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The Green ghost ( Zeiss SF 8X42 )

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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 19:03   #76
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Making a serviceable photo of the color bias is not hard, even with a phone camera. Below I just leaned a white foam board against an outside wall on a cloudy day (just now) and lined up the binocular in front. The only refinement I used is the tripod mounting so I wouldn't have to fumble around with the phone in one hand and the binocular in the other, but with some patience it can be done hand held. Phone photos done just a casually as this one should show the color bias, if there is any.
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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 19:25   #77
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I am 68 yrs. I scored 2 wearing up close glasses.
With out glasses Left eye I can see up close right eye I can not read computer screen at normal distance left eye I can read screen with out glasses. I did not try closing one eye etc. for test. Also did not do test for a long time etc. As far as the green bias goes I would rather test looking with any binocular. I would think there could be a problem with computer/ monitor etc. I am not going to say what I think about the picture post #76

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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 19:36   #78
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conndomat View Post
I also have no clear explanation Gijs...I will do the paper test tomorrow for security...

Andreas
Maybe you should talk with Gijs to see what would be needed for him to do the same work on your SF as he has in others. Maybe there is some sort of difference with yours.

Maybe someone with the proper knowledge could suggest some sort of comparative eye test for green and non green image types. Maybe there is some physiological basis.

Since it is clear some see green, there has to be some reason. It is also pretty clear that just because some see green, that is not a sign there is a fault, or that everyone should see it too. The opposite applies.
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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 22:02   #79
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
He looked through 1 and saw green then later looked through 2 and did not see green. That is a total of 3 which really isn't ''several''.
Lee, now you're going to sophistry...

Recently a neighbor told me about a family with several children ... when asked how many there were he said three...

Bill's original statement was this one ...
Quote:
Originally Posted by wdc View Post
It would be useful if you could look through more samples of the SF, besides the one in your possession.
If I continue this statement, it includes a question ... "and did you perceive color differences between the SF?"
No I didn't, I saw two early black versions with very close serial numbers (mine and another one) that were both "green".

But someone has already seen color differences in individual SFs here, but you cleverly avoided an answer with your number games.

I think Holger is optics specialist enough to be able to see color differences in binoculars, so I trust his statement.

Andreas

Last edited by Conndomat : Friday 13th March 2020 at 22:11.
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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 22:41   #80
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligatawny owl View Post
I'm not convinced by Zeiss's quality control, my SF's have a lot of internal dust visible.
That would make me seriously p***** off with what is over here a ~$3500 bin ...... actually that was last week with all the financial market crashing it's probably up over 4K now - the price - not the resolution !




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Old Friday 13th March 2020, 23:42   #81
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This is a complex topic. Ideally one should look thru the bino at noon (6400K) , cloudy clear day (10K K), sunset and after sunset. or use transmission spectra to compute the results of pushing the above illuminants through the bino.

If a bino gets rgb but chops r and b that presumably leaves g in the middle. The difference might be most visible when what is chopped is a significant part of the adopted white, which I would expect would occur under cloudy conditions or after sunup/ before sundown.

A visual test against a light reflective background might work well because the eye tends to be most sensitive detecting light tints.

Edmund

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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 00:10   #82
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Conndomat View Post

Bill's original statement was this one ...
If I continue this statement, it includes a question ... "and did you perceive color differences between the SF?"
No I didn't, I saw two early black versions with very close serial numbers (mine and another one) that were both "green".

But someone has already seen color differences in individual SFs here,

I think Holger is optics specialist enough to be able to see color differences in binoculars, so I trust his statement.

Andreas
Andreas, What I'm hearing from you is that both of the one's you looked through had the same issue. Holger and Tobias, both looked in another bin at different times and perceived a different result. Yet no one has physically produced 2 binoculars where one has the 'green tint', and the other one doesn't, as far as I can tell. Not saying they don't exist, but that would actually constitute physical proof.

