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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 02:49   #326
John A Roberts
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To illustrate a number of points in Henry’s post (#291):

A) Clearly the x32 SF (image 1, as provided by range in post #294, and lightened to better show the focuser rod)
differs fundamentally to the earlier x42 SF (image 2), both in relation to:
- objective construction, and
- eyepiece construction

B) And the x32 SF uses the same 1-2 objective configuration as the original Swarovski x42 SLC’s (image 3)
(this is in contrast the later introduced x50 and x56 SLC’s which used a 2-1 objective - like the x42 SF)


Looking at the x32 SF image:
- the focuser doublet fits into the focuser cage
- the front lens seems to fit into the ring located between the two groups in the illustration (?)
- the eyepiece comprises 6 groups - so at least 6 lenses
- the second last eyepiece group appears to be a doublet (as indicated by the central groove?), and
- there may very well be other doublets in the eyepiece unit

As Henry indicates, a less whiz-bang image would be far more useful


John


p.s. I've attached a view from the Zeiss video showing a somewhat different angle. It makes clear that the rear face of the focus wheel engages the focus mechanism
And on closer viewing the video showed that the front objective lens does seat in the ring that is shown between the front and rear objective groups
Attached Thumbnails
Click image for larger version

Name:	SF x32.jpg
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ID:	720398  Click image for larger version

Name:	SF x42.jpg
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ID:	720399  Click image for larger version

Name:	Original SLC x42.jpg
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ID:	720400  Click image for larger version

Name:	Alternate view.jpg
Views:	53
Size:	99.2 KB
ID:	720405  

Last edited by John A Roberts : Saturday 7th March 2020 at 07:49.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 06:41   #327
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Is there a way to see how active a person has been?
Not on any particular thread but a look on their public profile will show how many posts they have made since joining Birdforum.

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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 07:28   #328
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What about the color ?
Still the famous Zeiss green cast or they improve toward more neutral color. ?
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 07:59   #329
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It looked neutral to me but I have never seen a green cast in any SF42. And I would really need to use the bino on many different days in different habitats with different light, to be confident about this. A full review would be needed.

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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 08:35   #330
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I’d have thought that the previous generation would have been sold as “colour free”, can’t be much left to reduce?? At last a company expanding the view to where E2 users are used to? (Which aren’t exactly generous) Now for the detailed comparison!

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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 08:40   #331
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Originally Posted by GLOBETROTTER View Post
What about the color ?
Still the famous Zeiss green cast or they improve toward more neutral color. ?
Your the only member on BF that reported this issue and returned your unit, other owners such as myself have not noticed any greenish hues - please stop exagerated mischief making and listen to others views, thanks. Maybe you will have an opportunity to review the new 32mm soon. I'm excited about looking through a pair

P
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 10:12   #332
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Quote:
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Not on any particular thread but a look on their public profile will show how many posts they have made since joining Birdforum.

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Yes, but the quote - and thus question - was about the total views.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 10:53   #333
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views of this thread...
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 11:32   #334
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Quote:
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Hi Alex,

Welcome to BirdForum

After >17300 views it was about time. edit: that Zeiss finally launched it.

Jan
After 17600 views...........

Last edited by jan van daalen : Saturday 7th March 2020 at 11:35.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 11:40   #335
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Quote:
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Your the only member on BF that reported this issue and returned your unit, other owners such as myself have not noticed any greenish hues - please stop exagerated mischief making and listen to others views, thanks. Maybe you will have an opportunity to review the new 32mm soon. I'm excited about looking through a pair

P
I'm not the only one who has reported green cast on Zeiss binoculars, many people complain about it also on this forum.

Green cast is a Zeiss signature to enhance contrast since long long time ago, and was very strong on at least first units of SF, Sure i need to check last units to see if still present.

Observing with Zeiss binoculars in a green landscape like in UK is very different than observing brown landscapes like those in Spain, in this case those beautiful greens goes to ugly and muted browns.
I am very happy with my 8X54 HT just because the green cast is weak compared to first generations of SF that's why i have it and only use it on cloudy dark winter days.

