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Marsh/Willow or Coal tit? Staffs, UK (1 Viewer)

FHDA

Member
Not the best pics unfortunately but I would appreciate any help ID'ing this bird - I don't think it is a Coal as it lacks the white nape but am willing to be corrected. I thought maybe a marsh tit? Might be tricky as it didn't turn round to show its front! Thanks for any help.
 

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Hi Ken, thanks for the quick reply. Would be nice to have something a bit different visiting. I have seen it a few times since so if I can get a better pic I will post again. Cheers
 
Second pic seems to show the white spot at the base of the upper mandible considered to be the definitive feature for iding marsh tit. But the photos aren't great. If you're able to get a good one of its bill and it has this spot then it's Marsh.
 
Hi Fern, thanks for replying. I appreciate the pics aren't the best so I've moved the feeders around and set the tripod up, hopefully I will get something a bit better if it comes back. If it makes any difference our garden backs onto a small area of deciduous wood. The area, including the wood, is damp as we have a high water table
 
If it makes any difference our garden backs onto a small area of deciduous wood. The area, including the wood, is damp as we have a high water table
Damp woodland is prime willow tit habitat - but as there are many parts of the country with damp woodland and no willow tits, its not definitive.
FWIW my first impression was a willow tit - cap looks dull, wings seem to have a pale panel (although this is often more distinctive) - but I defer to others on the diagnostic bill features.
 
Second pic seems to show the white spot at the base of the upper mandible considered to be the definitive feature for iding marsh tit. But the photos aren't great. If you're able to get a good one of its bill and it has this spot then it's Marsh.

The spot should be on the lower mandible and nowhere near as well defined as this. The mark on this bird seems to be between the cutting edges so maybe food stuff?

My impression is Willow Tit, habitat isn't much of a clue, I live in a damp, marshy forest in Russia and Willlow Tit is by far the commoner of the two


andy
 
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Not now no.....I can't see it on many birds that are supposed Marsh anyway, lump em....:t:

Made me re-read this,

http://birdingfrontiers.com/2012/03/23/marsh-or-willow-tit/

I thought the spot was at the lower bill base but is on upper and can be over both on well marked birds can also be very hard very to see.

I wouldn't have expected the white spot to be so obvious on a shot like this.

A
 
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To me andy, the bib area looks a 'reasonable size', the cap appears to be fairly 'extensive' towards the nape. the cheeks seem to be 'mostly' white, and there is discernible pale edging to the tertials and secondaries, the head/neck (1st image) to my eye looks bigger, rather than smaller, with a mostly dull black cap....on balance I'm still in the P.montanus camp.

Cheers
 
Thanks again for the responses, the amount of knowledge on here is impressive! Will post back with more pics if/when it comes back.
 
Managed to get a few more pics. Any further opinions appreciated.
 

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Is that the same bird?

No white spot on the bill (perhaps it was food in the first pic?) a big, pale wing panel and little contrast in the ear covert / cheek area?

This should be a Willow Tit?


Andy
 
I assume it's the same bird although as the pics were taken a few days apart it might be a different one. It behaves in the same way but it is entirely possible it's a new bird. Would it be usual for Marsh and Willow tits to be in the same area? You might be right about it being food in the first pic, it doesn't seem to eat at the feeder and prefers to make very short but repeated visits and take seed away with it. The other tits seem to spend longer at the feeder on each visit.
 
Would it be usual for Marsh and Willow tits to be in the same area?

Both are becoming increasingly rare in the UK - for this reason alone it is not very usual for them to be in the same area. However, where both still occur, they can attend the same feeders.

I live outside the UK and in an area where both are common - I have two feeding stations. At the first (basically gardens) I only get Marsh Tits regularly, with Willow Tit just very occasionally in winter. At the second though (flood forest), Marsh Tit is still the more common, but Willow Tit relatively common, more so in some years. Last winter, there were 27 Marsh Tits and eight Willow Tits at my feeders in total, both often present at the same time. Currently, in this very early winter period, I have six Marsh Tits at my feeders and five Willow Tits.
 
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