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Renaming all North American Birds (1 Viewer)

Seriously, I think we can all agree that some of the old names were better than their replacements, but some of the new names are also good, and sometimes better than the old ones.

Ideally a name should be concise, descriptive and mellifluous. Rosy Starling scores over Rose-coloured on two counts and draws on the other. I would hold that e.g. Rosy Gull would also score over Ross’s Gull on two counts.

Edit: I was of course mainly talking in a UK context here.
 
Seriously, I think we can all agree that some of the old names were better than their replacements, but some of the new names are also good, and sometimes better than the old ones.

Ideally a name should be concise, descriptive and mellifluous. Rosy Starling scores over Rose-coloured on two counts and draws on the other. I would hold that e.g. Rosy Gull would also score over Ross’s Gull on two counts.

Edit: I was of course mainly talking in a UK context here.

Well, in a UK context you could have the best (or worst) of both worlds by calling it a Wossy Gull. o:D

John
 
It should be renamed in German in honor of the late Chancellor Helmut Kohl. Kohlmeise is bossy in behaviour, well known, well liked and also the heaviest of all native Paridae.

Some might argue that the biggest tit is currently in office in another country altogether ...
 
Well, in a UK context you could have the best (or worst) of both worlds by calling it a Wossy Gull. o:D

John
Surely you mean Wussy Gull.

(Which is probably what they look like when encountering Ivory Gulls ;))

Edit: New question - what size of skua can stand up to an Ivory Gull?
 
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Oldsquaw was deemed derogatory, yes, so changed to the relatively boring European 'Long-tailed Duck'. For good reason though apparently - see eg https://ourfinefeatheredfriends.com/tag/oldsquaw/
Thanks – here's some very selective quoting from that piece:
the term “Long-tailed Duck” is sexist on the account that only the males possess the namesake long tail feathers that provide the inspiration for the common name.
I had thought about bringing that up in this thread as well, stating that this is one of the reasons why there are so few female birders.

The iconoclastic bloggers have not thought about this yet, based on their "Scarlet Piranga" and "Black-capped Warbler". Who's willing to excuse them of sexism?

(I am again not being serious).
 
Thanks – here's some very selective quoting from that piece:

I had thought about bringing that up in this thread as well, stating that this is one of the reasons why there are so few female birders.

The iconoclastic bloggers have not thought about this yet, based on their "Scarlet Piranga" and "Black-capped Warbler". Who's willing to excuse them of sexism?

(I am again not being serious).

in the US it's more like 50% (or even more?) female birders.

Black-and-white Warbler is well known as being one of the most inclusive bird names around.
 
In my opinion, the problem with naming a bird after a person is that it is not descriptive. Does that really matter? To me it does. The entire point for giving names to things is so that we can communicate about them. And communication is always aided by simplicity and clarity.

If I refer to a Wilson’s Warbler, and you don’t know anything about birds, the name is mostly meaningless. You would know that it is a bird that warbles and was named after someone named Wilson. But if the bird was called a Black-capped Yellow Warbler, for example, you’d at least have some kind of basic mental picture of it. A descriptive name allows one to use less words to convey the same useful information:

“I saw a Wilson’s Warbler, which is a yellowish warbler with a black cap.”

“I saw a Black-capped Yellow Warbler.”

(yes, I know, this does not help with the female, but 50% is better than 0%)

Knowing that someone named Wilson had this bird named for them is not useful information in the field. And brevity is to be valued, IMO. As Strunk and White said: “Omit needless words. Vigorous writing is concise.” I would amend that and say "Vigourous communication is concise." It may not seem like much to have to remember that “Wilson’s” means “yellow with a black cap” but when faced with learning large numbers of new birds, it starts to add up. For example, when my wife and I lived in Asia, we crossed paths with many of the infamous Phylloscopus warblers – a large genus that presents all kinds of identification challenges. It did not help that this group includes many honorific epithets. Question: What about these names might help you learn how to identify them and set each species apart? Answer: Absolutely Nothing.

Hume’s leaf warbler, Brooks’s leaf warbler, Pallas’s leaf warbler, Tytler’s leaf warbler, Radde’s warbler, Tickell’s leaf warbler, Ijima’s leaf warbler, Laura’s woodland warbler, Whistler’s warbler, Bianchi’s warbler, Alström’s warbler, Martens’s warbler, Blyth’s leaf warbler, Claudia’s leaf warbler, Hartert’s leaf warbler, Kloss’s leaf warbler, Davison’s leaf warbler....Clear as mud.

