Join for FREE
It only takes a minute!
More discoveries. NEW: Zeiss Victory SF 32

Welcome to BirdForum.
BirdForum is the net's largest birding community, dedicated to wild birds and birding, and is absolutely FREE! You are most welcome to register for an account, which allows you to take part in lively discussions in the forum, post your pictures in the gallery and more.

The Green ghost ( Zeiss SF 8X42 )

Reply
 
Thread Tools Rate Thread
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 16:29   #51
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by eronald View Post
There are too many independent reports now for this effect to be written of as imaginary.

Edmund
Perhaps, but is it the glass or the individual? Let's see some light transmission charts that show what people are responding to. I'd especially like to see one that clearly shows a green bias, vs. one that is more neutral with a different sample.

Just taking the color test shows that people on the forum have different levels of acuity, (as well as different calibrated monitors and devices they are viewing on...)

To me, the effect would have to be noticed by hundreds, if not thousands of customers, for it to be a meaningful issue. Here in this forum is a bunch of hair splitting bb stacking bino geeks, and there is no consensus.

I've seen warm and cool differences between binoculars, in direct comparison, but not the explicit 'green' bias that some have claimed. Go look through a 50 year old pair of binoculars, and you'll likely see a very yellow bias. What's being discussed here is something much more subtle, that in my opinion, the eye/brain generally adapts to in short order.

-Bill
wdc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 17:29   #52
Conndomat
Registered User
 
Conndomat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
Perhaps, but is it the glass or the individual?
How do you explain the fact that people look through many of binoculars and only notice this effect with the SF?
If you can answer this question plausibly, would we be one step further ?!

Andreas

P.S.My girlfriend saw it too, without my notifying her!
Her first comment ... "wow, a huge field of view ... and then .." but the picture is more greener than in my Victory 8x32.

P.P.S.
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
and there is no consensus.
Is there a consensus about the rolling ball effect, chromatic aberrations, edge sharpness, etc.
the optical properties of binoculars are always controversial!

Last edited by Conndomat : Thursday 12th March 2020 at 17:38.
Conndomat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 19:11   #53
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 10,045
[quote=Conndomat;3968592]

How do you explain the fact that people look through many of binoculars and only notice this effect with the SF?

Andreas


But which effect do you mean Andreas? The green one or the yellow one or the red-green one?

Lee
__________________
"You are never alone, with a sheep"
Troubador is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 19:46   #54
henry link
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: north carolina
Posts: 4,591
I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
henry link is online now  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 20:33   #55
NDhunter
Registered User
 
NDhunter's Avatar

 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Praire Pothole Country
Posts: 4,310
Henry:

That thread really hashed things out, I just read pg. 1 of 8. I can see the color bias in your example, so
something is there.

What I don't see is any unusual tint in the view of the Victory SF. I will admit I really like the colors of the Nikon LX models, part of the Nikon view, that some would call warm.

Jerry
NDhunter is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 22:07   #56
tenex
Registered User
 
tenex's Avatar

 
Join Date: Nov 2015
Location: Colorado
Posts: 803
Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link View Post
I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.
Your photo is very reminiscent of the blue-green bar on the Xrite color test I just took. It's obvious that the two bino views are less purely blue than the background, headed in a green direction. I can't easily say which is farthest because they're not adjacent. I can't say whether the bino color cast itself is green or yellow, because the background is blue and either one would have this effect. It would be easier to judge with a neutral background, as in Tobias's photos.

Edit: Now I see you did go back and do it that way, in post #84. Now it's evident that the bino on the right (HT) is much greener than the one on the left (FL). One would expect that to be noticeable in use of the HT, not so much the FL.

Last edited by tenex : Thursday 12th March 2020 at 22:24.
tenex is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 22:17   #57
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 627
Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link View Post
I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
Thanks for posting the photos and the link Henry. I can see it in both of them, relative to the background... just slightly yellow/green. The HT and the FL, eh? So... NOT the bino currently under investigation, but definitely a color shift. Did the HT and the FL garner similar complaints then? Again, I think whether someone actually sees it while viewing, or whether it bothers them is more or less the issue.

Most window glass in cars is tinted, and I doubt it is perfectly neutral. But when you drive for a few minutes, do you even think about the color bias of the windshield? (with the exception of the blue tint on top...)

-Bill
wdc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Thursday 12th March 2020, 22:48   #58
Chosun Juan
Given to Fly
 
Chosun Juan's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: Central West NSW, Australia
Posts: 7,241
Arrow

Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link View Post
I just read though page 1 of this old thread.

https://www.birdforum.net/showthread.php?t=321724

As you can see we've been around this block a few times before. Starting with my post #11 there are a few photos of two binoculars in front of a white background illuminated by a northern sky. I'd be curious to know what differences are noticed by the participants in this thread between the straight background light reaching the camera and the same light after it has passed through the binoculars.