-Bill
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 03:19   #83
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Quote:
Originally Posted by henry link View Post
Making a serviceable photo of the color bias is not hard, even with a phone camera. Below I just leaned a white foam board against an outside wall on a cloudy day (just now) and lined up the binocular in front. The only refinement I used is the tripod mounting so I wouldn't have to fumble around with the phone in one hand and the binocular in the other, but with some patience it can be done hand held. Phone photos done just a casually as this one should show the color bias, if there is any.
Henry, I tried this myself today, and photographed two binoculars I had in my office at work. It was really work avoidance, rather than intense, 'scientific' inquiry... I did see a difference between the background and the view through the glass of the binoculars, and logic dictates that there absolutely should be one...

Anyways, going back to the thread where you posted multiple versions of the view(s) through an FL and an HT. My question is this: Even though you could show a difference through photography in value and color (which there should be), I don't recalll you ever making critical remarks about the HT or the FL with regard to their color fidelity when you looked through them. Is that correct? I know the elephant in the room is the SF, but you spent a fair amount of energy to demonstrate/prove a difference photographically. Do you actually SEE a difference with your own eyes when you're out birding with the FL or the HT?

-Bill
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 05:49   #84
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
That would make me seriously p***** off with what is over here a ~$3500 bin ...... actually that was last week with all the financial market crashing it's probably up over 4K now - the price - not the resolution !




Chosun
It's only because I got them used for a good price that it doesn't bother me. If I'd have bought them new they'd have gone straight back for an exchange. As it is though it doesn't affect the view at all so I'm happy with them. It took me a long time to find bins that fit me like a glove optically and ergonomically so I'm hanging on to them. They are certainly not perfect though.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 07:44   #85
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Quote:
Originally Posted by mulligatawny owl View Post
I'm not convinced by Zeiss's quality control, my SF's have a lot of internal dust visible.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
That would make me seriously p***** off with what is over here a ~$3500 bin ...... actually that was last week with all the financial market crashing it's probably up over 4K now - the price - not the resolution !




Chosun
As much as I love my SF`s I feel the same, despite being away for six weeks at the Zeiss factory because of internal dust, they have returned with still a lot (but much less) dust inside, frankly I can`t be bothered to start the whole process again, my gut feeling is this is as good as it gets with Zeiss.

I never saw as much as a speck in any of my Swaro`s.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 08:58   #86
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[quote=Conndomat;3968854

The first look through the SF was on a foggy November day, and I immediately noticed that the fog had a clear green tinge.................................
with the SF I notice this shade of green in almost every situation[/QUOTE]

I had very similar experience with a Meopta Meostar 7x42 several years ago. On foggy and very overcast days I could see a very yellow tone when looking at the sky or in to fog. It was a very strong golden yellow.
My experience differs though because I only saw it very occasionally in these circumstances, it didn’t “stay with me” afterwards in other viewing conditions.
I decided it was just a characteristic of the bins and not a problem or issue.
I sold the Meoptas but I wish I hadn’t. Lovely bins to use, great ergonomics despite their weight.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 09:55   #87
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Originally Posted by Boogieshrew View Post
I had very similar experience with a Meopta Meostar 7x42 several years ago. On foggy and very overcast days I could see a very yellow tone when looking at the sky or in to fog. It was a very strong golden yellow.
My experience differs though because I only saw it very occasionally in these circumstances, it didn’t “stay with me” afterwards in other viewing conditions.
I decided it was just a characteristic of the bins and not a problem or issue.
I sold the Meoptas but I wish I hadn’t. Lovely bins to use, great ergonomics despite their weight.
Only one time I noticed a slight tint in one of my binos.
It was the Cabellas Meostar HD 8x32 which I had briefly.
I noticed by accident a slight yellow-ish tint. When I first took
it out of the box it was at night and I was fooling around with it
and looking at stuff inside. I have a led daylight lamp and it shines light
against the white wall. I then compared it to my Ultravid 7x42 against the
white light. The Ultravid looked white while the Meostar looked slightly off white
with subtle yellow tint , more like cream color.