Bird ID can be daunting enough, both for newcomers, and for experienced birders in new locations learning lots of new species. It can only help birders do their jobs better if the nomenclature is more descriptive. It certainly cannot hurt.

Most, but not all, honorifics reference an ornithologist whose work we wish to celebrate or honor. This is a fine sentiment, and that can still be done, in the latin designation, as is already the case with many birds, such as the Yellow billed Loon (Gavia adamsii). If you are a fan of honorific names, would you prefer that this be called Adams’s Loon? Would it be "better"? If you answer "no, we merely want stability" then how do you feel about the Magnificent Hummingbird 2017 split, when it was felt necessary to dispense with that moniker all together and to honor Rivoli, passing up a chance to have a descriptive name (that referenced the gorget color perhaps)? Granted, "Magnificent" isn't the best descriptor either, even though the bird is pretty damn magnificent - but so are so many others! - but it's an example of where nobody in the honorifi camp apparently cried foul about "instability" or "loss of preservation of tradition."

If one thing is clear, though, it is that my position of wanting illustrative names (and which has nothing to do with anything political at all) is quite the minority.

Thanks for reading. And please, if you can make a compelling argument for why honorifics are a wonderful idea in how we name animals, I am all ears.
 
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From here on out, if people want to put a ban on making common names which honor folks, I am 100% fine with it.

My number one concern is that of stability. Changing common names without a good "reason" (e.g., a split or lump; confusion with another bird with the same common name, or just problematic due to racism/sexism) can lead to confusion and make communication difficult between birders. If you change Wilson's warbler to "black-capped Yellow Warbler", Wilson's won't go away...Entire generations of birders have learned that name and will continue to use it, and the name will continue to be present in older books and references, even if all newer editions make the adoption (Not guaranteed). Now multiply this by EVERY SINGLE required name change to get rid of honorifics. It would make communication in birding a mess for an entire generation.

And of course honorifics are just the tip of the iceberg. If we are worried about confusing new birders...whoo boy. You have birds whose names include archaic language (flammulated, cinereous, rufescent), field marks not actually discernible in the field (Ring-necked Duck, Red-bellied Woodpecker, etc), birds that share names with completely unrelated birds (all the various flycatchers and warblers), and birds which references locations or habitats they are not normally associated with (Prairie Warbler, Connecticut Warbler, Muscovy Duck). Changing all of these names would cause even more chaos.

As for WHY they exist anyway? Well the Phylloscopus warblers are the perfect example. They all look alike, and it can be hard to think of a meaningful accurate name to reflect there differences. So you trot out the lazy tactic of naming after someone. Even if you didn't name them after someone,do you think keeping track of all of them would be much easier?
 
Hume’s leaf warbler, Brooks’s leaf warbler, Pallas’s leaf warbler, Tytler’s leaf warbler, Radde’s warbler, Tickell’s leaf warbler, Ijima’s leaf warbler, Laura’s woodland warbler, Whistler’s warbler, Bianchi’s warbler, Alström’s warbler, Martens’s warbler, Blyth’s leaf warbler, Claudia’s leaf warbler, Hartert’s leaf warbler, Kloss’s leaf warbler, Davison’s leaf warbler....Clear as mud.
Inornate Warbler for Hume's never caught on and I think Izu Leaf Warbler is a better name for this island endemic than Ijima's Leaf Warbler.
Good luck with coming up with descriptive names for all the Golden-spectacled types (Limestone Leaf-Warbler is a nice example that it can be done).
I am still annoyed by the switch to Pallas's Gull though: Great Black-headed Gull is a fantastic name for a fantastic bird.
 
Inornate Warbler for Hume's never caught on and I think Izu Leaf Warbler is a better name for this island endemic than Ijima's Leaf Warbler.
Good luck with coming up with descriptive names for all the Golden-spectacled types (Limestone Leaf-Warbler is a nice example that it can be done).
I am still annoyed by the switch to Pallas's Gull though: Great Black-headed Gull is a fantastic name for a fantastic bird.

Isn't inornatus Yellow-browed Warbler? Not that THAT English name is uniquely descriptive for any phyllosc, either.
 
