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Relaxed view

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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 17:46   #1
Spartan J
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Relaxed view

I have seen the term relaxed view ,my question is what exactly is a relaxed view and what contributes and takes away from it.? It sounds good to these old eyes !
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 17:54   #2
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I think it differs somewhat between users, especially w/regard to distortion and field curvature/flatness characteristics, but in general, I think it is achieved by having a large exit pupil, appropriate eye-relief, and a view that one regards as wide open, with excellent contrast, and well-resolved.

--AP
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 17:57   #3
Steve C
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There is no strict definition of the term. It essentially refers to the total suitability of the image that a particular binocular presents to an individual pair of eyes. In my case when reviewing a binocular I have a standard sort of test I use. After using the glass, I simply force myself to relax. Relax everything, facial muscles, back, arms everything. I'm not talking about going limp and dropping the binocular or falling down. Many times the amount of relaxation you feel is strictly apparent. A really good fit between you and the binocular is apparent in how much tension is not released by doing this. The longer you can use a glass without tensing yourself up while glassing, the better you will feel at the end of the day. I can tell you what works for me, but you will ultimately need to answer that one for yourself.

Image quality, field of view, magnification, contrast, aberration control, color balance, collimation, ease of handling, eye relief, and anything else all fit into the picture here.
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 18:10   #4
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A few things that help. Good depth of field, good collimation, , sufficient eye relief and exit pupil to avoid blackouts, a wide angle view so you can see things out the corner of your eye and find stuff quickly, stable mounting, IPD and eye focus adjust set corectly, good stray light baffling of the eye pieces against ambient light. If you feel eye strain then you’ll know something is not quite right. With the right setup you can spend hours observing the world from a distance.

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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 18:13   #5
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If you haven't seen it this thread deals with the subject.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread...t=relaxed+view

I take a stab at making a list of requirements in post #28.

Henry
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 20:23   #6
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Henry:
Thanks for posting a link to that other thread. That pretty well sums things up ......
A large exit pupil is one of the most important things, the rest follow.
A small 8x20 binocular will not fit in this area of a relaxed view, for example.

This subject is very subjective.

Jerry
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 20:35   #7
WJC
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I have seen the term relaxed view, my question is what exactly is a relaxed view and what contributes and takes away from it.? It sounds good to these old eyes !
From my article in Southern Boating, last fall:


FINALLY, THE IMPORTANCE OF LEARNING TO STARE

Your mother probably taught you it’s not nice to stare. However, for the most pleasing observing experience you had better forget that advice.

There are two phases to focusing a binocular. The first concerns the focus mechanism—the actuation of the focus knob, diopter ring, or flip lever. That’s the one seen almost exclusively by the observer.

The second is through the involuntary focusing of the eye through the eyelens being stretched or compressed by the eye’s ciliary muscles. Our brains want to see things in focus quickly and will use those muscles to the detriment of the viewing experience.

Let’s suppose you want to see a target at a certain distance and start turning the focus knob to achieve the best image. The target may become sharply focused for you at -4 diopters, although your “at rest” diopter setting should be -1. Yes, the image is focused, but only so at a strained setting. Then, when you start adjusting the binocular’s focus mechanism—without considering the importance of staring—you will repeat the mistake and the problem remains.

Learning to stare can prevent the eye’s involuntary input and limits focusing to that achieved through the binocular’s focus mechanism. This leaves the observer in control of whole focusing operation as opposed to having the two aspects of focusing fight each other while you try to attain and accurate focus for an object at a given distance.

No, don’t thank me ... just send money. 

William Cook is a former Chief Opticalman for the Navy and author of [i]BINOCULARS: Fallacy & Fact[i].

Bill
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Old Monday 9th March 2020, 23:32   #8
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Well as usual I have learned from each of you thanks! There is a problem I've had without knowing why till now thanks to WJC .I find myself focusing in my glass and latter I find the diopter setting is off ,then the next time I go out the diopter is off again .I have been blaming the binoculars but I can see your point.Next time I go out I will test this out.I never had this problem before older eyes new glasses .I focus on print letters in the house then go outside and have to refocus om a street sign.
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Old Tuesday 10th March 2020, 15:59   #9
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Originally Posted by Spartan J View Post
Well as usual I have learned from each of you thanks! There is a problem I've had without knowing why till now thanks to WJC .I find myself focusing in my glass and latter I find the diopter setting is off ,then the next time I go out the diopter is off again .I have been blaming the binoculars but I can see your point.Next time I go out I will test this out.I never had this problem before older eyes new glasses .I focus on print letters in the house then go outside and have to refocus om a street sign.
200310

Hi Spartan J,

Last thing, first.