Maybe this weekend I'll compare the FL with Swaro CL on that same wall.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 10:24   #88
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Originally Posted by Gilmore Girl View Post
Only one time I noticed a slight tint in one of my binos.
It was the Cabellas Meostar HD 8x32 which I had briefly.
I noticed by accident a slight yellow-ish tint. When I first took
it out of the box it was at night and I was fooling around with it
and looking at stuff inside. I have a led daylight lamp and it shines light
against the white wall. I then compared it to my Ultravid 7x42 against the
white light. The Ultravid looked white while the Meostar looked slightly off white
with subtle yellow tint , more like cream color.

Maybe this weekend I'll compare the FL with Swaro CL on that same wall.
GG - Certainly sounds more scientific than dennis' patented mountain goat test ! lol





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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 11:38   #89
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
GG - Certainly sounds more scientific than dennis' patented mountain goat test ! lol





Chosun
:) when I conduct my 'object scientific test' this weekend, I'll imagine
I'm looking at goats 🐐
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 13:36   #90
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
GG - Certainly sounds more scientific than dennis' patented mountain goat test ! lol





Chosun
That is Rocky Mountain Sheep NOT Mountain Goat's! With all this talk about green tint and dust in Zeiss binocular's. I think I will keep my EDG's.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 13:43   #91
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Is this from Museum of Natural History in NYC?

BTW the "Zeiss Nature blog" claims the following:
Quote:
The optics in the updated binoculars have not changed, which means you still get the amazing razor sharp image, depth of focus, wide field of view, and stunning close focus. They are designed to perform particularly well in lower light conditions and that’s a feature I noticed watching wonderful short-eared owls coming into roost recently near home.
https://blogs.zeiss.com/sports-optic...ss-victory-sf/

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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 16:03   #92
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That is Rocky Mountain Sheep NOT Mountain Goat's! With all this talk about green tint and dust in Zeiss binocular's. I think I will keep my EDG's.
Dennis - if you are going to test the colour fidelity of the SF's (or any bin for that matter) then you are going to need to sight the 'Rocky Mountain Goat' with it's 'pure' 'white' 'reference' coat ....
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mountain_goat
I suggest you also take some corned silverside, mashed potatoes, and green beans (see my post#8 for a pic) with you too when judging the SF's. Mash the beans into a paste and mix an even quantity of the mashed potatoes, and lightly smear a very thin veneer of the resulting mix over a slice of silverside. This will be identical to the colour you see through the SF's. Compare back and forth with the RMG {Actually I think the RMG should be Zeiss's new model - that would be 'smart')

...... dang - now I've gone and made myself hungry again !






Chosun

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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 17:03   #93
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Originally Posted by Chosun Juan View Post
I suggest you also take some corned silverside, mashed potatoes, and green beans (see my post#8 for a pic) with you too when judging the SF's. Mash the beans into a paste and mix an even quantity of the mashed potatoes, and lightly smear a very thin veneer of the resulting mix over a slice of silverside. This will be identical to the colour you see through the SF's. Compare back and forth with the RMG {Actually I think the RMG should be Zeiss's new model - that would be 'smart')

Chosun
Nah!
Take a beef short rib. Slice it off the bone and put it in a cast iron pot with chopped sweet potato and leek, cover it with a good beer, put on the lid and bring it up to room temperature on the hob then put it in a pre-heated fan oven at 125 deg C for one hour. Then up the temperature to 145 deg C and leave for another hour. Serve with browned potatoes. The beef will be falling apart, tender and tasty.

No need for binos or red-green hams.

Lee
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 17:51   #94
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Quote:
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Henry, I tried this myself today, and photographed two binoculars I had in my office at work. It was really work avoidance, rather than intense, 'scientific' inquiry... I did see a difference between the background and the view through the glass of the binoculars, and logic dictates that there absolutely should be one...