I am still annoyed by the switch to Pallas's Gull though: Great Black-headed Gull is a fantastic name for a fantastic bird.

Absolutely! It's one of the few gull names that is an accurate description of the bird, and there's little danger we're going to forget Pallas given the other cool species he has to his name.
 
From here on out, if people want to put a ban on making common names which honor folks, I am 100% fine with it.

My number one concern is that of stability. Changing common names without a good "reason" (e.g., a split or lump; confusion with another bird with the same common name, or just problematic due to racism/sexism) can lead to confusion and make communication difficult between birders. If you change Wilson's warbler to "black-capped Yellow Warbler", Wilson's won't go away...Entire generations of birders have learned that name and will continue to use it, and the name will continue to be present in older books and references, even if all newer editions make the adoption (Not guaranteed). Now multiply this by EVERY SINGLE required name change to get rid of honorifics. It would make communication in birding a mess for an entire generation.

And of course honorifics are just the tip of the iceberg. If we are worried about confusing new birders...whoo boy. You have birds whose names include archaic language (flammulated, cinereous, rufescent), field marks not actually discernible in the field (Ring-necked Duck, Red-bellied Woodpecker, etc), birds that share names with completely unrelated birds (all the various flycatchers and warblers), and birds which references locations or habitats they are not normally associated with (Prairie Warbler, Connecticut Warbler, Muscovy Duck). Changing all of these names would cause even more chaos.

As for WHY they exist anyway? Well the Phylloscopus warblers are the perfect example. They all look alike, and it can be hard to think of a meaningful accurate name to reflect there differences. So you trot out the lazy tactic of naming after someone. Even if you didn't name them after someone,do you think keeping track of all of them would be much easier?

Thanks for the reply. I agree it would present instability now; I think future generations would be thankful to have better nomenclature, though. Can the nomenclature be perfect? No. And you give lots of reasons why. Can it be better? Yes, I think so.

And we have already been doing some of these name changes, and it has not been a disaster at all. For example, my old Peterson Western guide that I grew up on has a Rufous-backed Robin. Happily we have changed that - and did the right thing with almost all the Turdus thrushes that had the unfortunate robin moniker in the past. Hopefully we do that with our "robin" too at some point. If we can fix Rufous-backed and Clay-colored, why not?

As for the Phylloscopus, I'd offer that some species breeding habitat, vocalizations, and behaviors would be enough to at least improve some of them; Chiffchaff is a nice example. (I suppose I should take that up as a challenge to put my money where my mouth is and actually propose how I might rename them... :) )
 
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Most, but not all, honorifics reference an ornithologist whose work we wish to celebrate or honor. This is a fine sentiment, and that can still be done, in the latin designation, as is already the case with many birds, such as the Yellow billed Loon (Gavia adamsii). If you are a fan of honorific names, would you prefer that this be called Adams’s Loon?

No, always been happy with White-billed Diver, which is more accurate. :t:

John
 
Except Pallas's Gull. Which was and always should have remained an appropriate four-word name: Great Black-headed Gull.

(It's tempting to use every single one of the emojis available on my right to accompany the above statement of fact, but I shall resist that temptation and leave each to their own...)

I see that Clements taxonomy made this change around 2011 going from ver 6.5 to ver 6.6.

Here is the IOC page that announced their version of this change in 2008, but there is no explanation as to why, and it does not look like a taxonomy (split/lump) change. Just a name change:

https://www.worldbirdnames.org/updates/archives/english-names-v1/

Anybody know what prompted it?
 
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Thanks for the reply. I agree it would present instability now; I think future generations would be thankful to have better nomenclature, though. Can the nomenclature be perfect? No. And you give lots of reasons why. Can it be better? Yes, I think so.

And we have already been doing some of these name changes, and it has not been a disaster at all. For example, my old Peterson Western guide that I grew up on has a Rufous-backed Robin. Happily we have changed that - and did the right thing with almost all the Turdus thrushes that had the unfortunate robin moniker in the past. Hopefully we do that with our "robin" too at some point. If we can fix Rufous-backed and Clay-colored, why not?

Well...Rufous-backed Robin is still...Rufous-backed Robin. Clay-colored and White-throated did change, although I vaguely recall that might have to do with them already being known as "thrush" in places anyway.
 
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