fatiguing about the Nikon SE is corrected in the 804 - specifically image brightness, and ease of view - both resulting from the noticeably larger exit pupil. Sharpness in the center of the image is simply beyond criticism! In fairness, my pair arrived in need of vertical alignment (easily corrected), but this might suggest a certain inherent fragility that most modern roofs seem to have overcome. There is also considerable prism bleeding, which limits their usefulness at night - easily forgiven considering their clearly intended purpose.
 
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Questions on my 1961 model 804

Greetings to all - I hope this thread is still monitored!
I came across it today while researching Swift Audubon 8.5x,44 binocular history and have just joined the forum.

I just acquired a vintage Swift Audubon 8.5 x 44 this past Friday.
VG condition, crystal clear optics, perfect collimation.

Overall impression:
Astounding image quality, especially when considering the age of this bino !Best image quality of any binocular I own. On par with or better than some high-end binos I have personal experience with, to include the issue M22 Steiner & Fujinon binoculars as well as various Hertel & Reuss, Carl Zeiss, Leica, Kern binos I have had an opportunity to use during a 20 + year career in the US Army.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Description, FYI and your historical files:

- Left side prism plate marked with Swift logo as well as:
"FULLY COATED OPTICS" & "FEATHERWIGHT"

- Right side prism plate marked: 'No. 12-610066'.
Assuming this follows the Swift SOP of the last 2 digits of year of manufacture being the first 2 digits of the 6-digit string of #s then that dates this binocular to 1961.
If this is the correct date, then this is an early production model.

- It has the characteristics described in the 3-part research paper I just downloded from this thread (in post #15), by Edward M. Huff and Renze de Vries - except:
The focus wheel is not in the hinge, rather it is the more conventional ocular focus bridge setup with a right side diopter with a 3.5 +/- range. The wheel itself is a typical period aluminum design with machined ridges, approx 1 cm wide.

As listed on prism plates:
- FULLY COATED OPTICS
- FOV: 420 ft @ 100 yds

- Not sure if the ocular is of the 5-part 'Erfle' type or not as I don't know what to look for, but I suspect it is since it's visibly different than the more standard ocular systems I am familiar with. It has a screw-up/down aluminum eyecups with a 5mm range of adjustement. The 22mm ocular lens dia. is significantly larger than most binoculars.

Stamped on front of objective end of hinge arms:
JB45 - which indicates Tamron Co., Ltd., Tokyo as the final assembly company.

Body has strap lugs, not rings
and does not have a threaded tripod adapter

JE47 - which indicates Tokuhiro Koki Seisakusho Inc., Tokyo as the manuf of the bino body.

++++++++++++++

Questions:
Appreciate any answers from members with subject matter knowledge that are still monitoring this thread:

Please refer to attached photos for clarification

1) Is this indeed a model 804 Mark II ?
If YES, what type is it? ie: 1, 1a, 1b etc?
If I understand correctly type 2 production began in 1971, so assuming I have a type 1.

2) Does it have the Erfle type ocular system?

3) Does it have BaK prisms ?

4) Would the optics have been FMC this early in the prodcution - 1961 ?


I thank all for your interest, I look forward to an ongoing dialogue on this thread!

Pierre
 

Attachments

  • Swift Audubon 8.5 x 44.doc
    1.4 MB · Views: 524
Hi Pierre,

Thanks for chiming in. And congratulations with your Audubon.

Our article has been awaiting considerable udating for some time now. The largest gaps of information being in the early years of production, the 1950's and early 1960's.
And of course that's where your type comes from, with the result that there's no information in our article at all. What we knew when publishing the survey was that there had been an early Audubon type with a field of view of 420 ft. At least that's what we found in an early, not exactly dated Swift catalogue. We called this Audubon type 1a (420 ft and a large focus wheel) but to our surprise we never saw this type in the flesh, to this very day. However, we did meet with three other early types, also 420 ft. binoculars but having a small focus wheel and differing slightly in the eyecup construction. By lack of a better indication we called them type 0's in discussions on this forum.
So that's what you have in your possession, a representative of the earliest Audubon type put to the market. The nice thing is that it's a historical piece as well. While all other type 0 Audubons were marketed by the company Swift and Anderson, in 1961 the company became Swift Instruments and celebrated the occasion by registering their their trademark logo. On your Audubon you'll see the registered trademark sign which means that together with the low serial number you're the lucky owner of the earliest Swift Instruments Audubon yet. At least this is the lowest sn Ed and I have seen 'till now.

For your other questions, I'll ask Ed to to join in.

Renze
 
Renze

Thank you for the information on this Swift Audubon - I was afraid this thread was too old and no one was monitoring it any longer.

I paid a total of $80.75 for these on eBay - purchase price and shipping - but of course had no idea at that time of their significance.

I now have a far better idea of what this early model represents - this is exciting, or at least it is for me and for the small group of those of us who have an interest in these binoculars!!