You are NOT going to alleviate the last thing you mentioned. When in the house, focusing on newsprint, you are focusing only a few inches away; when outside, focusing on the street sign, you’re focusing several feet away at best. This REQUIRES refocusing. There’s no way around that.

When you’re 10-years old, you might have as much as 14 diopters of accommodation. But because of the aging eyelens/ciliary muscle combination, that drops off fairly rapidly. By 45, it has dropped to about 4 diopters. And by 60 the most you can expect is 2 diopters and glasses have become a necessity. The fault IS the binocular. However, that “binocular” is biological.

Finally, I’d like to mention that some people bellyache about their binocular having only ONE “diopter adjustment.” This is just not so! Just because there are no numerals on the other doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. The center focus wheel or flip is a diopter adjustment—a focus mechanism—and performs the SAME function as the diopter ring.

cheer,

Bill

PS What part of West MI are you from? I have lived from Benton Harbor to Hartford.
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Old Tuesday 10th March 2020, 22:37   #10
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THANKS Bill, One question I I took my 8X32's outside and focused in on a sign and they seem good at all ranges outside,bur I noticed o er the last 3 years or so the diopter ring is farther clockwise than it was in the past .It's just about hitting it's stop point .I live at the home port of the USS Badger a little more remote than BH
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Old Tuesday 10th March 2020, 23:42   #11
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THANKS Bill, One question I I took my 8X32's outside and focused in on a sign and they seem good at all ranges outside,bur I noticed o er the last 3 years or so the diopter ring is farther clockwise than it was in the past .It's just about hitting it's stop point .I live at the home port of the USS Badger a little more remote than BH
200310

Hi Spartan J:

I’ll believe you live at the homeport of the SS Badger, but if at the homeport of the USS Badger, you must have a HUGE supply of scuba gear! Wasn’t the Badger one of the 4 Fast Frigates so poorly used in 2001’s Pearl Harbor? So much other stuff was believable. But those frigates had their keels laid in the 1960s.

Anyway, to your problem. When we get old enough ... our eyes usually start slowing down in their changes. Thus, I am more inclined to believe your problem is mechanical.

This can be caused by the loosening of one or more screws. As seen on page 26, attached, the focus of the objective and the eyepiece have to meet in order to form a good image. If that is your problem, it may be corrected by recessing the objective a bit. It MAY not be cost effective but it is an option. Cory Suddarth and I could do this in our sleep. However, he’s the last man standing; I’m relegated to WRITING about such, these days.

‘Hope this helps,

Bill
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 00:08   #12
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BILL ,This is what happens when your brain is as old as your old eyes.I meant to say SS Badger sorry. My 7x50'S diopter setting has been in the same location sense 1989 .what diopter system in roof binoculars is the most reliable with locking or without ? I'm looking for a new pair of glass I need a little more IR with my new frame style that I will be keeping
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 02:37   #13
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I think this is a good topic. Perhaps for me the best answer is "you'll know it when you see it". My Nikon 8x32SE's, Leica 8x32BNs, and B and L 7x26 series 4's have relaxed views. My Zeiss Conquest 8x32HD does not. It does, however, have the best resolution and contrast. The Zeiss demand attention and wear me out birding all day. The others do not. However, the Zeiss have a pop, crispness, and clarity the others lack.
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Old Wednesday 11th March 2020, 15:59   #14
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BILL ,This is what happens when your brain is as old as your old eyes.I meant to say SS Badger sorry. My 7x50'S diopter setting has been in the same location sense 1989 .what diopter system in roof binoculars is the most reliable with locking or without ? I'm looking for a new pair of glass I need a little more IR with my new frame style that I will be keeping
200311

Hi Spartan J.,

“BILL ,This is what happens when your brain is as old as your old eyes.”

About 10 years ago, I decided I was going to live forever. AND ... so far, so good!

“My 7x50'S diopter setting has been in the same location sense 1989 .”