Anyways, going back to the thread where you posted multiple versions of the view(s) through an FL and an HT. My question is this: Even though you could show a difference through photography in value and color (which there should be), I don't recalll you ever making critical remarks about the HT or the FL with regard to their color fidelity when you looked through them. Is that correct? I know the elephant in the room is the SF, but you spent a fair amount of energy to demonstrate/prove a difference photographically. Do you actually SEE a difference with your own eyes when you're out birding with the FL or the HT?

-Bill
Hey Bill,

I returned the 8x54 HT in those photos for reasons unrelated to its color bias. The slight green cast in the 8x56 FL is visible if I look for it, but I don't often notice it. I have a considerably greener binocular, an old CZJ 8x50 Octarem (see Post 187 in the linked thread). The color bias in that one is too green to ignore.

I'm hoping somebody with an SF and a smart phone will follow your lead and try making some test photos.

Henry

Last edited by henry link : Saturday 14th March 2020 at 18:03.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 18:04   #95
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Nah!
Take a beef short rib. Slice it off the bone and put it in a cast iron pot with chopped sweet potato and leek, cover it with a good beer, put on the lid and bring it up to room temperature on the hob then put it in a pre-heated fan oven at 125 deg C for one hour. Then up the temperature to 145 deg C and leave for another hour. Serve with browned potatoes. The beef will be falling apart, tender and tasty.

No need for binos or red-green hams.

Lee
Lee - are you sure that's hot enough to properly cook it ?...... sounds like it will be 'still mooing' to me !

Introducing 'blue' steaks into the equation is really going to confuse things and definitely won't bear any resemblance to the SF's view !






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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 18:53   #96
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The Rocky Mountain sheep in post #90 has been watching too much T.V. judging by its eyes.

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B.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 18:54   #97
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Lee - are you sure that's hot enough to properly cook it ?...... sounds like it will be 'still mooing' to me !

Chosun
Absolutely.It will be cooked medium not rare because 2 hours is quite long enough even though the first hour is a gentle heat that tenderisers the beef. Trust me, I have cooked this many times and there is no Swaro Blue or Leica Red, only your smile of satisfaction.

Lee
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 19:35   #98
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Lee - are you sure that's hot enough to properly cook it ?...... sounds like it will be 'still mooing' to me !
Introducing 'blue' steaks into the equation is really going to confuse things and definitely won't bear any resemblance to the SF's view !
Chosun
Has to reach 75 degrees centigrade to kill off harmful bacteria......

Cook it, not cremate it CJ.
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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 21:10   #99
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Just got done comparing Swaro CL 8x30 and FL 8x32 for color.
First I looked through the binos as normal at white led light against
off white wall. It was difficult to see any difference but I got the sense
the CL may have been a touch whiter. Then I put a pure white paper
on the wall and still couldn't see a noticeable difference.

Then I began looking at my Bufflehead duck carving which has
pure white on its breast and sides. Still difficult , but I felt maybe the
CL was very very slightly whiter. But I also thought I saw super
subtle touch of pink in the CL.

So then I decided to look through the objective end of both bins side by side
like in Henry's test. There it was ... I could now see a noticeable color hue difference
side by side with the FL revealing a mild greenish hue. The CL was closer to the whitish
hue of the wall. Looking for a while I again think I noticed barely a hint of pink in the CL, but
I can't be certain. My eyes are tired.

Used the CL this morning. I haven't used it for some weeks now.
I do prefer the CL color presentation over the FL.
FL however does show more detail, has a wider FOV and is a little easier
with my glasses.

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Old Saturday 14th March 2020, 21:32   #100
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I checked and so far there's only one SF 10x42 new on eBay, from the UK.
But they're priced very high so I think it must be somebody who hasn't read this thread.

I was hoping for more variety of Zeiss binoculars at rock bottom prices.
Can anybody confirm the FL 7x42 has very poor colour too?
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