Let me know if you need any further details about these for your research, will be happy to provide additional photos, etc as needed.
I do have more photos but the total file size of all these photos is larger than what I can post on this thread. I could send to you via email if you want me to, please let me know.


Look forward to getting answers to the other questions from Ed


All the best
Pierre



Renze de Vries said:
Hi Pierre,

Thanks for chiming in. And congratulations with your Audubon.

Our article has been awaiting considerable udating for some time now. The largest gaps of information being in the early years of production, the 1950's and early 1960's.
And of course that's where your type comes from, with the result that there's no information in our article at all. What we knew when publishing the survey was that there had been an early Audubon type with a field of view of 420 ft. At least that's what we found in an early, not exactly dated Swift catalogue. We called this Audubon type 1a (420 ft and a large focus wheel) but to our surprise we never saw this type in the flesh, to this very day. However, we did meet with three other early types, also 420 ft. binoculars but having a small focus wheel and differing slightly in the eyecup construction. By lack of a better indication we called them type 0's in discussions on this forum.
So that's what you have in your possession, a representative of the earliest Audubon type put to the market. The nice thing is that it's a historical piece as well. While all other type 0 Audubons were marketed by the company Swift and Anderson, in 1961 the company became Swift Instruments and celebrated the occasion by registering their their trademark logo. On your Audubon you'll see the registered trademark sign which means that together with the low serial number you're the lucky owner of the earliest Swift Instruments Audubon yet. At least this is the lowest sn Ed and I have seen 'till now.

For your other questions, I'll ask Ed to to join in.

Renze
Click to expand...
 
Pierre D. said:
Greetings to all - I hope this thread is still monitored!
I came across it today while researching Swift Audubon 8.5x,44 binocular history and have just joined the forum.

I just acquired a vintage Swift Audubon 8.5 x 44 this past Friday.
VG condition, crystal clear optics, perfect collimation.

Overall impression:
Astounding image quality, especially when considering the age of this bino !Best image quality of any binocular I own. On par with or better than some high-end binos I have personal experience with, to include the issue M22 Steiner & Fujinon binoculars as well as various Hertel & Reuss, Carl Zeiss, Leica, Kern binos I have had an opportunity to use during a 20 + year career in the US Army.

++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++

Description, FYI and your historical files:

- Left side prism plate marked with Swift logo as well as:
"FULLY COATED OPTICS" & "FEATHERWIGHT"

- Right side prism plate marked: 'No. 12-610066'.
Assuming this follows the Swift SOP of the last 2 digits of year of manufacture being the first 2 digits of the 6-digit string of #s then that dates this binocular to 1961.
If this is the correct date, then this is an early production model.

- It has the characteristics described in the 3-part research paper I just downloded from this thread (in post #15), by Edward M. Huff and Renze de Vries - except:
The focus wheel is not in the hinge, rather it is the more conventional ocular focus bridge setup with a right side diopter with a 3.5 +/- range. The wheel itself is a typical period aluminum design with machined ridges, approx 1 cm wide.

As listed on prism plates:
- FULLY COATED OPTICS
- FOV: 420 ft @ 100 yds

- Not sure if the ocular is of the 5-part 'Erfle' type or not as I don't know what to look for, but I suspect it is since it's visibly different than the more standard ocular systems I am familiar with. It has a screw-up/down aluminum eyecups with a 5mm range of adjustement. The 22mm ocular lens dia. is significantly larger than most binoculars.

Stamped on front of objective end of hinge arms:
JB45 - which indicates Tamron Co., Ltd., Tokyo as the final assembly company.

Body has strap lugs, not rings
and does not have a threaded tripod adapter

JE47 - which indicates Tokuhiro Koki Seisakusho Inc., Tokyo as the manuf of the bino body.

++++++++++++++

Questions:
Appreciate any answers from members with subject matter knowledge that are still monitoring this thread:

Please refer to attached photos for clarification

1) Is this indeed a model 804 Mark II ?
If YES, what type is it? ie: 1, 1a, 1b etc?
If I understand correctly type 2 production began in 1971, so assuming I have a type 1.

2) Does it have the Erfle type ocular system?

3) Does it have BaK prisms ?

4) Would the optics have been FMC this early in the prodcution - 1961 ?


I thank all for your interest, I look forward to an ongoing dialogue on this thread!

Pierre
Click to expand...

Hi Pierre,

Sorry not to respond sooner. I'll comment at greater length in the next few days, but for right now I believe the answers to all your questions are "yes," with the possible exception of #4.

Thanks for pointing me to this thread, Renze.

Ed
 
Hi Pierre,

Sorry to take so long, but ... oh, you don't really want to know. Let's just say that Renze and I last worked on this in late September 2013, and, because of the interval, a few memory traces had to be coaxed out of hiding.

Actually, it became evident yours isn't the lowest s/n 504 Audubon we've seen (sorry about that), which is 12-605066 (see pics below) and which motivated our Sept 2013 discussion. HOWEVER, yours is from the second year of Swift Instruments production (1961), and as far as I can tell is identical to it.