If that is so, it can mean only 2 things:

1) You only look at objects a certain distance from you. Or,
2) You are pleased with a view that is far inferior to what it should be.

Steiner started that “auto-focus” fraud back in the 80s, which dominated the 90s. But, there are no “auto-focus” binoculars, except for those who know nothing about optics but believe everything they read.

“what diopter system in roof binoculars is the most reliable with locking or without ?”

This is a non-issue; if it works, it works. I realize bino forums are made up largely by those who spend their time trying to stack BBs. Don’t let yourself get sucked into that. “Ultracrepidarian” is a great word and applies here in spades.

Cheers and good hunting,

Bill
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Old Sunday 15th March 2020, 15:23   #15
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Hi Spartan J.,

What roof did you decide on?

Bill
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Old Sunday 15th March 2020, 23:00   #16
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Bill, I like the side of the 8×32 but none of them I see have enough IR,so I'm looking for a 8×42 I'm putting a max outlay of $700.00 . I have not used Ebay sense one of their rule changes back 15 years ago or so.I'm a little overwhelmed by all the variables. That's where I'm at now .
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 01:45   #17
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Bill, I like the side of the 8×32 but none of them I see have enough IR,so I'm looking for a 8×42 I'm putting a max outlay of $700.00 . I have not used Ebay sense one of their rule changes back 15 years ago or so.I'm a little overwhelmed by all the variables. That's where I'm at now .
8x32 or 10x42, both are good choices. For birding, I use the 8x32 SE and have done so before people started calling it an "ALPHA."

Cheers,

Bill
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 16:29   #18
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If I could find a pair of 8×32's with an ER of 18 or 19mm great .10 power well I can't hold them steady .I would like maybe better glass ,while I'm at it.Sure I might have to put up with a little more weight that fine.700 dollars is my max.spinning my tires a little.On the other hand the 6.5 kowas are interesting but ER and glass a little under my criteria.
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 17:47   #19
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If I could find a pair of 8×32's with an ER of 18 or 19mm great .10 power well I can't hold them steady .I would like maybe better glass ,while I'm at it.Sure I might have to put up with a little more weight that fine.700 dollars is my max.spinning my tires a little.On the other hand the 6.5 kowas are interesting but ER and glass a little under my criteria.
Nikon SE, HGL or EDG are strong contenders then... depending on your luck and the depth of your pockets...
Although my personal easy viewing favorite is a Leitz Trinovid 7x42BA. Huge depth of field, so refocusing is rarely necessary plus nice edge sharpness and great eye relief with the long rubber fold-down caps down or removed and good stray light isolation for me w/o glasses.

The Leica BA/BN versions (aka the brick) are optically quite similar (except for later coatings) but are quite a bit heavier.

Joachim
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Old Monday 16th March 2020, 23:52   #20
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My 42 oz B & L's are like that reduced focusing and comfortable on my eyes ,but to heavy to carry and hold anymore.
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Old Thursday 19th March 2020, 01:59   #21
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I just read about the upcoming zeiss 8×32 SF' might just work light long IR .
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Old Thursday 19th March 2020, 06:00   #22
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I don't consider any of the many 8x32s I have tried or owned to qualify as a relaxed view.
The Nikon SE and Swaro SV are most comfortable for me, but as a lover of 7x42s, no 8x32 is going to compare favourably with them.
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Old Saturday 21st March 2020, 01:01   #23
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I see .guess I will change my direction again .

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Old Saturday 21st March 2020, 02:48   #24
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Spartan,

If you can, try the Nikon Monarch 8X42. It is a very light in weight glass, has a wide view and it is at or slightly above your budget of $700. Additionally it is on the smaller side for a 8X42. Regarding ER, try one and see if it provides enough.

Andy W.
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Old Saturday 21st March 2020, 18:52   #25
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Yes.Ive also spotted to day a brand new to me the Tract 8×42.Not much info on them even on youtube.Can any one fill in the gaps ? I know FOV is a little less than others 8×42's but it's no a deal breaker if the focus wheel and glass are at least better then what I have.im kind of tied to 700.00 on glass .After having to get a new phone and Air Rifle that's all that's left this quarter after a few thousand $ out lay in the last 4 weeks on repairs and replacements septic,refer.and auto.Gee no space inbetween.Can not touch investments to low right now .Typical timing.
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