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Controversy over the RSPB going to start charging a £5.00 fee for car parking

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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 15:01   #1
IAN JAMES THOMPSON
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Controversy over the RSPB going to start charging a £5.00 fee for car parking

There’s been a lot of controversy about the RSPB going to start charging in the off peak season a £5.00 fee for car parking at South Stack Cliffs Reserve in Wales for non members of the RSPB as car parking at this RSPB reserve has always been free and local people are up in arms about this happening. It looks as though the local authority are going to support the idea of this new car park charge. I fully support the RSPB doing as it will then raise a lot of much needed funds for them. What do others on these forums feel about this? If you google you can find more information and articles about this new car park charge.
Ian.

Last edited by IAN JAMES THOMPSON : Friday 30th March 2018 at 15:25. Reason: Missed important information out.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 15:12   #2
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Which reserve?
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 15:22   #3
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Which reserve?
Sorry missed that out, I will edit. But it is South Stack Cliffs Car Park.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 15:43   #4
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For those that object, there is car parking near the lighthouse as far as I remember and I think it's free?

This move may result in that car park becoming over subscribed.


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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 16:44   #5
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Thereís been a lot of controversy about the RSPB going to start charging in the off peak season a £5.00 fee for car parking at South Stack Cliffs Reserve in Wales for non members of the RSPB as car parking at this RSPB reserve has always been free and local people are up in arms about this happening. It looks as though the local authority are going to support the idea of this new car park charge. I fully support the RSPB doing as it will then raise a lot of much needed funds for them. What do others on these forums feel about this? If you google you can find more information and articles about this new car park charge.
Ian.
The thing that is frightening is the local authority supporting the idea. They will probably get a cut but will be eyeing up fines...

They can also blame the RSPB for making the decision.

That said 'free' reserves with, to me, expensive parking (£5 is quite a lot) does sound a little silly even if is for a good cause. It seems that the whole charging for parking but free to members is a good way of encouraging membership without incurring huge marketing costs so quite clever in a way. My reservation, despite a potential membership boost, is that there will be a lot of non-bird 'loving' people in the ranks - who knows maybe it will enthuse them... I'm rambling and off to work.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 16:56   #6
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The thing that is frightening is the local authority supporting the idea. They will probably get a cut but will be eyeing up fines...

They can also blame the RSPB for making the decision.

That said 'free' reserves with, to me, expensive parking (£5 is quite a lot) does sound a little silly even if is for a good cause. It seems that the whole charging for parking but free to members is a good way of encouraging membership without incurring huge marketing costs so quite clever in a way. My reservation, despite a potential membership boost, is that there will be a lot of non-bird 'loving' people in the ranks - who knows maybe it will enthuse them... I'm rambling and off to work.
Well if you go and visit Englandís Lake District in Cumbria there are lots of National Trust Open Space Propertyís and the National Trust car parks are probably far more expensive but National Trust members get free parking, if they can manage to park in the peak season as car parks then in the Lake District are full and there are many more National Trust Car Parks than the RSPBís and the public that pay in those car parks donít complain and if The RSPB can encourage more non bird watchers as well, do you not think thatís a good idea as it might get more people interested in wildlife which would be a good thing.
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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 17:11   #7
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Well if you go and visit Englandís Lake District in Cumbria there are lots of National Trust Open Space Propertyís and the National Trust car parks are probably far more expensive but National Trust members get free parking, if they can manage to park in the peak season as car parks then in the Lake District are full and there are many more National Trust Car Parks than the RSPBís and the public that pay in those car parks donít complain and if The RSPB can encourage more non bird watchers as well, do you not think thatís a good idea as it might get more people interested in wildlife which would be a good thing.
Ian.
No, I think it will just stop occasional walkers and ramblers from visiting.


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Old Friday 30th March 2018, 18:22   #8
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According to this
https://www.dailypost.co.uk/news/nor...-park-14416915

The fee is £5 peak and £2.50 off peak for the parking and that its also a fixed fee per car without a duration attached. It also states that the RSPB has to lease the carpark from the local council.

