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Swarovski - odd business policy - near point

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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:20   #126
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I entirely agree that the NL offers real improvement, most notably the increased FoV but also in ergonomics. My only point is that these were only enough to justify a modest price increase over the EL, so Swaro made the business decision to despec the EL to avoid having two nearly equally priced alphas.
Had Swaro been able to make the NL dramatically better than the EL, they could have shifted the entire price structure upward, with a preeminent NL at around $4000, the EL at around $3000 and the CL somewhere below that.
Achieving that was impossible, so they repositioned the EL by subtracting features, a very painful decision, as Dale has already noted.
I really can't see Swarovski keeping these three different model's in their top tier lineup. I mean they have the SLC, EL and now NL in all different sizes. I could see them dropping at least one line and I think it might be the EL's regardless of what they say. Why would they dumb the EL down to almost the close focus of the SLC which is a $1500.00 binocular now. As you say they don't want the EL cannibalizing sales from the NL. I think once they come out with the NL 8x32 the EL's will be gone.
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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:27   #127
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Well, suppose they just stopped production of the EL models and began marketing the new NL models?

Ed
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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:30   #128
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Perhaps the latest price drop on the ELs is to clear them out.
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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:32   #129
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... I think once they come out with the NL 8x32 the EL's will be gone.
Ok, so they could have retained the 8x32 EL and drop the others.

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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:36   #130
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Hey, I really don't care, and it's a good question why anyone else should. Why do you care?

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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:37   #131
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Well, suppose they just stopped production of the EL models and began marketing the new NL models?

Ed
Hello Ed,

Is not the NL price point a little too steep for many?

Stay safe,
Arthur
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Old Tuesday 7th July 2020, 23:56   #132
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Perhaps the latest price drop on the ELs is to clear them out.
That is why I think they are going to do.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 00:02   #133
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Hello Ed,

Is not the NL price point a little too steep for many?

Stay safe,
Arthur
Arthur,

Without the need to retool, restock, and repair the EL series (except for the 8x32 model, perhaps), the NLs might have been introduced at a lower price. New models always come at higher price, and as we know the economic pain is part of the ultimate pleasure. I mean, like, they are a lifetime investment after all.


Be well,
Ed
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 00:02   #134
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Hello Ed,

Is not the NL price point a little too steep for many?

Stay safe,
Arthur
The Zeiss SF is up there in the same ballpark and some of the spotters are $3K. I think a lot of people will pay for $3K for a top alpha binocular especially from Swarovski. Swarovski because of its reputation has the ability to succeed in the ultra-premium market. They own the premium optic market, especially in the US. Hunter's and birders will pay for what they think is the best and I don't think most will bat an eyelash at the $3K mark. Most consider it a lifetime purchase so averaged over 50 years it isn't that much. Hunter's spend a lot on their equipment probably more than birders with their expensive guns, scopes, ammo, guides, and most of the time spotters. IMO the longer close focus of the EL is not really an issue because realistically if you can afford to spend $2200.00 on a pair of binoculars you can most likely afford to spend another $800.00 and get the NL's with the closer focus and all the other upgrades. I know I would not buy the older EL's anyway.

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 13:02   #135
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Gee, Lee, do you really think they'd do that?

Ed
Well let's see what we have got here.

The price reduction of EL is because it would otherwise clash with NL, according to Swaro.

But the price reduction is on now.
Yet NL doesn't arrive until September assuming the promised availability date is kept.
Seems like Swaro wants to sell more EL than they might otherwise do, and, 'hello, whats this?' An increase in close focus distance of EL at some point in the future!
Add them together and we have the attraction of a current price reduction and a deterrent against waiting in the form of a specification down-grade by way of an increase in close focus distance in the future.

Draw your own conclusions

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 13:19   #136
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I googled the 8x32 EL and don't see much of a price drop.
I see a couple reputable stores have them for $1979 usd and others
at $2200. I'm taking about reputable dealers.
Is that a significant discount ? What was the prior price?
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 13:19   #137
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OK, I just tried to buy an 8x32 SV from a big retailer. Reasons to follow. Anyway, the site said "available in two to four months." Which means, I suppose, that the 8 x32mm NL is not far behind, and a new far-focusing EL is in the works.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I will bow out again.