Henry
Hi Henry,

Yep - I readily detect a difference between the light on the background and the light through the binoculars (more greenish yellowish tint). Viewed on a Samsung Note 3 indoors via mid-morning diffuse natural light - windows on southern and western sides + reflected northern light transferred from the other side of the house by hardwood floors and white cathedral ceiling (lovely blue sky here today). I tried with an without my transitions glasses (mostly clear inside). Same. I even tried individual left and right eyes - same result.

To be clear, what I see though the SF's (was a 2 year old model) is a very slight warmish tinge very similar to the corned silverside picture I posted earlier in this thread (makes me hungry every time I look at it ! :) , over washed with a very slight hint of greenish. This is what I mean when I refer to "green ham". It's nothing like the Dr. Seuss bright green. The SF view could also be likened to a thin veil of Neapolitan ice-cream when you mash the three colours together (tastes like Bailey's Irish Cream when you do that - yum ! :) for a kind of browny-mauve. This matches what I see in the transmission curve with it's relatively weak blue.





Chosun
Chosun Juan is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2016 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 13th March 2020, 09:13   #59
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,860
Henri,post 54,
I have again looked at your photographs, but on my screen there is no trace of green visible.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 10:01   #60
Conndomat
Registered User
 
Conndomat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
But which effect do you mean Andreas? The green one or the yellow one or the red-green one?
Hello Lee,

I mean the clear green cast in my SF!

The first look through the SF was on a foggy November day, and I immediately noticed that the fog had a clear green tinge!
Since this irritated me, I took the Zeiss Conquest 8x32 for comparison, here the fog had the typical greyish color, nothing green!

In the following weeks I hoped to get used to the color, but I feel this green extremely, especially when the sky is overcast.
It is clear that no binoculars are completely neutral in color, every binocular has a slight color shift in certain color spectra, but this can usually only be seen on closer inspection and is not a problem, with the SF I notice this shade of green in almost every situation, otherwise it would not be worth mentioning.

The question remains, if this shade of green is "produced" by the user's eyes, why doesn't it appear in other binoculars?

Andreas
Conndomat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 10:12   #61
Gilmore Girl
Beth
 
Gilmore Girl's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,842
I see the greenish tints in Henry's photo.
It's more noticeable in the FL. It looks like there's also
a touch of yellow.

I'm going to assume FL 8x32 probably has this color bias based on the photo evidence and also since
I've noticed more than once greens are more saturated looking
through it. But, I haven't noticed a "tint" or "cast" over the image in use ever.
Whites look clean white and brilliant and all other colors look true to me.
It's just a bit on the cold side compared to other binos I compared it to.

Last edited by Gilmore Girl : Friday 13th March 2020 at 19:10. Reason: Typos
Gilmore Girl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 13th March 2020, 10:18   #62
Gilmore Girl
Beth
 
Gilmore Girl's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,842
Whoever has a green armored FL you can name it 'The Green Goblin' !
Gilmore Girl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Old Friday 13th March 2020, 12:22   #63
mulligatawny owl
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Torview View Post
Me too, I like it so much I sold two SVFP`s.
And I sold my beloved SE's! :(

The SF and the little Victory x25 is a killer combination though.

Have to admit I'm a little tempted to consolidate them both one day into an 8x32 SF, with or without the green ghost!
mulligatawny owl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 13:03   #64
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,860
Well, it seems we are discussing here the differences in color sensitivity of the different eyes and not the color definition of the SF. I will explain:
- I do not see any green cast when I look with both eyes to a perfectly white surface.
- I do not see any green cast when holding the SF upside down above a perfectly white paper and look at that paper through the objective.
- the difference in light transmission between 500-650 nm is around 2,2%, that is for the eye not visible in my opinion as a color difference.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 16:03   #65
Conndomat
Registered User
 
Conndomat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Well, it seems we are discussing here the differences in color sensitivity of the different eyes and not the color definition of the SF.
I'm afraid we're going round in circles ...

Hello Gijs,

how do you explain the fact that this clear green tinge is only perceived in the SF, while it does not appear in other binoculars?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
I have seen that green cast with an early 10x42 SF model, when it was presented first at our optics store. I put that glass in front of my eyes and said loudly: Wow, green!

Months later, I had an opportunity to use both the 8x42 and 10x42, and neither one showed that green cast. I would guess that was a glitch that occurred only with a couple of early production units.
I also said "wow green" loudly when I looked at the fog...

I think just like Holger, there are still a few "green" SF floating around while Zeiss has tacitly fixed this problem.