So the council is likely supporting it because the fees will likely go into paying for the lease, which potentially means that the council can put up the lease fee to the RSPB, or at least maintain it at what it is (there's grounds that council could have pushed for a higher fee or that RSPB had been pushing for a lower fee). Of course this assumes there is an actual fee, the article makes no mention of if there is or not.



On the one hand a flat fee machine is likely cheap and easy to establish so its likely keeping costs down. That said without even the option of variation of prices for the duration of the visit its a pretty steep parking cost, eps for any who might only be spending a couple of hours there (based on most carparks charging £5 after a few hours). Even a simple grace period of "free for an hour" could work - although such systems work better in towns where people don't travel too far from the car - at reserves I can see it not working all that well.

I know that sites around this way and in Norfolk had similar outcry when fees were being put into place at some outdoor areas. One response was to install a car scan which scans numberplates upon entry. You can then go to the terminal when you arrive and buy a ticket as normal for however long; or you can buy a ticket at the end and the machine will adjust the price based on the actual duration of time you've been in the car park. That allows for very cheap rates for short duration stays and a scaling into higher rates for very long stays. The machines also take card (some I think) which is good since these days few people carry much in the way of coinage (if I turned up at a site with a £5 carpark charge in cash chances are that would be half to most of the money in the wallet gone).


I can see why they'd do it, membership of RSPB wavering the cost is a valid move and this might be them trying to push both visitors and locals into joining up. Even if many locals use the site they might not be supporting members of the RSPB so this would try to push them into joining. That said I recall the town centre where I am when they took away the free hour parking - the carpark emptied and local shops suffered a significant loss of footfall and sales - and that was only charging £0.60 for an hour.
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Old Wednesday 4th April 2018, 18:36   #9
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Has anyone heard whether Anglesey County Council has made a decision on a car park charge today for South Stack Cliffs. It was due to be discussed today. I’ve tried googling to no avail.
Ian.
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Old Monday 23rd April 2018, 20:16   #10
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Hi

as an Anglesey resident I thought I'd make a comment as there does seem to be some misconceptions on this matter, if you don't mind I'll just start with a little history.

In 1948 the majority of the land where the reserve sits was given to the local council with the intention that it should be a place where the public could freely enjoy the countryside. In 1977 the RSPB obtained an initial 21 year lease for 750 acres, this lease was renewed in 1998 when £150 was paid for the 21 year lease of that 750 acres.

The RSPB own a very small portion of the land there, basically the cafe, a small area of surrounding land and the adjoining car park (the 2 other car parks that are going to be charged for are on leased land), Ellins Tower and a plot of land further down the road. The local council will not receive any funding from the proposed charges, in fact the proposal may contravene some of the lease conditions.

The reserve is only part of the reason that the area is visited, there is obviously the lighthouse, this has a very small car park (6 spaces I think) that will probably be blocked by people avoiding the charge. There is also the archaeological site and the various coastal walks. Even by their own figures the RSPB concede that it is a fairly small percentage of people who visit for the reserve itself.

The planning committee deferred a decision until after a site visit to assess the impact, this took place last week and the next planning meeting will take place at the start of May. They will not be making a decision based on the cost itself, the planning application is for the installation of parking meters and signage, however they do have to take into account any knock on effects of the plan. Anyone who has visited will know that the road to the RSPB cafe and the lighthouse is a pretty typical country road, i.e. it is not very wide. If the installation of meters could cause the road side to be used for parking then that may cause safety issues for pedestrians, other road users plus problems for the people who live in that area.

Hope you don't mind me pointing this out, if you have any other questions please feel free to ask
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2018, 19:26   #11
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Well the local council have rejected the RSPB’s proposal for a car park charge of £5.00 per car for non members of the RSPB, after strong local opposition to the plans. I actually supported the idea of the proposal. But the RSPB have many enemy’s in this local area of Wales.
Ian.
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2018, 19:49   #12
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Well the local council have rejected the RSPBís proposal for a car park charge of £5.00 per car for non members of the RSPB, after strong local opposition to the plans. I actually supported the idea of the proposal. But the RSPB have many enemyís in this local area of Wales.
Ian.
That's enemies (and apostrophising plurals is a hanging offence even if enemys was the correct usage)..... in addition to which the previous poster has clarified good and sensible reasons for not allowing the change in this particular case. Its not about enmity.