Oh, and why I'd want a second 8x32mm SV? My wife commandeers the one I already have.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 14:35   #138
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Originally Posted by Troubador View Post
Well let's see what we have got here.

The price reduction of EL is because it would otherwise clash with NL, according to Swaro.

But the price reduction is on now.
Yet NL doesn't arrive until September assuming the promised availability date is kept.
Seems like Swaro wants to sell more EL than they might otherwise do, and, 'hello, whats this?' An increase in close focus distance of EL at some point in the future!
Add them together and we have the attraction of a current price reduction and a deterrent against waiting in the form of a specification down-grade by way of an increase in close focus distance in the future.

Draw your own conclusions

Lee
I think you've hit the nail on the head here and for me the chance to get a new pair of EL's form £1500 is too tempting and I'm biting in the next week or so.

The NL will still be around the £2000 mark for a while I'm after release

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 15:42   #139
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OK, I just tried to buy an 8x32 SV from a big retailer. Reasons to follow. Anyway, the site said "available in two to four months." Which means, I suppose, that the 8 x32mm NL is not far behind, and a new far-focusing EL is in the works.

And now, if you'll excuse me, I will bow out again.

Oh, and why I'd want a second 8x32mm SV? My wife commandeers the one I already have.
If an NL 8x32 is on the horizon it make's you wonder if you should wait for it or spring for the NL 8x42 in September. The NL 8x32 will probably have a 520-foot FOV!
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 15:51   #140
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If an NL 8x32 is on the horizon it make's you wonder if you should wait for it or spring for the NL 8x42 in September. The NL 8x32 will probably have a 520-foot FOV!
I'm seriously considering buying a Zeiss SF 8x32, I will do once I had one in hands and it is really as good as I hope for.

If Swaro has a wide angle NL32 in the make, they better announce it soon. If they don't I'll assume it's still some years away and will not wait for that.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 15:54   #141
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I'm seriously considering buying a Zeiss SF 8x32, I will do once I had one in hands and it is really as good as I hope for.

If Swaro has a wide angle NL32 in the make, they better announce it soon. If they don't I'll assume it's still some years away and will not wait for that.
At B&H the EL 8x32's are out of stock for 2 to 4 months. That probably means Swarovski has ceased production of them to make the NL 8x32. I will bet the NL 8x32 will be here in less than 6 months. Hang on a little longer!

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 17:43   #142
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Why would you buy a 8x32 NL when you have a cheaper and provably as good Zeiss 8x32 SF for less money?
Same for the 8 or 10x42 NL and 8.5 or 10x42 EL. Compare them first to the SF and you”ll probably end up with very marginal differences, except for the price compared to the NL, and the close focus compared to the EL, both in favour to the SF.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 17:54   #143
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We do not know what the price for the NL 8X32 will be, and if it is even coming out this year do we?
Looks like it is going to be blue and green on here for a while.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 17:59   #144
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Why would you buy a 8x32 NL when you have a cheaper and provably as good Zeiss 8x32 SF for less money?
In the UK the 8x32 SF is £2065, the NL 8x42 £2370, the EL SV 8x32 £1560, and the EL SV 8.5x42 used to be £2120 before the price cut. Therefore you would expect an eventual NL 8x32 to be around £1700–1800 if they adopt the same discount rate for 8x32 vs 8x42, and thus significantly cheaper than the 8x32 SF.

Now, I don't think Zeiss will be able to sustain their pricing. I switched my 8x32 SF preorder to the 8x42 NL for an extra £305, I doubt I am the only one. I was mostly interested in the 8x32 SF for the FOV, and the NL betters that.

I doubt they will drop the EL. More likely the SLC will be the one to go, although they can easily keep 3 lines for the $1500–$2000–$3000 price points since they have higher volume than Leica or Zeiss.

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 18:36   #145
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Why would you buy an 8x32 NL when you have a cheaper and provably as good Zeiss 8x32 SF for less money?
Same for the 8 or 10x42 NL and 8.5 or 10x42 EL. Compare them first to the SF and you” ll probably end up with very marginal differences, except for the price compared to the NL, and the close focus compared to the EL, both in favor of the SF.
You're probably right. I think the only advantage the NL will have over the new Zeiss SF will be a slightly bigger FOV and probably sharper edges. Zeiss SF's historically don't have quite as sharp of edges as Swarovski EL's but the new SF 8x32 could be different. The best thing to do would be to wait for the new SF and NL and compare them and see which one you like better. I already like the weight and size of SF 8x32 better than the NL 8x42. The SF 8x32 has a FOV of 467 feet versus the NL which is 477 feet. That is only 10 feet or a 2% larger FOV. If the Zeiss SF has sharp edges that is not huge.