Colours on binoculars.

http://www.greatestbinoculars.com/al...rightness.html

blue-green centric transmission curve ( The View part of the review )

http://scopeviews.co.uk/ZeissVictory7X42FL.htm

As soon the new SF x32 become available i will check it and the latest SF X42 model again.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 12:35   #336
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GLOBETROTTER View Post

Green cast is a Zeiss signature to enhance contrast since long long time ago, and was very strong on at least first units of SF, Sure i need to check last units to see if still present.

Observing with Zeiss binoculars in a green landscape like in UK is very different than observing brown landscapes like those in Spain, in this case those beautiful greens goes to ugly and muted browns.
I have an early grey SF 10x42 and black SF 8x42 and have used both on the almost bare limestone causses of Southern France and never saw any green cast. Neither have I seen it on the huge white shell-sand beaches of the Western Isles of Scotland.

I am not trying to tell you that you didn't see it, but I haven't seen it in any Zeiss binoculars, so I certainly wouldn't describe this as a signature.

Hope you get to try out the SF32s in May.

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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 12:49   #337
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My community complains a lot about the hue of SF 42, but it is not a green cast, but more a yellowish thing.
I can feel the tint but I'm not bothered, however some other people are cos every eye is different on color sensitivity.
Hope the 32 do better than 42.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 13:21   #338
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
I have an early grey SF 10x42 and black SF 8x42 and have used both on the almost bare limestone causses of Southern France and never saw any green cast. Neither have I seen it on the huge white shell-sand beaches of the Western Isles of Scotland.

I am not trying to tell you that you didn't see it, but I haven't seen it in any Zeiss binoculars, so I certainly wouldn't describe this as a signature.

Hope you get to try out the SF32s in May.

Lee

The main factor to notice any color cast is the target itself, the kind of landscape and its colours.

The problem is the coating, SF coating are strong reddish so greens are strongly represented
HT coating have are reddish and also there is a green reflection on it, in consequence the green cast is less pronounced.

Tobias Mennle says on Greatest binoculars website.

Colour reproduction
to my eyes is problematic with a green cast. This is the second serious fault in the SFs design. To me images often look a bit sick and muddy because of it. White objects, especially if in bright sun, will look white, as our brain will correct a lot of colour casts and bright highlights seem more robust with regards to colour casts. Midtones are stronger affected, as in grey birds. Accordingly, greens sparkle very saturated, but purples and skin tones are a bit subdued. Red autumn foliage will look browner and more desaturated compared with other glasses. Zeiss is really pushing it hard here and I resent this approach from the bottom of my heart. Zeiss, please change it.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 13:27   #339
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I am a big Zeiss fan, a have a nice collection of old Zeiss Bins, and believe me that the first person not happy to complain about this is myself.

As photographer i have also few Zeiss camera lenses and not one of them have the coating color of SF Binocular, the only Binoculars who had so strong Reddish coating are My Carl Zeiss Jena 12x50B Nobilem Spezial, and even this binoculars despite the Strong Reddish coating have also a faint blue reflection.

So ZEISS tray to correct it.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 14:12   #340
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Up to now I have not taken part in the discussion about the possible color cast of the Zeiss SF. However, my observations do not show any green color cast and these observations are solidly backed up by the transmission spectra we have measured for the SF's.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 14:15   #341
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Originally Posted by GLOBETROTTER View Post
Tobias Mennle says on Greatest binoculars website.

Colour reproduction
to my eyes is problematic with a green cast. This is the second serious fault in the SFs design. To me images often look a bit sick and muddy because of it. White objects, especially if in bright sun, will look white, as our brain will correct a lot of colour casts and bright highlights seem more robust with regards to colour casts.
What can I say? I have never seen this cast in any Zeiss binos. And it seems Tobias is saying that the pure white sands of the Western Isles only look white because my brain makes a correction.