Andreas
Conndomat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 16:34   #66
Gijs van Ginkel
Registered User

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: utrecht
Posts: 1,860
Andreas, post 65,
The only way it could be explained (by me at least) is that there are differences between early and later SF's or that quality control by Zeiss was not of continuous top quality, something I can hardly believe from what I have seen in the Zeiss factory.
Gijs van Ginkel
Gijs van Ginkel is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 16:44   #67
wdc
Registered User
 
wdc's Avatar

 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Moraga, California
Posts: 627
Andreas, post 65,
It would be useful if you could look through more samples of the SF, besides the one in your possession.

-Bill
wdc is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 17:14   #68
james holdsworth
Consulting Biologist
 
james holdsworth's Avatar

 
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: ontario
Posts: 3,315
Most of the SV's I've looked through look very blue compared to my HT - but I'm not going to say all SV's are blue-biased nor am I going to contend that what I see is what everyone else will see...
__________________
''serenity now....insanity later.'' - Lloyd Brawn
james holdsworth is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 17:46   #69
OhWeh
Registered User
 
OhWeh's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gilmore Girl View Post
Whoever has a green armored FL you can name it 'The Green Goblin' !
My green 8x32 FL is not a goblin, it is a friend! A friend who shows me the beauty of the world.
__________________
Carpe Diem!

OhWeh
OhWeh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 17:49   #70
OhWeh
Registered User
 
OhWeh's Avatar

 
Join Date: Aug 2018
Location: Bavaria
Posts: 102
Quote:
Originally Posted by james holdsworth View Post
Most of the SV's I've looked through look very blue compared to my HT - but I'm not going to say all SV's are blue-biased nor am I going to contend that what I see is what everyone else will see...
The first time I looked through the 10x42 EL from a friend, I was stunned, how cold/blue it was. But I never got this impression by other Swarovski binos, I used since.
__________________
Carpe Diem!

OhWeh
OhWeh is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 18:18   #71
Conndomat
Registered User
 
Conndomat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
Andreas, post 65,
It would be useful if you could look through more samples of the SF, besides the one in your possession.

-Bill
Bill, I saw through another SF with a very close serial number that same green...but ... what about Mr. Merlitz's statement, he looked through several SF and found the following ...???

Quote:
Originally Posted by Holger Merlitz View Post
I put that glass in front of my eyes and said loudly: Wow, green!

Months later, I had an opportunity to use both the 8x42 and 10x42, and neither one showed that green cast.
Andreas
Conndomat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 18:26   #72
mulligatawny owl
Registered User

 
Join Date: Feb 2011
Location: UK
Posts: 286
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
Andreas, post 65,
The only way it could be explained (by me at least) is that there are differences between early and later SF's or that quality control by Zeiss was not of continuous top quality, something I can hardly believe from what I have seen in the Zeiss factory.
Gijs van Ginkel
I'm not convinced by Zeiss's quality control, my SF's have a lot of internal dust visible.
mulligatawny owl is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 18:38   #73
Troubador
Moderator
 
Troubador's Avatar

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Sheffield
Posts: 10,045
Quote:
Originally Posted by Conndomat View Post
Bill, I saw through another SF with a very close serial number that same green...but ... what about Mr. Merlitz's statement, he looked through several SF and found the following ...???

Andreas
He looked through several SFs? Read the quotation Andreas.

He looked through 1 and saw green then later looked through 2 and did not see green. That is a total of 3 which really isn't ''several''. And if you refer to the SFs that he thought were green to support your case, then it was 1 (one).

Nobody is doubting what you saw Andreas, everyone is simply describing what they saw.

Lee
__________________
"You are never alone, with a sheep"
Troubador is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 18:39   #74
Conndomat
Registered User
 
Conndomat's Avatar

 
Join Date: Apr 2018
Location: United States of Europe
Posts: 193
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gijs van Ginkel View Post
The only way it could be explained (by me at least) is that there are differences between early and later SF's or that quality control by Zeiss was not of continuous top quality, something I can hardly believe from what I have seen in the Zeiss factory.
I also have no clear explanation Gijs...I will do the paper test tomorrow for security...

Andreas
Conndomat is offline  
Reply With Quote
Old Friday 13th March 2020, 18:51   #75
Gilmore Girl
Beth
 
Gilmore Girl's Avatar

 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Northeast
Posts: 2,842
Quote:
Originally Posted by OhWeh View Post
My green 8x32 FL is not a goblin, it is a friend! A friend who shows me the beauty of the world.
Gilmore Girl is offline  
Reply With Quote

BF Supporter 2013 Support BirdForum With A Donation

Advertisement
Reply


Thread Tools
Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

vB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is Off
HTML code is Off

Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
buying decision: Swarovski SLC HD 8x42 or Zeiss Victory 8x42 T*FL MeisterE Zeiss 12 Friday 7th October 2011 23:00

{googleads}

Fatbirder's Top 1000 Birding Websites

Help support BirdForum

Page generated in 0.15678692 seconds with 40 queries
All times are GMT. The time now is 23:48.