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Old Thursday 3rd May 2018, 19:53   #13
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That's enemies (and apostrophising plurals is a hanging offence even if enemys was the correct usage)..... in addition to which the previous poster has clarified good and sensible reasons for not allowing the change in this particular case. Its not about enmity.

John
Well I differ with you as many locals and I mean many, have sparked hatred against the RSPB on the RSPBís North Wales Facebook website.
Ian.
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2018, 20:15   #14
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Well I differ with you as many locals and I mean many, have sparked hatred against the RSPB on the RSPBís North Wales Facebook website.
Maybe because they wanted to charge a fee for parking on leased land that was originally given so that 'the public could freely enjoy' that land?

Maintaining local relations is clearly also an important element to successful conservation - not always about just getting extra money.
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Old Thursday 3rd May 2018, 20:54   #15
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Perhaps it would be a more sustainable step to invest in a shuttle bus service a few times a day from Holyhead (or if there already is one, improving the service). Increasing accessibility for non drivers and further
encouraging the use of public transport for those that do drive sends a much more ethos appropriate message as well as tackling the issue of parking. The RSPB could then offer free entry for those that use the shuttle, members and non members alike. Just a thought ...oh wait a minute, do they already do that?

Since the changes coming in under amendments to the Data Protection Act, its going to be much harder to run ‘in house’ campaigns, contact existing members and for charities to raise money in traditional ways, ie mail out to members, requests to renew membership etc. The RSPB could be impacted quite significantly so will have to find ever more creative ways to finance its conservation work, including looking at how reserves might maintain economic viability. Conservation aint cheap and human appreciation of the benefits are, imo, secondary to the primary benefits for wildlife.

Sometimes I think theres a risk of loosing sight of the value of the woods when we complain too much about the cost of a tree.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 12:54   #16
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Well I differ with you as many locals and I mean many, have sparked hatred against the RSPB on the RSPBís North Wales Facebook website.
Ian.
If you're going to take Facebook seriously there's no more to be said.

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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 13:04   #17
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Perhaps it would be a more sustainable step to invest in a shuttle bus service a few times a day from Holyhead (or if there already is one, improving the service). Increasing accessibility for non drivers and further
encouraging the use of public transport for those that do drive sends a much more ethos appropriate message as well as tackling the issue of parking. The RSPB could then offer free entry for those that use the shuttle, members and non members alike. Just a thought ...oh wait a minute, do they already do that?

Since the changes coming in under amendments to the Data Protection Act, its going to be much harder to run ‘in house’ campaigns, contact existing members and for charities to raise money in traditional ways, ie mail out to members, requests to renew membership etc. The RSPB could be impacted quite significantly so will have to find ever more creative ways to finance its conservation work, including looking at how reserves might maintain economic viability. Conservation aint cheap and human appreciation of the benefits are, imo, secondary to the primary benefits for wildlife.

Sometimes I think theres a risk of loosing sight of the value of the woods when we complain too much about the cost of a tree.
Not true,
all they have to do is get written consent from each member to receive mail shots etc as the African Bird Club have just done with their members

Just to add that you need an apostrophe in 'there's' and It's 'losing' not 'loosing',

Shuttle service could be a good idea but maybe seasonal?




A

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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 14:49   #18
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I've said it on another post elsewhere, but due to the new data protection laws the RSPB is looking at trying to save £11 million this year, hence their sudden decision to start charging in all car parks where they can, also, if any of you look at conservation job listings, you'll have noticed that there have been next to no summer warden posts/information warden posts and the like - all down to the money saving measures. Normally there are masses of such posts being advertised, often with many similar posts at the more 'flagship' reserves. This also means there will be far fewer staff on reserves this summer and probably beyond to engage with birders and other visitors to spread the word about the RSPB and conservation in general.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 16:35   #19
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[quote=Farnboro John;3713809]If you're going to take Facebook seriously there's no more to be said.