Well, if my brain makes this correction and white sands appear white to me, then I think I will not worry about this.

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Last edited by Troubador : Saturday 7th March 2020 at 14:18.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 14:38   #342
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https://www.allbinos.com/304-binocul..._SF_10x42.html

https://www.allbinos.com/upload2/163...nsm_victSF.jpg


Whiteness of the image Noticeable loss of blue and purple light. Slight yellow-green hue.

Last edited by GLOBETROTTER : Saturday 7th March 2020 at 14:40.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 15:09   #343
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https://www.allbinos.com/304-binocul..._SF_10x42.html
[url]https://www.allbinos.com/upload2/163773_transm_victSF.jpg[/url
Whiteness of the image Noticeable loss of blue and purple light. Slight yellow-green hue.
In the Summary - 12 Pros against 1 Concern ( internal reflection ) so any slight notice of hue is not considered serious enough to list it as a negative in the conclusion by the tester. I say again, your use of the phrase " famous green cast " is somewhat exaggerated. Your choice, view and why you do not use a pair - that is fine. But please balance your critique with the fact that there exists many experienced users who do not see this phenomenon.

I look forward to your thoughts when you test a pair of 32mm, knowing you may well be driven by searching for and finding the insignificant colour cast. Let us also see what albino reviews and other evaluators report.

Regards.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 15:14   #344
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views of this thread...
Thanks dalat! I finally understood.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 15:33   #345
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A green bias in some (I haven't seen them all) Zeiss binoculars has been evident to me since 2007 when I first bought a Lotutec coated FL. See the post below from 2009.

https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=30
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 16:26   #346
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But, Henry, wouldn‘t a green bias also necessarily show up in the transmission spectrum?
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 16:37   #347
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A green bias in some (I haven't seen them all) Zeiss binoculars has been evident to me since 2007 when I first bought a Lotutec coated FL. See the post below from 2009.

https://www.birdforum.net/showpost.p...0&postcount=30
Hi Henry.

Did you notice any different colour or intensity on early and late FL coatings ?

The light not transmitted is light reflected in the color of the optical coating, on SF the reflected light is very strong on the objective lenses but on Zeiss FL and HT models the reflection is more subtle, giving the impression of more transparent lenses.

Did you see how complex and different is the coating on the Leica Noctivid ?

They have faint reflections of all colours from other to inner lenses different from than the reddish reflection on Zeiss Binoculars.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 17:56   #348
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Thanks dalat! I finally understood.
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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 18:06   #349
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Hi Canip,

I have three transmission spectra for the 8x56 FL on my old computer (Gijs, Allbinos and Zeiss). If my memory is correct they are in decent agreement that its peak transmission is in the green/yellow and rolls off somewhat prematurely in both the red and blue. It makes sense to me that relatively early roll off of the transmission in both blue and red could cause a green or green/yellow bias. I'll try to find those plots and add them later.

Globetrotter,

I still have the 2004 8x42 FL and the 2007 8x56 Lotutec FL. Vivid magenta reflections dominate the returns from the lenses in the 8x56 along with a few blue ones. The are more blue reflections combined with more subdued magenta reflections returning from the early 8x42. I haven't had a chance to see a Noctivid.

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Old Saturday 7th March 2020, 19:42   #350
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What can I say? I have never seen this cast in any Zeiss binos. And it seems Tobias is saying that the pure white sands of the Western Isles only look white because my brain makes a correction.

Well, if my brain makes this correction and white sands appear white to me, then I think I will not worry about this.

Lee
Your brain will adopt the white, it would adopt the white even if it were bright greenp, but other tones will get muddied. IF there is a cast. My Zeiss Pocket 8x25 have a greenish cast, this is considered desirable in Japan where they are made. I would prefer more neutral. I love the color of my Leica 7x42 UV HD. Btw, I used to be a member of the ICC.

Edmund

Last edited by eronald : Saturday 7th March 2020 at 19:44.
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