Why is that important? For one thing because "Model No. 804" does not appear on the right cover plate above the serial number. And that is a characteristic of all the Audubons produced by the predecessor company, Swift & Anderson. Back in the 1950's, when the unique 8.5x44 Audubon configuration was originally designed, you see, 504 was a catalog number, not a model number. Incidentally, the ® shown with the Swift bullseye logo on the left cover plate was first introduced in 1960 with the formation of the new Swift Instruments company. Before that the Swift registration mark also didn't appear.

When we re-write the article, therefore, we'll need to include a correct picture of Type 1a, which we can now say was sold from 1960 to 1961 and possibly 1962. What we incorrectly showed as Type 1a was taken from the 1963 Catalog, so it should be relabeled a Type 1b. (See how crazy this is?)

To summarize, the "original" Swift Audubon was designed in the late 1950s. This is what Renze referred to as Type 0. It was produced through the 1959-1960 transition from Swift & Anderson to Swift Instruments, and was sold at least through 1961 (but no later than 1962), as Type 1a in Swift Instruments history.

If you can take some nice pictures of your specimen, I think we can consider it for the cover of our updated paper. :t:

Again, sorry for taking this long.

Ed

PS. I forgot. All Type-0 Audubons had Fully Coated Optics (FC) since at least 1959.
 

Attachments

  • Audubon 1960 SI Type 1a Cover Plates.JPG
    Audubon 1960 SI Type 1a Cover Plates.JPG
    52.8 KB · Views: 471
  • Audubon 1960 Type 1a Front.JPG
    Audubon 1960 Type 1a Front.JPG
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Ed
Appreciate all your research efforts - always interesting to me to find out more about the Swift Audubon - and yes, I do see how crazy this can get!
I believe you and Renze are putting more time,effort and logic into categorizing the various iterations of the Model 804 than Swift & Anderson / Swift Instruments ever did.

I shall endeavour to take the best possible photos of my '61 Audubon and provide those to you. Do you want me to post them on this forum or is there an email address you would prefer me to send them to? Let me know.

All the Best,
Pierre

elkcub said:
Hi Pierre,

Sorry to take so long, but ... oh, you don't really want to know. Let's just say that Renze and I last worked on this in late September 2013, and, because of the interval, a few memory traces had to be coaxed out of hiding.

Actually, it became evident yours isn't the lowest s/n 504 Audubon we've seen (sorry about that), which is 12-605066 (see pics below) and which motivated our Sept 2013 discussion. HOWEVER, yours is from the second year of Swift Instruments production (1961), and as far as I can tell is identical to it.

Why is that important? For one thing because "Model No. 804" does not appear on the right cover plate above the serial number. And that is a characteristic of all the Audubons produced by the predecessor company, Swift & Anderson. Back in the 1950's, when the unique 8.5x44 Audubon configuration was originally designed, you see, 504 was a catalog number, not a model number. Incidentally, the ® shown with the Swift bullseye logo on the left cover plate was first introduced in 1960 with the formation of the new Swift Instruments company. Before that the Swift registration mark also didn't appear.

When we re-write the article, therefore, we'll need to include a correct picture of Type 1a, which we can now say was sold from 1960 to 1961 and possibly 1962. What we incorrectly showed as Type 1a was taken from the 1963 Catalog, so it should be relabeled a Type 1b. (See how crazy this is?)

To summarize, the "original" Swift Audubon was designed in the late 1950s. This is what Renze referred to as Type 0. It was produced through the 1959-1960 transition from Swift & Anderson to Swift Instruments, and was sold at least through 1961 (but no later than 1962), as Type 1a in Swift Instruments history.

If you can take some nice pictures of your specimen, I think we can consider it for the cover of our updated paper. :t:

Again, sorry for taking this long.

Ed

PS. I forgot. All Type 0 Audubons were FMC since at least 1959.
Click to expand...
 
The three pdfs in post 15 were compiled some years ago.

Have these documents been updated and if so where may I find them?

Thanks,

Graham
 
Grimnir said:
The three pdfs in post 15 were compiled some years ago.

Have these documents been updated and if so where may I find them?

Thanks,

Graham
Click to expand...

I'm sorry to say the article has not been updated, although a number of clarifications have been posted on this thread over the years. We've had it in mind to complete a rewrite, although it's been a challenge.

Overall, the manufacturing dates of several variants need to be corrected, but most importantly the original Audubon, which appeared in 1958, and subsequent changes that occurred before and after the company changed from Swift & Anderson to Swift Instruments in 1960, need to be made clear. Offhand, I think we can maintain the same basic classification system, although it turns out that between 1958 and 1965 there was a major mechanical redesign, accompanied by distinct eyecup variations for each.

Let me know if you have specific questions.

Ed
 
Ed,

Well, first of all thank you both very much for compiling the report in the first place - it was of great assistance to me when I recently bought an Audubon which I hope will be delivered to me in a couple of days.

I don't have any particular questions at the moment but I'll post them here when they occur to me.

Graham
 

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