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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 18:38   #146
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We do not know what the price for the NL 8X32 will be, and if it is even coming out this year do we?
Looks like it is going to be blue and green on here for a while.
I bet an NL 8x32 would be about $2400.00 to compete with the new Zeiss SF 8x32.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 18:54   #147
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In the UK the 8x32 SF is £2065, the NL 8x42 £2370, the EL SV 8x32 £1560, and the EL SV 8.5x42 used to be £2120 before the price cut. Therefore you would expect an eventual NL 8x32 to be around £1700–1800 if they adopt the same discount rate for 8x32 vs 8x42, and thus significantly cheaper than the 8x32 SF.

Now, I don't think Zeiss will be able to sustain their pricing. I switched my 8x32 SF preorder to the 8x42 NL for an extra £305, I doubt I am the only one. I was mostly interested in the 8x32 SF for the FOV, and the NL betters that.

I doubt they will drop the EL. More likely the SLC will be the one to go, although they can easily keep 3 lines for the $1500–$2000–$3000 price points since they have higher volume than Leica or Zeiss.
Why I think they will drop the EL when the NL comes out is because when Swarovski came out with the new EL Swarovision they dropped the older EL because it was to close to the new EL in performance. The SLC IMO is an entirely different animal than the EL's and a lot of people like them because they do represent a different choice without the flat field and RB that sometime's comes with the EL Swarovision and they are sold at a much lower price point. The SLC's let people get into a full-size Swaro for a lot less money than an EL.
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 20:04   #148
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In the UK the 8x32 SF is £2065, the NL 8x42 £2370, the EL SV 8x32 £1560, and the EL SV 8.5x42 used to be £2120 before the price cut. Therefore you would expect an eventual NL 8x32 to be around £1700–1800 if they adopt the same discount rate for 8x32 vs 8x42, and thus significantly cheaper than the 8x32 SF.

Now, I don't think Zeiss will be able to sustain their pricing. I switched my 8x32 SF preorder to the 8x42 NL for an extra £305, I doubt I am the only one. I was mostly interested in the 8x32 SF for the FOV, and the NL betters that.

I doubt they will drop the EL. More likely the SLC will be the one to go, although they can easily keep 3 lines for the $1500–$2000–$3000 price points since they have higher volume than Leica or Zeiss.
Some big ifs. There is no 8x32 NL, thus no pricing, no specs... and while you would expect the x42 NL to be great binoculars, I don’t quite understand how you switch from 8X32 to 8x42 without ever having seen them or compared them, and clearly without any specific goal to use them as you go from a lighter and less transmissive bin to a full-size bin. I would understand if you changed between 2 8x42 bins but for now...
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Old Wednesday 8th July 2020, 23:54   #149
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Some big ifs. There is no 8x32 NL, thus no pricing, no specs... and while you would expect the x42 NL to be great binoculars, I don’t quite understand how you switch from 8X32 to 8x42 without ever having seen them or compared them, and clearly without any specific goal to use them as you go from a lighter and less transmissive bin to a full-size bin. I would understand if you changed between 2 8x42 bins but for now...
You make a good point, the NL is not even out yet, so everyone here should just wait until it comes out for an evaluation. It may not have anything over
the Zeiss Victory SF, that will be the main competition and that is very stiff.

The 32mm models may well be out a year or more. So don't get excited.

Patience is a virtue, the first models of these new ones often have problems, we have seen that with all brands.

Jerry
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Old Thursday 9th July 2020, 00:20   #150
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Some big ifs. There is no 8x32 NL, thus no pricing, no specs... and while you would expect the x42 NL to be great binoculars, I don’t quite understand how you switch from 8X32 to 8x42 without ever having seen them or compared them, and clearly without any specific goal to use them as you go from a lighter and less transmissive bin to a full-size bin. I would understand if you changed between 2 8x42 bins but for now...
No kidding! I'm smiling here reading this stuff but please let's not inhibit the soothsayers from reading the tea leaves. I've read Nostradamus was a birder.
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