John[/QUOTE
Again you are saying something without any evidence. You could say things about any public forum including Bird Forum.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 16:49   #20
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I've said it on another post elsewhere, but due to the new data protection laws the RSPB is looking at trying to save £11 million this year, hence their sudden decision to start charging in all car parks where they can, also, if any of you look at conservation job listings, you'll have noticed that there have been next to no summer warden posts/information warden posts and the like - all down to the money saving measures. Normally there are masses of such posts being advertised, often with many similar posts at the more 'flagship' reserves. This also means there will be far fewer staff on reserves this summer and probably beyond to engage with birders and other visitors to spread the word about the RSPB and conservation in general.
Why can't they just ask members for various permissions instead of making excuses and taking an easy way out? Charging for car parks insn't 'saving' money, it's generating more revenue.

Where is this £11 mill figure coming from, do you mean it's lost income from data sales?

Here is what I got this week from the African Bird Club, why are the RSPB making such a fuss, why can't they just do the same?

'Dear Member
On 25th May 2018 new data protection regulations will come into effect in the United Kingdom – The General Data Protection Regulation – GDPR. ABC is not exempt from GDPR and we take very seriously the way we use your personal data and the amount of information we send to you. While the GDPR does not inhibit most of the ways we currently use your personal data, for example to send you Bulletins, there is doubt over whether we can continue to provide you with information about ABC’s activities.

The purpose of this note therefore is to ask you for your positive consent to ABC making any contact with you other than for the administration and fulfilment of your membership. If you are happy that we continue to get in touch with you with information and newsletters about announcements and events for example, could you please tick the relevant boxes below and return the form by e-mail or post.



A

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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 16:56   #21
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I've said it on another post elsewhere, but due to the new data protection laws the RSPB is looking at trying to save £11 million this year, hence their sudden decision to start charging in all car parks where they can, also, if any of you look at conservation job listings, you'll have noticed that there have been next to no summer warden posts/information warden posts and the like - all down to the money saving measures. Normally there are masses of such posts being advertised, often with many similar posts at the more 'flagship' reserves. This also means there will be far fewer staff on reserves this summer and probably beyond to engage with birders and other visitors to spread the word about the RSPB and conservation in general.
Well I've just checked the jobs vacancies on the RSPB website and there still seems plenty of summer warden jobs to apply for. As many as in previous years.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 17:13   #22
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[quote=IAN JAMES THOMPSON;3713868]
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If you're going to take Facebook seriously there's no more to be said.

John[/QUOTE
Again you are saying something without any evidence. You could say things about any public forum including Bird Forum.
Ian.
On the contrary my wife (and her wider family) are Facebook users in the chavest way: I am entirely familiar with the sort of rubbish that is routinely produced on the site and in particular the way morons will jump on a moving bandwagon, especially if it offers a chance to be vicous and spiteful.

If you can't tell the difference between FB and BF then again, there is no more to be said....

John
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 17:20   #23
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[quote=Farnboro John;3713888]
Quote:
Originally Posted by IAN JAMES THOMPSON View Post

On the contrary my wife (and her wider family) are Facebook users in the chavest way: I am entirely familiar with the sort of rubbish that is routinely produced on the site and in particular the way morons will jump on a moving bandwagon, especially if it offers a chance to be vicous and spiteful.

If you can't tell the difference between FB and BF then again, there is no more to be said....

John
Again you just quoting something without any evidence and been rather agresive about this.
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 17:32   #24
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In line with my previous post, this seems very simple to me and the RSPB are just milking it

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/av/technol...ology-explaine



A
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Old Friday 4th May 2018, 18:03   #25
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[quote=IAN JAMES THOMPSON;3713891]
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Again you are just quoting something without any evidence and being rather aggressive about this.
Ian.
OK: governments across the world are concerned about cyber-bullying on places like Facebook. That's evidence of large-scale wrongdoing on Facebook which is in the public domain, so hardly needs to be mentioned in every conversation about the subject. The behaviour you describe from North Wales, on Facebook, is basically cyber-bullying by locals against RSPB, corporately and/or personally against staff - obviously as a Facebook-phobe I've no experience of this, but you say it's there so fair enough. In my own experience (vicariously via my wife's account) I have seen sufficient examples of similar behaviour to be convinced that there is a problem, and if governments regard it as an international problem then I can accept that. To me that adds up to sufficient evidence to justify taking no notice on an intellectual level of bad behaviour on Facebook, and certainly not supposing it to be a representation of the population at large.

And I've fixed your sentence for you.

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